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SVTPerformance's Chain of Restaurants
The Greasy Spoon
Royal Purple - Hollywood
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<blockquote data-quote="ottocycle" data-source="post: 13956328" data-attributes="member: 111247"><p>I did not intend to imply that used oil analysis is not worthwhile. It absolutely is a great tool. However, it is but <em>one</em> tool to be used in monitoring the condition of a piece of equipment (in this case automotive engines) and the oil used in that equipment. The current popular consumer use of this tool is a bit of misapplication. Some useful information can be gleaned from it, but an elemental UOA report is far from a definitive method for comparing oils. That is not what it is intended for.</p><p></p><p>Also, the wording was not gussied-up or otherwise made more complicated than it needed to be to disparage or exclude anyone. The language used was the most appropriate for the topic at hand. Used oil analysis is a scientific analytical process and, unfortunately, the information and education required to make best use of that tool is not as accessible as the service that is offered to the consumer.</p><p></p><p>I am completely sympathetic to the desire and effort to identify and evaluate products that I lay out my money for, but if the effort is applied incorrectly, the results will be flawed. I can offer some guidelines to make these efforts more useful, though, and they apply to analysis of any lubricant.</p><p></p><p>1. A baseline sample must be supplied to the lab so that a valid point of reference is available. "Universal Averages" are universally incorrect.</p><p></p><p>2. Ideally the baseline sample would be after the oil is installed with minimum usage (a couple of minutes idling the engine, for example). This will ensure that the baseline has picked up any contaminants that are resident in the engine and that will show up in later samples. If this is not done, be aware that anything residual in the engine will show up in later samples and NOT be accounted for in the baseline. At a minimum, send a clean sample of new oil from one of the bottles used for the oil change. Once the "behavior" of that particular oil in that particular engine has been established, then a good clean "end of use" sample may be used to spot check what is happening. Be aware that if the oil brand, product line, or viscosity grade is changed, the process must start over; the historical information is not valid for a new oil, a radical change in usage, or rebuilt/reconditioned equipment.</p><p></p><p>3. There should be at least one sample in the middle of the oil change interval (for example pull a sample at 4,000 miles if you plan to change the oil at 8,000 miles). This sample, along with the baseline and last sample will provide 3 points for a trend. This is important because the rate of change (wear metals, viscosity, additive content, contamination, etc.) is incredibly useful information and much more important than a single snapshot with unaccounted for variables.</p><p></p><p>4. The way a sample is taken is very important. If the sample is taken from the first oil or last oil to come out of the drain hole, it will contain a higher level of crud than if taken from the middle of the drain. Lighter density material will be on top (e.g. fuel) and heavier stuff will be on the bottom (water, particulates, crud, etc.). To improve the oil sample taken, it would also be best to pull the sample while the engine is running and from oil flow before it goes through the filter, but very few vehicles are equipped in such a way to do this. The best method for the enthusiast that balances convenience, safety and accuracy will be pulling a sample with a vampire pump through the dipstick tube (just after shutting off the engine), making sure the pump tubing doesn't scrape and pull material from the bottom of the oil pan. If this is not possible, pull a sample from the middle of the drain, as described above, just after the engine is shut off. This is not ideal, but will be closer to representative than other methods.</p><p></p><p>Consistency and removal or at least identification of variables is key.</p><p></p><p>The reason for my direct participation is that our product was being disparaged based on personal bias and incorrect/misinterpreted information. If the facts presented and interpretation of those facts were accurate, we have no reason to interject. We will not post on forums with the intent of flag waving or sword rattling, and as a policy, we do not disparage any reputable product or manufacturer in the attempt to make our products look better.</p><p></p><p>My offer for discussion of this subject or any other that is lubrication related still stands, but other direct contact concerning this thread will likely be through Jimmy.</p><p></p><p>Thank you for your time.</p><p></p><p>Chris Barker</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ottocycle, post: 13956328, member: 111247"] I did not intend to imply that used oil analysis is not worthwhile. It absolutely is a great tool. However, it is but [I]one[/I] tool to be used in monitoring the condition of a piece of equipment (in this case automotive engines) and the oil used in that equipment. The current popular consumer use of this tool is a bit of misapplication. Some useful information can be gleaned from it, but an elemental UOA report is far from a definitive method for comparing oils. That is not what it is intended for. Also, the wording was not gussied-up or otherwise made more complicated than it needed to be to disparage or exclude anyone. The language used was the most appropriate for the topic at hand. Used oil analysis is a scientific analytical process and, unfortunately, the information and education required to make best use of that tool is not as accessible as the service that is offered to the consumer. I am completely sympathetic to the desire and effort to identify and evaluate products that I lay out my money for, but if the effort is applied incorrectly, the results will be flawed. I can offer some guidelines to make these efforts more useful, though, and they apply to analysis of any lubricant. 1. A baseline sample must be supplied to the lab so that a valid point of reference is available. "Universal Averages" are universally incorrect. 2. Ideally the baseline sample would be after the oil is installed with minimum usage (a couple of minutes idling the engine, for example). This will ensure that the baseline has picked up any contaminants that are resident in the engine and that will show up in later samples. If this is not done, be aware that anything residual in the engine will show up in later samples and NOT be accounted for in the baseline. At a minimum, send a clean sample of new oil from one of the bottles used for the oil change. Once the "behavior" of that particular oil in that particular engine has been established, then a good clean "end of use" sample may be used to spot check what is happening. Be aware that if the oil brand, product line, or viscosity grade is changed, the process must start over; the historical information is not valid for a new oil, a radical change in usage, or rebuilt/reconditioned equipment. 3. There should be at least one sample in the middle of the oil change interval (for example pull a sample at 4,000 miles if you plan to change the oil at 8,000 miles). This sample, along with the baseline and last sample will provide 3 points for a trend. This is important because the rate of change (wear metals, viscosity, additive content, contamination, etc.) is incredibly useful information and much more important than a single snapshot with unaccounted for variables. 4. The way a sample is taken is very important. If the sample is taken from the first oil or last oil to come out of the drain hole, it will contain a higher level of crud than if taken from the middle of the drain. Lighter density material will be on top (e.g. fuel) and heavier stuff will be on the bottom (water, particulates, crud, etc.). To improve the oil sample taken, it would also be best to pull the sample while the engine is running and from oil flow before it goes through the filter, but very few vehicles are equipped in such a way to do this. The best method for the enthusiast that balances convenience, safety and accuracy will be pulling a sample with a vampire pump through the dipstick tube (just after shutting off the engine), making sure the pump tubing doesn't scrape and pull material from the bottom of the oil pan. If this is not possible, pull a sample from the middle of the drain, as described above, just after the engine is shut off. This is not ideal, but will be closer to representative than other methods. Consistency and removal or at least identification of variables is key. The reason for my direct participation is that our product was being disparaged based on personal bias and incorrect/misinterpreted information. If the facts presented and interpretation of those facts were accurate, we have no reason to interject. We will not post on forums with the intent of flag waving or sword rattling, and as a policy, we do not disparage any reputable product or manufacturer in the attempt to make our products look better. My offer for discussion of this subject or any other that is lubrication related still stands, but other direct contact concerning this thread will likely be through Jimmy. Thank you for your time. Chris Barker [/QUOTE]
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