My performance shop is recommending I ditch the Walbros that came with my FR750 kit and reinstall the stockers with a dual BAP. I'd like to hear some opinions from you guys on this.
Much thanks.
Much thanks.
Stock w/ BAP vs Walbro
- Thread starter jchristena
- Start date
The stock pumps flow as much as a 255lph Walbro, so installing them is a waste of time. Stock pumps with a BAP and 72/80lb injectors is good for like 800+rwhp.
What are you trying to accomplish
I have a 20v Dual competition bap and 72's and have had some recent issues. I was actually thinking of going the opposite direction and installing some better pumps in a modified stock hat or just biting the bullet and going return. What was the reason they said to switch up your combo?
They didn't say much. Just that people had had some pinging issues w/ the Walbros. But, if there is no real benefit to switching back, I won't bother. This is the FRPP 750 kit btw. Just don't want to grenade the motor because the 'upgraded' pumps are inherently shitty.
Interesting. I'd like to know more about this as I am considering the FRPP 750 kit. I would think it should be almost bullet proof as they say that they have tested it etc. Whipple will even do a limited warranty for it ...
I'd like to hear others chime in about the pumps that are included in this kit.
Crowley
Took out my BaP and put these pumps in my 2010. No issues. Whipple 2.9 @ 18 lbs.
This topic is so important to us on the edge 700h.p. guys yet there are no clear answers. Most of us have no idea if we are safe running pumps or BAP with the limited returnless system. :??:
What is not clear? Stock pumps no BAP is good to 650-700rwhp depending on injectors/tune setup. Stock pumps with a 17.5V BAP is good to 800+ again depending. After 800, you really should invest in a proper return system anyway so what does it matter.
LOL, it is simple math folks. The OP was asking if the 255lph Walbros are any better than the stock pumps which are 240lph I believe. They are close enough that it makes almost no difference.
I have dozens of dyno graph's/logs showing stock fuel pumps with a 17.5v BAP in the 750-800+RWHP range.
Just wondering if they are so close why does FRPP offer them in that kit.
Back to the OPs subject, has there been issues w/ the pumps that come with the kit? I would think that FORD did a good bit of testing with these and they shouldn't be a problem. Does anyone know if there was a lot of failures?
Crowley
I can't get past smog inspection otherwise I would have done it right away. I hate being on the edge where if one pump goes funny it pops the motor.
Van@RevanRacing
Active Member
The FRPP kit gives you about 3% more fuel volume which is still not enough at 700 RWHP.
I've had other customers with the FRPP Hat, re-install OEM Hat and BAP and FP Duty Cycles are fixed.
The Walboro Pumps are a rotary style pump and work fine in return style systems. I have no idea why Ford offers this. They function fine to a certain power point which is something that has to be logged and monitored but the percentage gain isn't worth the effort or cost of the part.
Usually these are part of a 725 or 750 crank horsepower kit. Once you surpass that the FRPP Hat is maxed out.
I've had other customers with the FRPP Hat, re-install OEM Hat and BAP and FP Duty Cycles are fixed.
The Walboro Pumps are a rotary style pump and work fine in return style systems. I have no idea why Ford offers this. They function fine to a certain power point which is something that has to be logged and monitored but the percentage gain isn't worth the effort or cost of the part.
Usually these are part of a 725 or 750 crank horsepower kit. Once you surpass that the FRPP Hat is maxed out.
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With respect, I'm sure you will agree that "depending on injectors/tune" and "good to 800+ again depending" doesn't exactly add up to "simple math". Talk to five different tuners out there and you will likely get at least three different answers/recommendations. This makes a good case for sticking with someone like Van or Justin.
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Van said something that most are not realizing. When people relay their HP numbers, its at the rear wheels. All the kits you see are flywheel. 700 at the rear wheels is well over 800 at the flywheel. On the edge at the dyno is most likely lean on the street. Once a true load is placed on the motor fuel usage increases.
I've personally witnessed a supercharged camaro on the dyno with 85% of the fuel pump being used let go on the bridge through 5th gear maxing out the pumps. Always data log any tune in the real world.pumps are done at Paul's High Performance. I have seen a few threads about them and decided to just upgrade my fuel system. I brought a set and they reside on my shelf. If you need more than a BAP I would upgrade the system and be done with it. Just my 2 cents, not redeemable
I've personally witnessed a supercharged camaro on the dyno with 85% of the fuel pump being used let go on the bridge through 5th gear maxing out the pumps. Always data log any tune in the real world.pumps are done at Paul's High Performance. I have seen a few threads about them and decided to just upgrade my fuel system. I brought a set and they reside on my shelf. If you need more than a BAP I would upgrade the system and be done with it. Just my 2 cents, not redeemable
Your car comes stock with two F150 pumps. I would buy a real fuel system if it was me or you might become a member of BMC. :shrug:
Didn't really have "issues" with the BAP functioning right..sorry mistated above. The install was done with hobbs switch wired in and t'd into boost vaccum line. Caused maxing out of duty cycles at wot in regards to the timing of coming on and off with the voltage from the BAP. This has been remedied by removing the hobbs switch entirely and am now running 19.99 volts to the pumps full time. I am on the edge of just ordering a return system and ID1000's.
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With respect, it is simple math lol. If you talk to five different tuners, and get three different answers, then that means that they are setting up the fuel tables differently to achieve the same end result (target AF). You can "cheat" the fuel system in different ways to obtain or sustain a target air fuel, but that doesn't mean it's the proper way to do things. The reason I said "depends" is just that, it does depend on the tune and injector size to some degree.
Each tuner should know, based on how he sets up his tune, exactly how much power a certain fuel system will support. This is where the math comes in. Pump flow, injector flow, estimated horsepower, and BSFC. I always like to have a 20% margin on the fuel system, it doesn't always happen, but ideally there should be some wiggle room. The same theory can be applied to Mass Air systems. It is a calibrated, metered system that can be measured using some simple math to estimate how much power it will support based on air flow.
There is no voodoo magic, it just is what it is.
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