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<blockquote data-quote="tt335ci03cobra" data-source="post: 12589800" data-attributes="member: 68944"><p>Done right, nothing beats turbo IMO. That said, any of the power adders will do everything you're looking for, the new modulars are stout and drivability is excellent even on high hp modulars. </p><p></p><p>Mine drives like a lamb. A really fast, athletic lamb, but docile nonetheless. </p><p></p><p>Vvt-ti is even better/safer, so much control over the timing. I wish I had those heads. </p><p></p><p>Maintenance/durability: </p><p></p><p>You might get belt slip or wear out a belt quicker with sc's so just have an extra belt with some tools to change it out in the trunk. On forced induction cars you might use a little more oil between oil changed as the turbos/blowers spin with the slippery stuff as well so keep a quart in the trunk in the net storage spot. </p><p></p><p>I keep a quart of oil and some coolant in the car at all times. I've driven thousands of miles, many pretty hard at wot and still am on the same two bottles. I've used half a quart of oil over 5k miles (just going to buy a new quart this summer because of age of the quart I have now) and maybe a 16th of the coolant jug. Maybe. </p><p></p><p>It's wise to check oil and coolant before and at the end of any hard drive. Easy driving shouldn't matter but I check anyways just to catch anything early, cheap insurance. Nothing yet either way. If something seems low at the end of a hard ride, let everything cool back and check it before driving the next time, hot fluids stay at different levels/are still in use vs cold fluids. </p><p></p><p>With turbos, it's wise to get either turbo timers or just let the car get a good 3-4 minutes of steady calm driving at say 40mph before shutting the car off if you've been really hard on it during the drive. This lets cold fresh air pass through all the hot side and through the turbos which dramatically cools and softens the duration of stress. Turbos love heat to make power but too much heat for too long wears them out. </p><p></p><p>Inter cooling/cooling/oil/fuel and spark are the tricks to making big power safely, going a little over kill in those departments is the safe way to protect a $10k bullet block. $1300 in simple additional/upgraded cooling/fuel/etc mods like radiators, fans, catch can/drain backs will pay off with stone reliability in the long run on any turbo or sc car. The supporting cast always let the star shine but are critical nonetheless.</p><p></p><p>Far too often forced induction cars get billed as fragile glass because people get seduced into doing budget boost builds and don't upgrade those important aspects to slightly more than they need. As with any machinery, if you run it at or near 100% capacity, it's easy for something to go wrong.</p><p></p><p>This is another reason I like turbos. You can run less boost, there's at most a 1-3% parasitic drag via vacuum and externalities, but nothing compared to an sc plus they don't suffer heat soak when properly intercooled. The boost is also balanced as it pushes and pulls on the rotating assembly harmonically. Sc's can only push which is a much harsher boost. Turbos and centris roll into boost while pd cars slam in boost.</p><p></p><p>In short, a turbo car can make the same power as an sc car with at most, half the stress on the engine itself. Maybe 60% if its plumbed less than ideally. Typically a well sized turbo only needs 50-70% of the boost of an sc car to make the same power. It's also not requiring the motor to eat up frictions via parasitic drag. A 700hp sc motor at 20psi is really making about 850-900hp but the parasitic drag is eating up the 150~hp to spin the blower to 20psi. A turbo mill making 700hp is maybe making 714hp while the vacuum and externalities eat up that 14 hp. It's also maybe needing 10-12psi if its the same motor that needed 20psi for 700hp sc'd.</p><p></p><p>Also if your at altitude like I am, 4500ft, than all of the above applies but with thinner, hotter, less potent air charges as denser, oxygen rich air remains colder, sparser air is more prone to heat via physics and is less potent. </p><p></p><p>A turbo setup reads o2 count so if its set for 14psi, and spinning at say 55,000rpms at sea level, when you go up in altitude and the air thins of o2 by 3%/1000 ft, a turbo will simply spin 3% faster per 1000ft to maintain o2 readings via the banks/maf. It doesn't harm the turbos to spin slightly faster because its resisting the same physical volume density. It's the same effective work to move say 55,000rpms against air that is 3% denser than air moved at 56,650rpms that is 3% thinner. </p><p></p><p>This pays off at altitude as it maintains the same oxygen levels as sea level, roughly. This means a turbo car will need a much lower correction factor at altitude. In essence, the car will keep more of its power vs be starved for oxygen. </p><p></p><p>If you run 20psi of 4500ft air through a whipple or centri, it's really 13.5% thinner air so it's like your really running 17.3psi of boost at sea level, plus what the na motor is already losing. Now couple the fact that its still pullied for 20psi, and the additional drag of 20psi vs 17psi comes into play to rob an additional 15-25hp depending on pd or centri in parasitic losses vs that same car at sea level pullied for 17.3psi. The stresses are still the same on the engine as they are at sea level and then some because the same mechanical forces are at play but they are decoupled with thinner air. This means the engine is making less power but just as taxed. This is important because its not simply a case of just putting more boost into an sc car to get back to sea level numbers, pulleying the car to maybe 23psi won't get you the sea level numbers you had at 20psi because each additional psi of boost is taxed just the same. There's now more drag, but even worse, hotter air charges as the thin air can't keep the lobes/impeller cool enough, and so forth accordingly, heat soak becomes an almost exponential problem with additional boost as the blower internals get hotter. This is somewhat true of turbos as well but the air is much more efficiently cooled via the intercooler in a turbo car than in a pd or centri car.</p><p></p><p>In short, many turbo cars run amazing at altitude because of their inherent design and beltless nature. It stands to reason that turbine tech allowed airplanes to break altitude barriers that sc planes simply could not.</p><p></p><p>Now I've rambled on and on so I'll stop, good luck.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tt335ci03cobra, post: 12589800, member: 68944"] Done right, nothing beats turbo IMO. That said, any of the power adders will do everything you're looking for, the new modulars are stout and drivability is excellent even on high hp modulars. Mine drives like a lamb. A really fast, athletic lamb, but docile nonetheless. Vvt-ti is even better/safer, so much control over the timing. I wish I had those heads. Maintenance/durability: You might get belt slip or wear out a belt quicker with sc's so just have an extra belt with some tools to change it out in the trunk. On forced induction cars you might use a little more oil between oil changed as the turbos/blowers spin with the slippery stuff as well so keep a quart in the trunk in the net storage spot. I keep a quart of oil and some coolant in the car at all times. I've driven thousands of miles, many pretty hard at wot and still am on the same two bottles. I've used half a quart of oil over 5k miles (just going to buy a new quart this summer because of age of the quart I have now) and maybe a 16th of the coolant jug. Maybe. It's wise to check oil and coolant before and at the end of any hard drive. Easy driving shouldn't matter but I check anyways just to catch anything early, cheap insurance. Nothing yet either way. If something seems low at the end of a hard ride, let everything cool back and check it before driving the next time, hot fluids stay at different levels/are still in use vs cold fluids. With turbos, it's wise to get either turbo timers or just let the car get a good 3-4 minutes of steady calm driving at say 40mph before shutting the car off if you've been really hard on it during the drive. This lets cold fresh air pass through all the hot side and through the turbos which dramatically cools and softens the duration of stress. Turbos love heat to make power but too much heat for too long wears them out. Inter cooling/cooling/oil/fuel and spark are the tricks to making big power safely, going a little over kill in those departments is the safe way to protect a $10k bullet block. $1300 in simple additional/upgraded cooling/fuel/etc mods like radiators, fans, catch can/drain backs will pay off with stone reliability in the long run on any turbo or sc car. The supporting cast always let the star shine but are critical nonetheless. Far too often forced induction cars get billed as fragile glass because people get seduced into doing budget boost builds and don't upgrade those important aspects to slightly more than they need. As with any machinery, if you run it at or near 100% capacity, it's easy for something to go wrong. This is another reason I like turbos. You can run less boost, there's at most a 1-3% parasitic drag via vacuum and externalities, but nothing compared to an sc plus they don't suffer heat soak when properly intercooled. The boost is also balanced as it pushes and pulls on the rotating assembly harmonically. Sc's can only push which is a much harsher boost. Turbos and centris roll into boost while pd cars slam in boost. In short, a turbo car can make the same power as an sc car with at most, half the stress on the engine itself. Maybe 60% if its plumbed less than ideally. Typically a well sized turbo only needs 50-70% of the boost of an sc car to make the same power. It's also not requiring the motor to eat up frictions via parasitic drag. A 700hp sc motor at 20psi is really making about 850-900hp but the parasitic drag is eating up the 150~hp to spin the blower to 20psi. A turbo mill making 700hp is maybe making 714hp while the vacuum and externalities eat up that 14 hp. It's also maybe needing 10-12psi if its the same motor that needed 20psi for 700hp sc'd. Also if your at altitude like I am, 4500ft, than all of the above applies but with thinner, hotter, less potent air charges as denser, oxygen rich air remains colder, sparser air is more prone to heat via physics and is less potent. A turbo setup reads o2 count so if its set for 14psi, and spinning at say 55,000rpms at sea level, when you go up in altitude and the air thins of o2 by 3%/1000 ft, a turbo will simply spin 3% faster per 1000ft to maintain o2 readings via the banks/maf. It doesn't harm the turbos to spin slightly faster because its resisting the same physical volume density. It's the same effective work to move say 55,000rpms against air that is 3% denser than air moved at 56,650rpms that is 3% thinner. This pays off at altitude as it maintains the same oxygen levels as sea level, roughly. This means a turbo car will need a much lower correction factor at altitude. In essence, the car will keep more of its power vs be starved for oxygen. If you run 20psi of 4500ft air through a whipple or centri, it's really 13.5% thinner air so it's like your really running 17.3psi of boost at sea level, plus what the na motor is already losing. Now couple the fact that its still pullied for 20psi, and the additional drag of 20psi vs 17psi comes into play to rob an additional 15-25hp depending on pd or centri in parasitic losses vs that same car at sea level pullied for 17.3psi. The stresses are still the same on the engine as they are at sea level and then some because the same mechanical forces are at play but they are decoupled with thinner air. This means the engine is making less power but just as taxed. This is important because its not simply a case of just putting more boost into an sc car to get back to sea level numbers, pulleying the car to maybe 23psi won't get you the sea level numbers you had at 20psi because each additional psi of boost is taxed just the same. There's now more drag, but even worse, hotter air charges as the thin air can't keep the lobes/impeller cool enough, and so forth accordingly, heat soak becomes an almost exponential problem with additional boost as the blower internals get hotter. This is somewhat true of turbos as well but the air is much more efficiently cooled via the intercooler in a turbo car than in a pd or centri car. In short, many turbo cars run amazing at altitude because of their inherent design and beltless nature. It stands to reason that turbine tech allowed airplanes to break altitude barriers that sc planes simply could not. Now I've rambled on and on so I'll stop, good luck. [/QUOTE]
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