Racing a Cobra R in vintage racing

[1995COBRA-R]

First, the new (9/2012) issue of Classic Motorsports magazine had a summary of the HSR Walter Mitty. Here:

And it mentioned the "recently retired door-slammers" of Motorola Cup fame:

I've had a few guys recently ask me how to get started. You don't need an original IMSA Motorola Cup car. There is really no data on the Cobra R and the Cobra R clones that once raced in this series.

You just need a 1993/SN95 car. :-D It should have a rollbar, harness, fire system, and the "uniform" (fire suit, Hans, and the proper helmet).

You'll need a racing license. You may have one or enough experience to get one. Gary is a certified instructor so he can teach you the stuff that you need to know, or you can do a Skip Barber school.

This is vintage racing so the only one thing that can get you in trouble with the officials is aggressive driving. The car racing preparation rules are "run what you brung" ;-) , but the car should look like a Motorola Cup car (no rear big wings or big front spliters).

Here are a few pictures of what is now raced in vintage:

 

[JohnW#88]

^ Cool!

This is where I'll most likely return to W2W someday.

Looks like a fun, semi-low key place to do some gentleman's racing.

I've had my share of the SCCA/ NASA stuff and their never ending rules changes, politics and spec tires. Enough already.

JW- Looking for greener grass.

 

[1995COBRA-R]

John,
Don't tell anyone. :-D The yellow #74 has been racing for a number of years with the same 4.6L engine that Ford installed when new. They are good engines.

The Zippo car had no engine at purchase. Gary installed a 5.2 (302W, stroked to 331 c.i.) from a vintage racing 1965-1966 car. Both are less than the rules of a 5.7L. It's just that the old pushrod 5.0L has a lot more R&D as it relates to finishing a race weekend and winning championships.

The #53 is leading the SVRA points going into the Watkins Glen race in September. It could win the championship.

 

[SDW Racing]

Doc,

I spent most of the SAAC convention watching the racing....especially the Cobra Rs and the yellow #74....they were spectacular. But the 95Rs that were modded, minus the FI, fully carbed with a bigger cam amazed me. They ran well and sounded great...it really stoked me....trying to contain myself and focus on getting a new Boss...but who knows.:lol:

 

[1995COBRA-R]

I spent most of the SAAC convention watching the racing....especially the Cobra Rs and the yellow #74....they were spectacular. But the 95Rs that were modded, minus the FI, fully carbed with a bigger cam amazed me. They ran well and sounded great...it really stoked me....trying to contain myself and focus on getting a new Boss...but who knows.:lol:

Thanks Johnny.
I had planned on doing more time spectating but Gary kept sending me over to the tire guys with orders of "I need four new tires in 20 minutes". :shrug: :dw: I understood.

Just saying, there is a huge difference in hitting a guard rail in a 1966 Mustang and a 1995 Mustang. The 1995 car was under Federal specs as it relates to the crash zone (it bends before it destroys the frame). A 1966 car tends to absorb the hit by twisting the frame rails.

I could immediately see the damage on the 1966 car.

It has been verified. The frame is twisted. Would anyone like first bid on a 1966 Fastback? You can just twist the frame back to spec.

 

[mrmustang]

It has been verified. The frame is twisted. Would anyone like first bid on a 1966 Fastback? You can just twist the frame back to spec.

I'm game, call me :beer:


Bill S.

 

[JohnW#88]

Don't tell anyone.

It's safe with me.

I'll be shopping for a car with a documented history and at the right price. I'll know it when I see it kinda thing.

 

[1995COBRA-R]

Bill,
Dick's old car is ready to go to a new home. If you are interested, send me a PM, and I'll give out the cell phone of the owner. Here is the new one at Savannah last weekend:

Harry has been hanging in there with his Steeda R. He has suffered from engine problems all year.

Debbie's Zippo car has had a great year. I haven't checked the points, but she has to be in the top three. Savannah:

Here is her other Cobra at Savannah:

 

[1995COBRA-R]

Just saying:

BRASELTON, Ga.—The Speedfest at the Classic Motorsports Mitty presented by Mazda, the oldest and largest historic car event on the East Coast, will return to Road Atlanta April 26-28, 2013. Sanctioned by the Historic Sportscar Racing Association, the 37th Mitty will bring together cars ranging from 1950s classics to current models.

Road racing legend David Hobbs will serve as the grand marshal for Speedfest at the 2013 Classic Motorsports Mitty Presented by Mazda.

I just hope Mr. Hobbs:

Has actually raced against a Cobra R. :-D

 

[1995COBRA-R]

These are unusual serious questions. ;-)

Gary is working with the rule people on vintage racing rules for the IMSA production car period of ~1995-1999 (I said include 2000 R's). It will be titled as class MC (Motorola Cup, although later Grand-Am rules will be allowed).

Does anyone remember the IMSA weight rules from ~1995-2003 for a Mustang Cobra? I can't find my notes. I was thinking 2600 lbs? Or maybe it was 2800 (no driver)? :shrug:

Was there a RPM limit? I understand the computer controls this. This makes it harder to control than an older MSD chip ignition.

No restriction on brakes (along as it fits within a 17" wheel)? OK? A 17" wheel is the maximum? It can be Cobra R wheel or the lightweight stuff allowed then?

No carbon fiber.

Shocks (struts) and springs are unlimited? Tires will be Hoosier (or anything else).

Anything else?

They want to create the series as it was then (with Camaro's, Firebirds, and other slow cars :-D ). It must be simple with no tech arguments on Sunday.

 

[1993R]

Doc,
I have the IMSA rulebook for the 1993 or 1994 firehawk series somewhere......remodeling house and stuff is everywhere.

 

[GJMCAR98]

Working with HSR on the rules now. They should be posted very shortly. Can't guarantee anything but hoping the SVRA rules will be close to what HSR has so we can have some unity with the groups. Almost certain HSR will have two classes with entry level cars similar to what the Firehawk cars were that will include 94,95 Mustangs with the 302. Should be inexpensive cars to build/maintain/race. Other class will be very similar to what we have been racing the last few years. Really hoping some of the Firebirds and Camaros will come out and play also :mj:. Will let everyone know when the rules are put on the HSR web-site....op:

 

[CobraR77]

I have a couple rule books and some technical bulletins. I’ll try to dig that stuff up and send It to you guys.

Please understand that the 1995 Cobra R raced under a few race series 1995-2003. These series evolved into what is now known as the Continental Tire Series. The SportsCar Speedvision Cup and Motorola Cup series ran concurrently in 1998 (and possibly 1999). The rules were essentially the same and many teams raced in both series. (One known rule exception: the Cobra R’s were permitted to remove the rear spoiler in 1998 Speedvision Cup. )

1995-1996 IMSA Endurance Championship
1997-1998 SportsCar Speedvision Cup
1998-2000 Motorola Cup
2001-2003 Grand Am Cup

Per 1999 Motorola Cup Rule Book:

13.5.
...the following cars will meet or exceed the following weights listed without fuel or driver:

GRAND SPORTS:

Acura NSX 91-96
2750 lbs.

Acura NSX 97-98
2750 lbs

Acura NXS 91-98
2750 lbs.

BMW M3
2850 lbs.

BMW M5

Ferrari Challenge 348
2950 lbs.

Ford Mustang 5.8 Cobra R
3100 lbs.

Ford Mustang 4.6 SVT
3150 lbs.

Chevrolet Camaro LS1
3200 lbs.

Chevrolet Camaro LT1
3150 lbs.

Lexus GS400

Mazda RX7 Turbo
2700 lbs.

Mercedes CLK 430

Pontiac Firebird LS1
3200 lbs.

Pontiac Firebird LT1
3150 lbs.

Porsche 944
2650 lbs.

Porsche Carrera 993
3150 lbs.

Porsche Carrera 996
3150 lbs.

Toyota Supra Turbo
3200 lbs.

--------------------------

The series reserved the right to limit RPM’s but I have not found any documentation that the Cobra R’s had a limit placed on them. The race computer on my car was set at 7500.

--------------------------

As of 1999, the Wheel diameter was limited at 16 inch then it was upped to 17 inch in 2000/01ish .

As of 1999, Brakes were limited to stock (pads/shoes were free). Certain aftermarket brakes were allowed starting 2000/01ish.

--------------------------
Suspension
27.15.
Shock absorbers, springs and strut assemblies are free, provided that no modifications are made to the original mounting points beyond what may be required to accommodate the fitting of camber adjusting plates. Notwithstanding the above and excluding those specific angles of adjustment defined as camber and caster, the suspension geometry must remain identical to that as intended, designed and defined by the vehicle manufacturer
27.16.
Front and rear anti-sway bars, including brackets, bushings, hardware and links are free, provided they are bolted in place using the manufacturer's original mounting points.
27.17.
Competitors with vehicles equipped with a weld-in type anti-sway bar must obtain approval in writing from the Series Office before attempting modification.
27.18.
Variable or adjustable suspension mounting points are not permitted unless delivered as original equipment.
27.19.
Sway bars that can be adjusted from the driver's compartment are not permitted.
27.20.
Any suspension or sub-frame bushing may be replaced provided the dimensions of said bushing are identical to that of the original equipment. Installation of such bushings must be accomplished without modification to any other component. Engine and transmission mounts are not considered suspension bushings.
27.21.
No spherical suspension bearings are allowed on suspension mounting points except on shocks and sway bars.
27.22.
A reinforcing bar running from side to side and attached at the top of the front or rear strut or suspension towers is permitted. An additional bar attached at the top of each front strut suspension tower and running to a suitably reinforced common attachment point at the center of the firewall is permitted.
27.23.
Minimum ride height for all cars is five inches (5 in) measured at the rocker panel without fuel and driver.
27.24.
Transmissions, Transaxles, Differentials
27.25.
Both manual and automatic transmissions are eligible.
27.26.
Ratios may not be altered from original equipment specifications as recorded on the Vehicle Information Form.
27.27.
Limited-slip or posi-traction differentials are permitted, only if sold as original equipment on the exact make, model and year of the vehicle entered. Breakaway torque is free.

 

[GJMCAR98]

That's really good stuff Todd. Thanks for putting that up. There are a few things I wasn't aware of. I'm sure there will be some variations but at least we will have some stuff cast in stone now. Anybody have any 2000R front calipers they want to get rid of please send me a PM. Gary

 

[tomshep]

That is great info Todd.

For some reason 2000 is when the rules really relaxed. They went from 16 to 17 rims, most of the interior could be removed, they allowed the 4 piston Alcon's in the 17 rims, canton road race pan, X heads, etc.

Gary, there were a few items they were very insistent on to keep cost down.

The STOCK upper and lower intake had to be used. GT40 cast heads or aluminum GT40 heads were required. No porting on either. Shocks, bars and springs were open. No coil-overs. Stock front a-arms but could replace bushings. Stock rear arms but could replace bushings. No pan bars. No 3 link rear suspensions.

I can look at some of my tech stickers but I believe race weight was 3100 all the way back to 96.

Tom

 

[GJMCAR98]

All I could do was send them my suggestions Tom. I made it clear I wanted no part of making the final decision on anything. Since we had to race these cars for two years with no rules I expect them to go outside the box on a few things that are already in some of the cars. But, I do think they will add a little weight for things like transmission upgrades. I was the first one to want to keep the racing close since my R will be at the track this year with a stock drive trane in it except for a rear gear change. We are also working hard for two classes with the lower glass to include older Firehawk Cars with the smaller engines. Should be fun.

 

[tomshep]

I understand. Cubic dollars often runs up front in all types of racing. How much do you want to spend for the $20 trophy in most cases? Some changes were safety related, others durability and still others for cost. I agree with you, get them the info and they can decide.

Tom

 

[1995COBRA-R]

I agree with you, get them the info and they can decide.

Tom,
Not me. :-D I'll make the rules.

I'd make them so anyone with a small budget could participate. One reason that some vintage racing events have experienced lower car counts is that the cost is just too high.

One example is the 1965-1966 Mustang. SVRA has all of these cars in two classes (AS -rear back seat; and BP -no back seat). You can call Cobra Automotive, and they'll build you a legal engine and transmission for $75,000+. If you add another $50,000+ for the rest of the car, you may be able to run up-front. Don't ask about the annual cost of supporting this car.

I've talked to certain SVRA people-in-charge in the past. I've asked them to add more classes to offer a guy on a budget a chance of glory in winning a $10 trophy? HSR does it. They flat refused my idea so you can guess how many entry fees that I've sent them since then. ;-)

I just checked the SVRA website:
http://www.svra.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Entry-Form.pdf

They are having the Spring Sebring Vintage Classic in March. The entry fee is $550 (if you buy a $195 license). The enduro is $250, and test day (optional) is $275. You'd think that they would have room here for a $10 trophy? :shrug:

My rules for former IMSA, Speedvision, Motorola, GAC cars: (Safety requirements as per those regulations)

We will never change the rules during the year. It's only fair to adjust them once a year. The weight restrictions are as published before (see above). The RPM limits of each car/class may be limited in the future (don't try cheating by spending $45,000 on an engine). No wings.

Group 1. Stock engine, stock transmission, stock brakes, stock wheels, stock suspension, stock interior (you can delete the passenger seat), stock computer. This is for guys that buy a stock 1995 GT and weld in a rollbar. You can't even delete the A/C, but it doesn't have to work. Glass in all four windows.

Group 2. Firehawk. This is as per Firehawk rules. 5.0L maximum (stock c.i. for others) with a stock transmission (we know that guys can put dog-ring gears in a stock case so don't try it). You can gut the interior. 16" X 8" wheels with any brakes that will fit. You can delete the side windows but keep the front and rear glass.

Group 3. Any car based on IMSA Endur., Speedvision, or Motorola Cup rules. The 5.8L will start here. You are going to have to live with the stock Cobra brakes. A 17" wheel is OK. F&R glass windows. I am going with a 7000 RPM limit here. Don't even consider a dry sump engine. No carbon fiber.

Group 4. Grand-Am Cup. You can upgrade to better brakes (Alcon) and those "special' strut/shocks packages of GAC. No carbon fiber or no plastic windows. This class (as is group 3) is to preserve and keep these old race cars on the track.

Notice: Every car that passes tech and finishes one session will be awarded a special vintage trophy. It will name the track and the year of participation.

The owner of the fastest car must sponsor (i.e., you pay for the beer) of the Motorola/Grand-Am Cup party during the weekend.

:read: :-D

 

[1993R]

I like rule #2 it might get me back out on the track again. Since my car is built to that rule

 

[GJMCAR98]

Stay tuned to the HSR Website. I don't think you will be disappointed........GJ