So who has the right of way, police car or ambulance?

[BigSweezey]

There's a story in OK about a cop pulling an ambulance over for failing to yield, although they were both on a call. I can link the story if you'd like, but not trying to get off topic.

Question is.....if they both have the right of way....who yields to who? and can a police officer really write a ticket to an on duty, middle of a transport, ambulance?

 

[Lawfficer]

It would depend on the way the state law is written. In Wisconsins, there is not hiarchy for Emergency Vehicles. They both have the right of way and can do the same thing for the most part(LEO have some more "privildges").

With that being said, If possible, the ambulance should get the hell out of the way of the smaller, faster, and nimbler patrol car. There is no way the Ambulance with patient should be able to out pace a squad.

And it's a very very bad idea to ticket the Amubulance crew, the ones who come to put band-aids on your bullet holes, especially while they are working. It's just bad form....... :nonono::nonono::nonono:

 

[Iceman II]

Agreed, the ambulance (should) get out of the way and not hinder the officers faster patrol car. Normally officers have to make sure the situation is clear before letting EMS personnel in, depending on the type of call of course.
Chances are an ambulance driver wouldn't even get out of the way for a fire truck.
It amounts to a little common sense here.

 

[FNsweetS3]

This story may be one like we had in my neck of the woods. The Fire Dept and Police Dept were in a major feud.

Problem we had was that the FD's command staff did not like the new Chief and decided they wanted to voice their displeasure by hitting the sirens and horns when they passed cops on the street (when we had vehicles stopped or were directing traffic) . This happened for about 2 weeks before the Chief allowed us to retaliate by pulling over every truck that did it... and ticketing the driver (NEVER WHEN THEY WERE ON CALLS THOUGH). After the 5th or 6th citation the FD backed down... mayor called a meeting and brokered a truce.The FD then started fighting with the Rescue Squad.... it is all gay in the end!

 

[BigSweezey]

Thanks guys

Here's the story
Trooper, Paramedic Fight Caught on Tape - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |
Cliff notes: Ambulance is enroute to the hospital with a patient, doesn't say if it had lights and siren going, cop tries to pass ambulant, and the EMS say he doesn't see him. The police go to their call, and then track the ambulance down and end up getting in a fight with the guys. Hopefully the dash cam comes out.....but the pictures make the police look pretty bad.

 

[drews01cobra]

This is silly. Officers and all other emergency responders are required to operate an emergency vehicle in a reasonable manner and with due caution for the motoring public. Our lights and sirens do not relieve us of that responsibility. When overtaking another vehicle, regardless of what it is, we wait until we can safely pass the vehicle and continue on our way. We've done it countless times. Because the other vehicle was an ambulance shouldn't make a difference.

As far as BigSweezey's comment that the video made the cops "look bad", the video you watched was made by someone who showed an obvious dislike for law enforcement and gives you no idea as to what occurred prior to taking his video. I saw two officers walking around an ambulance and trying to talk with the EMT's to figure out what happened. I also saw one officer tell one of the EMT's he was under arrest. This was clear as day and impossible to misunderstand. The EMT made the decision he wasn't going to be arrested and when he pulled away, the other officer restrained him at the only location on the suspect's body that was presented to him. It looked to me that the officer was placing him under arrest for the assault that occurred prior to the anti-cop's video. It also looked to me that the officer's showed tremendous restraint to back off when they saw that the situation was escalating and other citizens were in the way and at risk of injury.

Now on to what I would have done. This incident occurred after the officer's completed their detail. I would have reported what I perceived as unsafe driving to the ambulance company and my management. I don't give tickets to other cops, firefighters, paramedics, emt's, whatever...and no one can tell me I have to. If I had a real big bug up my ass and I could not control myself, I would have followed the ambulance to the hospital and I would have figured out what happened back on the road in a more private manner.

 

[Iceman II]

Hum, the ambulance driver can't see a police car. Yeah, right! Sounds like a major excuse to me. Plus, that's his fault for not paying attention to traffic; there is no excuse for that.
I have also tracked down motorists who do not yield to emergency vehicles and issue citations. When a lives are at stake it is really annoying to have some idiot not get out of the way. It is really not that hard to pull over and stop as required.

 

[S8ER01Z]

This is silly. Officers and all other emergency responders are required to operate an emergency vehicle in a reasonable manner and with due caution for the motoring public. Our lights and sirens do not relieve us of that responsibility. When overtaking another vehicle, regardless of what it is, we wait until we can safely pass the vehicle and continue on our way. We've done it countless times. Because the other vehicle was an ambulance shouldn't make a difference.

Exactly.. when driving our rigs (code) I've never pulled off for PD (usually they are headed to the same call I am so I've been passsed by them but never had to get out of the way). If a unit approached full lights and siren I would slow and make room for them as it would display an extreme urgency to me. I would hope for the same from an officer if I approached them running lights and sirens but it would be MY job to ensure it was safe to proceed. Now if I was transporting with no lights and a unit approached from the rear I would certainly yield right away and get out of the way.

As far as BigSweezey's comment that the video made the cops "look bad", the video you watched was made by someone who showed an obvious dislike for law enforcement and gives you no idea as to what occurred prior to taking his video. I saw two officers walking around an ambulance and trying to talk with the EMT's to figure out what happened. I also saw one officer tell one of the EMT's he was under arrest. This was clear as day and impossible to misunderstand. The EMT made the decision he wasn't going to be arrested and when he pulled away, the other officer restrained him at the only location on the suspect's body that was presented to him. It looked to me that the officer was placing him under arrest for the assault that occurred prior to the anti-cop's video. It also looked to me that the officer's showed tremendous restraint to back off when they saw that the situation was escalating and other citizens were in the way and at risk of injury.

It was said in the article that the trooper was running lights but no siren (though the information could easily be incorrect)... from personal experience I check my mirrors while en route to the hospital but my primary focus is on traffic in front of me and I could easily miss a trooper in my rear view for a period of time in daylight hours. Who knows how long the trooper was behind him before he went around the rig and proceeded to his call.

I'm not a big fan of this video... naturally I want to side with my fellow EMTs in this situation but as stated the Tropper CLEARLY stated he was under arrest. Regardless of the situation at that point I would let the trooper arrest me and handle the rest after the fact. Though this could get UGLY if said medic was the highest level medic and no one was there that he could transfer patient care to. The video is slanted against the troopers IMHO and it makes it appear that they are delaying care and arresting the medic for nothing...but I honestly believe other things were going on here and the arrest was justified.

Now on to what I would have done. This incident occurred after the officer's completed their detail. I would have reported what I perceived as unsafe driving to the ambulance company and my management. I don't give tickets to other cops, firefighters, paramedics, emt's, whatever...and no one can tell me I have to. If I had a real big bug up my ass and I could not control myself, I would have followed the ambulance to the hospital and I would have figured out what happened back on the road in a more private manner.

:beer: This is exactly what I believe should have happened. Of course I wasn't there so it's hard to say what truly happened. Hopefully the dash cam will explain everything to those investigating.

 

[S8ER01Z]

Hum, the ambulance driver can't see a police car. Yeah, right! Sounds like a major excuse to me. Plus, that's his fault for not paying attention to traffic; there is no excuse for that.
I have also tracked down motorists who do not yield to emergency vehicles and issue citations. When a lives are at stake it is really annoying to have some idiot not get out of the way. It is really not that hard to pull over and stop as required.

According to the article

Davis said the driver of the ambulance was trying to avoid hitting a car that slowed down and wasn't aware of troopers nearby until it was too late.

"He slowed down, and as the car was getting over, that's when he passed us," Davis said. "I didn't hear him."

it doesnt say if the ambulance was running lights or not (unsure of why the vehicle in front of him had slowed down but it sounds like what normally occurs to us on the road when we run lights)

Again I am trying to reserve judgement because I work with you guys day in and day out here in my area and there's never been a problem. More information is needed here... the only thing the tropper did that I really don't agree with is stopping them en route and dealing with it instead of just following them to the hospital and dealing with it when the patient was taken care of. Of course I'm not an LEO so my take on his decision is slanted from a FF/EMT standpoint (worring about my patient) and not enforcing the law.

Edit: FWIW if the ambulance was running without lights I could understand the Troopers stopping it. (How would they know the rig is in service?) It should have been a brief conversation at that point though once they knew there was a patient onboard.

 

[Iceman II]

Exactly.. when driving our rigs (code) I've never pulled off for PD (usually they are headed to the same call I am so I've been passsed by them but never had to get out of the way). If a unit approached full lights and siren I would slow and make room for them as it would display an extreme urgency to me. I would hope for the same from an officer if I approached them running lights and sirens but it would be MY job to ensure it was safe to proceed. Now if I was transporting with no lights and a unit approached from the rear I would certainly yield right away and get out of the way.

Bingo! I have been an LEO for almost 20 years and never had a problem with EMT's. If there would be a problem I probably contact his supervisor and see if we can get the problem resolved.
Guess if it happened again, there would be a different course of action. Like I said, just common sense.

 

[BigSweezey]

As far as BigSweezey's comment that the video made the cops "look bad", the video you watched was made by someone who showed an obvious dislike for law enforcement and gives you no idea as to what occurred prior to taking his video.

correction....I can't watch the video...just the pictures. I have no "dislike" for officers of the law...and would like to be one...honestly I just couldn't afford it at this point. And why I didn't post the link at first, because without having a whole picture it's hard to pass judgement. I just thought it was wierd that EMT's and police got into it.

 

[S8ER01Z]

correction....I can't watch the video...just the pictures. I have no "dislike" for officers of the law...and would like to be one...honestly I just couldn't afford it at this point. And why I didn't post the link at first, because without having a whole picture it's hard to pass judgement. I just thought it was wierd that EMT's and police got into it.

It's far from the norm. I spent about 3 hours at the firehouse on tuesday just BSing with the local police chief. Sure we toss some jokes back and forth about police vs firemen but it's all in good sport. We play in the same sandbox and it doesn't do either side any good to piss in it.

 

[drews01cobra]

It's far from the norm. I spent about 3 hours at the firehouse on tuesday just BSing with the local police chief. Sure we toss some jokes back and forth about police vs firemen but it's all in good sport. We play in the same sandbox and it doesn't do either side any good to piss in it.

+42

correction....I can't watch the video...just the pictures. I have no "dislike" for officers of the law...and would like to be one...honestly I just couldn't afford it at this point. And why I didn't post the link at first, because without having a whole picture it's hard to pass judgement. I just thought it was wierd that EMT's and police got into it.

correction.....i didn't say YOU had a "dislike" for law enforcement, I said the video was shot by someone who had an obvious dislike for law enforcement.

 

[Thump_rrr]

+42



correction.....i didn't say YOU had a "dislike" for law enforcement, I said the video was shot by someone who had an obvious dislike for law enforcement.

The video was shot by someone who saw the LEO preventing the EMT from treating his mother.
The LEO shouls have waited for the ambulance to reach the hospital before he acted.

 

[drews01cobra]

The video was shot by someone who saw the LEO preventing the EMT from treating his mother.
The LEO shouls have waited for the ambulance to reach the hospital before he acted.

Either you did not read through my original post, where I already made that point, or you are a brand new LEO or not one at all. The video maker made several comments in the video that showed his state of mind during the incident. Up to and including that he was collecting evidence for the EMT concerning the altercation between the EMT and the officer. Not one time did he express any concern for his mother or that he tried to make an attempt to reason with the officers on his mother's behalf.

If her condition was life threatening, the EMTs would not have stopped until they arrived at the hospital and they would have had their dispatch operator inform the officer's dispatcher that they could not stop. The other reason they wouldn't have stopped if it was life threatening is a little thing called liability.

I've patrolled too long in high call volume areas for you to try and run your slant on me. I ask any verified LEO to explain why I'm wrong. Anything else you say after this is superfluous and everyone knows it. Press hard, there are three copies….

 

[Thump_rrr]

... I ask any verified LEO to explain why I'm wrong. Anything else you say after this is superfluous and everyone knows it. Press hard, there are three copies….

The OP did not specify that this be a LEO only thread which entitles me to give my opinion on the subject.
It is not up to you decide who can and cannot reply.

 

[Mike McRann]

It would depend on the way the state law is written. In Wisconsins, there is not hiarchy for Emergency Vehicles. They both have the right of way and can do the same thing for the most part(LEO have some more "privildges").

With that being said, If possible, the ambulance should get the hell out of the way of the smaller, faster, and nimbler patrol car. There is no way the Ambulance with patient should be able to out pace a squad.

And it's a very very bad idea to ticket the Amubulance crew, the ones who come to put band-aids on your bullet holes, especially while they are working. It's just bad form....... :nonono::nonono::nonono:

Hello everyone,
I saw the video on this incident and have read an article about it on another site, and I also read an incident report written by the paramedic involved (the paramedic that was in the back of the ambulance, was called out by the LEO's and almost arrested (they agreed that they would follow the ambulance to the hospital and make the arrest after the paramedic transferred care).

Here is the link to the paramedic's incident report.

http://www.ems1.com/data/emtstatement_0509.pdf

 

[S8ER01Z]

The video was shot by someone who saw the LEO preventing the EMT from treating his mother.
The LEO shouls have waited for the ambulance to reach the hospital before he acted.

Honestly the video is slanted against the officers (which is why I am waiting to hear what the dash cam is showing)... parts are missing and it's clear that the person shooting the video is frustrated and angry at the officers.

As I said above... it appears the ambulance was running without lights and siren... they could be en route to the hospital or taco bell.. the trooper would have no idea unless they informed him of this prior to the traffic stop. The stop itself I believe was justified considering what I know about the situation. I can't fault the trooper for initiating the stop... he was doing his job and there is nothing that states he can not stop a fire truck or ambulance while performing his duties.

 

[BigSweezey]

+42
correction.....i didn't say YOU had a "dislike" for law enforcement, I said the video was shot by someone who had an obvious dislike for law enforcement.

Correction....I like cops....and I shot the video.







Okay I'm kidding, I just wanted to say correction again. lol :coolman:

Thanks for the input fellas.

 

[drews01cobra]

Correction....I like cops....and I shot the video.







Okay I'm kidding, I just wanted to say correction again. lol :coolman:

Thanks for the input fellas.

LOL....I knew it wasn't you, you type way better than how the vid maker spoke!


And to THUMP_rrr, you obviously have difficulty reading through someone's post. I never said you couldn't comment. I only said that I ASK any LEO to EXPLAIN why I was wrong...you even quoted me! I did ten years in the ARMY and better people than I perished to secure your right to have an opinion. I always welcome it. :beer: