Ran 12.2 @ 125.0 mph, please advise regarding bog

SVTKen

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I wrote this up for a couple of different forums, so bear with me if you're bored with some of the information in here
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I had a great time at Capitol Raceway on Friday night! This was my first time at the strip in the Shelby, so I was very excited. There were only a few test & tuners there early, so I got to make as many passes as I wanted. It got crowded after 8:00 though, and there was even a long line to get into the place at 9:00 when I left. I made 8 passes, but could have easily made another 3 or 4 if I wanted to earlier in the evening. I wanted to watch some of the other cars run and give my car a few cool downs from time to time. The key to getting lots of runs in at Capitol Raceway is to arrive early.

Let's start with the results. My best run was a 12.27 @ 125.00 mph. See time slip attachment (I was in car #888). My victim in this race was a very loud and slow Honda S2000 that was so far behind that I couldn't see it by the time the race was over. LOL. I know this is not the greatest ET or trap speed for the Shelby, but this was my first time at the strip in this car, and the first time drag racing a car with a manual transmission since the '90s. Let's just say that I know I can do much better with a little more practice. I ran lots of 12.3s and 12.4s, and all of my trap speeds exceeded 122 mph (despite my less than perfect shifting). Most of my 60 ft times were in the high 2.1 range, probably a result of the launch control and clutch protection programming. This was all with nothing more than the foot to floor technique with factory launch control system in Sport mode. I really wanted to find out how well the launch control system worked on this first time out, so I experimented with it and various launch RPM settings and clutch release techniques throughout the night. I didn't ice down the supercharger or engine or adjust tire pressure (the stock rear tires had 35 psi of pressure).

For those of you unfamiliar with the launch control system in the Shelby, what you do is select your launch RPM before staging your car. Once both cars are staged, you just push the thottle to the floor and the revs will automatically be held at the selected launch RPM. I varied my launch RPM from 3000-3300. It seemed like 3200 RPM worked best with a quick steady clutch release. The Shelby has a very late and quick clutch engagement which makes releasing it a bit tricky. The problem that I haven't been able to solve with the launch control is the initial "bog" when I release the clutch. The hesitation was so bad once that it felt like it fell on its face resulting in a 2.3 second 60 ft time, but the beast still pulled off a 12.3 second run at over 123 mph! There is a thin line between what appears to be too quick and too slow on the clutch release. It seemed like a quick steady release worked best and a slower release just made the hesitation even worse. My initial impressions regarding the launch control is that it's not that great, but I'm going to experiment with it some more and not pass judgement until I feel I have given it a fair chance. There's also a "RPM only" mode which I may give a try next time. In this mode, it will simply hold the selected RPMs before the clutch release and then you're completely on your own after that. I've got a feeling this will work much better, especially with DRs.

I don't think I have the optimal shift points nailed down yet, but it seemed like shifting at about 6600-6700 RPM resulted in the highest trap speeds. Reving it to the 7000 RPM redline or bumping the rev limiter had a big negative impact on trap speed and ET, even if you only do it once. Fortunately, I only hit the rev limiter a couple of times. I never missed a gear or had the dreaded gear "lock out" for rushing the shifts too quickly. It's amazing that I only have to shift twice then just keep it pegged until the finish line. I basically kept it to the floor until it hit the top of 3rd gear and the speedo showed 130+ mph, then I knew I was done. LOL.

After the sun set, the temperatures started to drop, which would normally be a good thing, but the stock tires on the Shelby are horrible on cold surfaces and in cooler temperatures. I heated them up pretty good before each pass, and even more before my last one because I knew the track was getting cold. Despite my best efforts, on my last pass, I had MASSIVE wheelspin at around 65 to 75 mph in second gear. It was enough to get the rear end fishtailing and have me countersteering to keep away from the wall! I think I probably shouldn't have gotten back on the throttle so hard so quickly going into 2nd, but I didn't expect it because I had no problems earlier. The traction control light was even flickering in 3rd gear at over 90 mph! The Shelby needs to be respected.

The Shelby got a lot of attention too. There were lots of guys and even a couple of young girls checking it out and asking me questions about it. Going to the track in the Shelby makes me feel like I'm dating a porn star. I definitely want to go again before it gets too cold and the tracks close for the season! I would be happy to go to Capitol Raceway again. Capitol Raceway is less than a half hour from my work.

Could those of you with experience getting the most out of the launch control please give me some advice on how to improve my 60 ft times and ETs? I'm disappointed in my 60 ft times, and just want to know some tips on how to improve the launch on the stock tires using launch control. I'll play with RPM only mode and drag radials later. How many of you guys have run 11s using the launch control in sport mode with the stock tires? What's the best we can get using the launch control with stock tires?

Check out my reaction time. What a blast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Lethalchem

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Well you're 0.5 sec off my time at the 1000' mark and I was using the same mode (7) launch as you and on stock tires too. My guess is perhaps you were being a little too conservative with your shifting. Usually people are shifting too quickly and get that lock out, then have to dial it back. I know I hit it on my first pass. Sounds like it was the opposite for you since you never hit it at all. You never ran into the lockout because you wern't pushing the shifting fast enough to get a feel for the limit perhaps? Just guessing. My best pass was done with a safe lift-shift to 2nd but my shift to 3rd was as close to a powershift without being one as you can get. It really makes the thing pull it out the big end. I never got rid of the stumble on the launch so I'm right there with ya on that point.

RIGHT Lane: 9006

IMG_0513_zps2817b7d8.jpg
 

GOTSVT?

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I was running 12.0 back to back to back
Never used any of the car features. I wanted to see how the
Car performs without the lc and other modes.
Your mph looks great, some tire spin in there for sure.
 

Fastfish420

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Looks about like normal times with stock tires.Ive made about 6 to 7 passes with mine and i have some bolt ons and DR and it still wont 60 foot.I cant imagine trying to run one of these cars with the stock tires.put some DR on it and it will be easy 11 sec car!
 

Lethalchem

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Looks about like normal times with stock tires.Ive made about 6 to 7 passes with mine and i have some bolt ons and DR and it still wont 60 foot.I cant imagine trying to run one of these cars with the stock tires.put some DR on it and it will be easy 11 sec car!

I disagree, "Normal" stock tire/car times should be able to get into the 11.8's.
 

Lethalchem

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I meant most of the people on this board are seeing low 12 sec slips.The DR will make it easier to get in the 11 sec range.

I get what you're saying, but I still think the average guy is getting into the 11's. Have you looked at the drag strip list? Of the 10 "stock" guys on there their average time between them is an 11.7
 

Lethalchem

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You need to slip the clutch.

That's not so easily done on a car that is equipped with ECP (Electronic Clutch Protection). When the car detects clutch slip, it intervenes and causes the car to stumble just like TC does. :bash:
 

NvrEnfHP

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That's not so easily done on a car that is equipped with ECP (Electronic Clutch Protection). When the car detects clutch slip, it intervenes and causes the car to stumble just like TC does. :bash:

Slipping the clutch tricks the car and it doesn't bog. Don't know the science. Just know it works.
 

Lethalchem

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Slipping the clutch tricks the car and it doesn't bog. Don't know the science. Just know it works.

It hasn't worked for me, we must be doing it differently. I still get the bog when the electronics interfere even with all nannies off. You may have more seat time trying it on this car than me though, because after it stumbled 2-3 times for me I quit bothering with it. What short times were you able to pull slipping yours? If it's working for you maybe I should go back out and see why it wasn't for me. :read:
 

biminiLX

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I don't disagree with the 11 sec. capability on stock tires, I just don't see the point.
It is definitely a tricky car to drive at the strip on stock tires and gearing. Trapping in 3rd was also real strange.
This was the first time I've taken anything down the track in 10+ years w/o a DR or slick and it was frustrating as hell. Also a bit dangerous if you nail a 1-2 shift I almost put the car sideways!
I'm not sure if I'll get back before other mods, but I'm itching to see the effects of a gear, tire, tune and better weather. I think the car is a perfect balance right now, but of course I'll be a bonehead and add more power :) Van's BMR suspension first though.
-J
 

biminiLX

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Ken--pretty standard first outing and promising 125mph trap.
I wish you would have tried no nannies and finesse on the clutch/throttle, Probably had 11s in her then. Good pass and hope you had fun--thats the key, someone's always faster right?
-J
 

SVTKen

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Well you're 0.5 sec off my time at the 1000' mark and I was using the same mode (7) launch as you and on stock tires too. My guess is perhaps you were being a little too conservative with your shifting. Usually people are shifting too quickly and get that lock out, then have to dial it back. I know I hit it on my first pass. Sounds like it was the opposite for you since you never hit it at all. You never ran into the lockout because you wern't pushing the shifting fast enough to get a feel for the limit perhaps? Just guessing. My best pass was done with a safe lift-shift to 2nd but my shift to 3rd was as close to a powershift without being one as you can get. It really makes the thing pull it out the big end. I never got rid of the stumble on the launch so I'm right there with ya on that point.

RIGHT Lane: 9006

Yes, you are right. I was concervative on my shifting because I was concerned about getting locked out and grinding the gears. I will call what I was doing "lazy speed shifting" :) I could definitely have been shifting faster, and will push for faster shifts next time. I agree that anything close to a power shift in second is a bad idea on the stock tires because it really upsets the cars suspension and traction.

I get what you're saying, but I still think the average guy is getting into the 11's. Have you looked at the drag strip list? Of the 10 "stock" guys on there their average time between them is an 11.7

That is the average of their BEST times, and some of these guys may have been to the track more than one time to get those results. I'm pretty sure that if we took the average of ALL times, it wouldn't be an 11.7. If I go again a few more times, I would be surprised if I didn't get an 11 second run.

I'm very surprised we only have 10 stock guys on this forum who have taken their car to the drag strip. Is that all of the times in that image we have for the entire forum? I've been to the track once, so I haven't had many opportunites to improve my ET yet. What I want to know is if anyone on here can avoid the bog and run 11s consistently, completely stock. I haven't figured out how to do that and would appreciate advice. Do you know how many passes these guys have done that are getting consistent 11s on the stock tires?

Slipping the clutch tricks the car and it doesn't bog. Don't know the science. Just know it works.

Have you ever personally tried this? If so what is your launch RPM and clutch slip rate? I tried letting the clutch out a bit slower and it didn't help at all. I know you can't just dump the clutch, but slipping it didn't work well for me and resulted in more bog.

I don't disagree with the 11 sec. capability on stock tires, I just don't see the point.

It is definitely a tricky car to drive at the strip on stock tires and gearing. Trapping in 3rd was also real strange.

This was the first time I've taken anything down the track in 10+ years w/o a DR or slick and it was frustrating as hell. Also a bit dangerous if you nail a 1-2 shift I almost put the car sideways!

I'm not sure if I'll get back before other mods, but I'm itching to see the effects of a gear, tire, tune and better weather. I think the car is a perfect balance right now, but of course I'll be a bonehead and add more power Van's BMR suspension first though.

-J

On my last pass of the evening, I was more confident and tried hustling through second gear quicker and getting back on the throttle too quickly and it resulted in MASSIVE wheelspin at 65-70 mph! My car was fishtailing and I was countersteering to maintain control and avoid the wall. It was really more entertaining than scary, but it made my friend watching from the stands nervous. LOL

I definitely need more practice. I will probably put on some DRs next summer.
 
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mustangmanjeff

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if magazine drivers like motor trend and car and driver can get 11.6-11.8@125-128, I can deff see your car running them times,esp since u ran low 12's with a 2.1-2.2 60 ft


ford needs to start to put a 6 speed auto in these cars stock just auto and tire swap I bet these cars will run high 10's @130 bone stock.
 

SVTKen

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if magazine drivers like motor trend and car and driver can get 11.6-11.8@125-128, I can deff see your car running them times,esp since u ran low 12's with a 2.1-2.2 60 ft

ford needs to start to put a 6 speed auto in these cars stock just auto and tire swap I bet these cars will run high 10's @130 bone stock.

One thing to keep in mind regarding the car mags is that they correct their ETs and trap speeds for DA. So if they take their test car to the track on a hot day when the track and stock tires are most grippy, they will get a better corrected time. I'm not sure of the test conditions for the mags you are referring to, but the mags do the correction to level the playing field for comparison. The difference can easily add up to 4 tenths of a second with DA of 3000. It's just something to keep in mind when looking at the numbers in magazines. If you were to go somewhere like Albuquerque National Dragway where the DA is 6000-7000 on a good day, most fast cars would look really slow :)
 
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Lethalchem

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That is the average of their BEST times, and some of these guys may have been to the track more than one time to get those results. I'm pretty sure that if we took the average of ALL times, it wouldn't be an 11.7. If I go again a few more times, I would be surprised if I didn't get an 11 second run.

I'm very surprised we only have 10 stock guys on this forum who have taken their car to the drag strip. Is that all of the times in that image we have for the entire forum? I've been to the track once, so I haven't had many opportunites to improve my ET yet. What I want to know is if anyone on here can avoid the bog and run 11s consistently, completely stock. I haven't figured out how to do that and would appreciate advice. Do you know how many passes these guys have done that are getting consistent 11s on the stock tires?

Yes, those are their best times, obviously. Many of those guys have made quite a bit of passes to get those times, especially the top guys. I know we have more guys than that who have raced but arn't on the list. I posted mine in that thread but it's never been updated to include me (perhaps because mine wasn't a full 1/4 mile pass, I don't know) but I'm sure quite a few others havn't been added yet or havn't even posted in that thread.

When I said I think the average guy runs in the high 11's, I mean they WILL get to that point if they keep tinkering with the car. I don't believe everyone is going to bust it out on their 1 and only pass in the car. I'm positive you've got 11's in yours too. Just takes a little testing.



Have you ever personally tried this? If so what is your launch RPM and clutch slip rate? I tried letting the clutch out a bit slower and it didn't help at all. I know you can't just dump the clutch, but slipping it didn't work well for me and resulted in more bog.

I looked at some of Nvrenfhp's other posts and I see he's got the 13 kit from Van on his car. That means he has a tune and in that tune Lund deactivates the ECP. I doubt this guy even realizes that based on his comments in this thread.
 
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SVTKen

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Yes, those are their best times, obviously. Many of those guys have made quite a bit of passes to get those times, especially the top guys. I know we have more guys than that who have raced but arn't on the list. I posted mine in that thread but it's never been updated to include me (perhaps because mine wasn't a full 1/4 mile pass, I don't know) but I'm sure quite a few others havn't been added yet or havn't even posted in that thread.

When I said I think the average guy runs in the high 11's, I mean they WILL get to that point if they keep tinkering with the car. I don't believe everyone is going to bust it out on their 1 and only pass in the car. I'm positive you've got 11's in yours too. Just takes a little testing.

I looked over the dragtimes thread and saw lots of stock times in the low 12s and high 11s. Many of the slips are not even posted in the image/screenshot in post #1 of that discussion, so it's not representative of all the owners and people who have posted their times. It should include all of them.

It appears that the OP in the drag times thread is trying to post an image, and there is limit to what he can fit on the screen shot. It would be better to post a table with limited rows (60 ft, ET, Trap, Mods) and use a fixed font and underscores to separate the columns.

I'm absolutely certain that even with a slight bog, I can run 11s completely stock. I just need some practice, faster shifting, and a stickier track would help too.
 
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NvrEnfHP

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Yes, those are their best times, obviously. Many of those guys have made quite a bit of passes to get those times, especially the top guys. I know we have more guys than that who have raced but arn't on the list. I posted mine in that thread but it's never been updated to include me (perhaps because mine wasn't a full 1/4 mile pass, I don't know) but I'm sure quite a few others havn't been added yet or havn't even posted in that thread.

When I said I think the average guy runs in the high 11's, I mean they WILL get to that point if they keep tinkering with the car. I don't believe everyone is going to bust it out on their 1 and only pass in the car. I'm positive you've got 11's in yours too. Just takes a little testing.





I looked at some of Nvrenfhp's other posts and I see he's got the 13 kit from Van on his car. That means he has a tune and in that tune Lund deactivates the ECP. I doubt this guy even realizes that based on his comments in this thread.

So I was running 12.04 at 127mph with a 2.1 60 foot bone stock. I was having the same problem as you and talked to snorman. He gave the same advice I just gave you. Looked at his posts for the proof in the pudding u are looking for. Since I don't seem to have a. Clue. :bash:
 

Devious_Snake

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Lethalchem, there is a fine line you have to find when slipping the clutch on these cars. It took me a few times to the track to get better, but I be no means am a drag pro nor am I that big into it anyway. My best bone stock time down to a tire was a 12.2 @123, hot humid at PBIR. I improved that time with a tire swap to 18 inch 285 nitto's and ran several 11.8 passes. And I was not shifting that aggressively either. Some guys are better than others, some tracks are better than others, so on and so forth. But for me a bit of slipping helped avoid the dreaded bog. But its very annoying when you try to leave hard and it cuts in just as hard. Also not many tuners seem to be up on disabling the ECP.
 
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