SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Universal Minimum Income

[Zemedici]

Id like to see an automated robot bring a car in need of service or repair into a service bay and diagnose the problem, remove all necessary components to get to failed parts without breaking anything, fixing said issue, reassembling car and road testing it for safety.

That robot would cost MILLIONS of dollars, be more complicated than any machine currently on the planet and be unable to process fix and diagnose the unforeseen issue that typically happen in many repair instances.

There are just some jobs that cannot feasibly be replaced by robots for the distant future. There will ALWAYS be a need for skilled labor.

Just saw this, and thought of an interesting point.

The cyborgs may not be able to diagnose an issue, but look at the opposite end of the spectrum, the manufacturing. Look at the amount of automation being applied there. It is only a matter of time until the robotics work their way into the maintaining process as well.

 

[DHG1078]

Just saw this, and thought of an interesting point.

The cyborgs may not be able to diagnose an issue, but look at the opposite end of the spectrum, the manufacturing. Look at the amount of automation being applied there. It is only a matter of time until the robotics work their way into the maintaining process as well.

Well, robots on a manufacturing line don't have to deal with any regularities. They get a car in their bay, they scan paperwork telling them what program to run, and they can expect whatever they are working on to be in the exact same spot every time, in perfect condition.

Maintaining vehicles is different. Have to deal with dirt, grime, corrosion, broken parts, aftermarket parts, non-oem size bolts, wires, non-oem equipment, etc. Its going to take huge leaps in AI to get anywhere close to becoming viable. And that is assuming you can make a robot small enough and powerful enough to fit without disassembling the car.

 

[Zemedici]

Well, robots on a manufacturing line don't have to deal with any regularities. They get a car in their bay, they scan paperwork telling them what program to run, and they can expect whatever they are working on to be in the exact same spot every time, in perfect condition.

Maintaining vehicles is different. Have to deal with dirt, grime, corrosion, broken parts, aftermarket parts, non-oem size bolts, wires, non-oem equipment, etc. Its going to take huge leaps in AI to get anywhere close to becoming viable. And that is assuming you can make a robot small enough and powerful enough to fit without disassembling the car.

ah but wouldn't all of that be covered by a manufacturer's 'warranty'?

i.e. 'dont **** with it and we'll maintain it' - sensors could detect the amount of dirt / grime, etc, right?

Just playing robot's advocate here hahaha

 

[Smooth]

This is the candlemaker fallacy. With the invention of the lightbulb, all the candle makers are going to be jobless and starve, so we have to do something to ensure that they don't. Guess what? They didn't starve and life moved on.

It's not like we're going to wake up one day and 150 million robots just replaced the entire labor force. Shifts will be gradual as the tech is adopted by companies. Layed off workers will then need to do some soul searching and plan a new career or flounder through life.

You, my fellow cheesehead, are spot on.

Serious question for pwrshft99:
What is your definition of the role of government?

 

[Steve@TF]

if AI advances to the point where you can have a robot doing a mechanics job then we're all ****ed because they'll be able to do pretty much everything else as well. everything from flipping burgers to operating a keyboard in a cubicle to performing brain surgery. it will be like in Wall E where we'll all be morbidly obese people sitting on walmart scooters while the robots do everything for us.

as far as food scarcity goes, Soylent Green!

 

[DropSVT]

If anything there should be a standard to what qualifies your job to make that minimum living wage. Fast food doesn't deserve as much as someone changing tires all day


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com

 

[DHG1078]

There are machines that can flip burgers already. They just need someone to keep it stocked/clean. They can cook burgers to order, custom meat blends, slice the vegetables fresh, etc. faster than people can. I'm betting they will start showing up in fast food in the next 5 years.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/03/08/burger-flipping-robot-flippy/

http://www.businessinsider.com/momentum-machines-funding-robot-burger-restaurant-2017-6

 

[Robert Francis]

Why not just pay people what their skills, whatever they may be and how they are acquired, are worth to the current society?

I grew up in the 1950's and that's what usually happened back then. Skilled trades such as carpenters, stone masons, plumbers, electricians, etc made more than non skilled labor. Those that sought a higher education, such as college, and became accountants, engineers, doctors, nurses, business professionals, etc made more than non skilled labor.

And non skilled laborers always had the opportunity to become skilled and/or acquire a higher education to achieve the higher paying jobs.

 

[nxhappy]

the US is crowded as ****:
US: 323 million
Canada: 36 million
Mexico: 128 million
California: 39 million

 

[HillbillyHotRod]

Hmmm, Now if we can just get rid of Cali.

 

[VerySneaky]

In the medical field for example... we don't even need a technological break through to cut that field to 3%. If society just ate real good, exercised, and didn't let the rat race consume them there wouldn't be all these sick people. There's a real topic. Why is everyone so damn sick?

Two words: planned obsolescence.
We are mortal for a reason. We are living twice as long as our ancestors, we are 7.5 billion on this earth, more than any other apex predator in the known history of the world. We will reach a peak population and it is rapidly approaching. The world will be unable to sustain our growing numbers. Automation will eliminate the jobs they are designed to overtake to some extent, forcing people to adapt, to learn a new profession or skill to market: maintainers, farmers, and technicians.
"Human" life will be valued by capability and those under the threshold will perish. All this will happen under the guise of socialistic practices as we are seeing now, "minimum wage" across the board followed by redistribution, the "middle class" kept passive through entertainment and the primal us/them mentality until we are all eating dirt, all the while a "baseline" hybrid population is bred and the top-side outliers being pulled into the protected elite as the rest of the world starves.

 

[SirShaun]

I had this talk with a buddy the other day. There are far too many jobs that cannot be automated. There are many jobs that aren't worth automating.

The human body has 206 bones. That's a lot of movement, and replicating that in a robot is very expensive. Sure we will see some jobs be automated but as for trade skills, the cost to automate would outweigh the benefit.

I think we will continue to see a lot of the same. Industries advance and work gets easier thanks to technology.
Slave Labor -> Cotton Gin -> Tractors and Attachments

 

[IronSnake]

I for one accept our new robot overlords. As long as they lay nice clean new pavement on the reg and let me live in the middle of the woods with my old shitty cars, my dog/cat, and my lady.

Can't wait to be the last person making babies the old fashion way. I'll be like Demolition Man.

 

[LogiWorld123]

Its a great idea. Implementation is a minefield.

Until we have incredibly incredibly cheap energy source (think Star Trek) that enables us to overcome the very real and hard capped limitations on resources (food, water, shelter) for all of a community, its unlikely to be successful.

 

[black4vcobra]

the US is crowded as ****:
US: 323 million
Canada: 36 million
Mexico: 128 million
California: 39 million

Yup, the herd could use a good culling...

I'm 33 and my wife is 31 and we got married in May, no kids for either of us. We keep getting asked when we will have kids and how many and I say eventually and start with 1 and possibly a 2nd if it goes well.

People criticize my comment that we might stop at 1 and I tell them my reasoning including "the world is already overpopulated" and they think I'm joking when I use that as a legitimate reason. I'm 100% not joking.

 

[DHG1078]

Yup, the herd could use a good culling...

I'm 33 and my wife is 31 and we got married in May, no kids for either of us. We keep getting asked when we will have kids and how many and I say eventually and start with 1 and possibly a 2nd if it goes well.

People criticize my comment that we might stop at 1 and I tell them my reasoning including "the world is already overpopulated" and they think I'm joking when I use that as a legitimate reason. I'm 100% not joking.

We have 1, and people tell us all the time we are doing her a disservice by not having a second immediately. I always ask if they have an extra 1500 a month for daycare and insurance to pay for my second child.

 

[Mojo88]

Elon Musk (Tesla and SpaceX guy) recently warned that AI will one day be able to do EVERYTHING better than humans. A few decades ago, this would have been tin-foil hat nonsense talk, but now it's serious discussion. The times, they are a changin'.... fast

 

[black4vcobra]

We have 1, and people tell us all the time we are doing her a disservice by not having a second immediately. I always ask if they have an extra 1500 a month for daycare and insurance to pay for my second child.

Yup, unless they are providing significant childcare and financial support, other people's opinions mean zero as far as having children and/or how many. Even if they are providing that, their opinion would still mean very little.

 

[DHG1078]

Yup, unless they are providing significant childcare and financial support, other people's opinions mean zero as far as having children and/or how many. Even if they are providing that, their opinion would still mean very little.

They always say shes missing out on developing social skills. I always say I thought she learned those at daycare.

 

[DHG1078]

Elon Musk (Tesla and SpaceX guy) recently warned that AI will one day be able to do EVERYTHING better than humans. A few decades ago, this would have been tin-foil hat nonsense talk, but now it's serious discussion. The times, they are a changin'.... fast

I would believe that one day in the distant future that will be true. There are some serious technological breakthroughs that need to happen first though. And a huge ROI issue. Adoption will be slow when it is feasible.

There are a lot of fine motor skills and dexterity humans have that are very difficult to replicate. Critical thinking is another big hurdle, and the ethics of having robots that can think critically and freely.