police pursuits....

[munnmotorsports]

there was a show playing last night on tv about police pursuits (car chases in particular). this kid gets pulled over, then decides well NO I'm not gonna stop. he takes off. 30 seconds later he hits a person crossing an intersection. kills his passenger and the passenger in the car he hit. now its time for court. he claims it wasn't his fault he ran, and it was the PD's fault for the girl dying. that if the LEO wouldn't have chased him he would have never hit the girl. now here is his claim for running. he had gotten pulled over twice before, something to have to do with his license plate being wrong (something with the numbers). but both times they figured out it wasn't his fault, it was a computer error and let him go. so here it is the third time he gets pulled and he decides to run. they actually found him not guilty of killing the people, only guilty of running. it almost seems like a no brainer here, he ADMITS to running, ADMITS that it was a bad idea, ADMITS that it was his fault. and he walks with only a year and a half in jail.... heres where it gets worse. attorneys on there were actually trying to say that LEO's should not give chase UNLESS they are a convicted felon, robber, and so on (something "fairly violent"... hey people gotta start their criminal career somewhere. how do we know this isn't the start of it?? that if it is just a minor violation, that they should just let them go. not to mention if they start doing that... then hell, next time i run a red light, i'll just say... nah i don't feel like pulling over, then i'll drive EXTREMELY reckless and like a retard. maybe even take out a few fire hydrants just to show i mean business. then the next time i get pulled, as long as i didn't rob a bank or anything, i'll run again...

so all you LEO's out there... what is your place on this? do you think this is something your department should do? or is it already doing it? I'm pretty sure i already know your answers to a few. just thought i would get your input. me personally... i think its a load of crap!!!

 

[COBRA90GT]

Can of worms...

That being said:

Almost every department out there has some type of a pursuit policy. Some policies forbid chasing for relatively "minor" traffic violations, while others don't. Department policy is based on case law, both federal and local.

The decision to chase and/or terminate can be made by officers, on-duty supervisors/command staff. It all boils down to common sense (is this a suspect who tried to run over an officer, someone with multiple felony warrants, or a person who was doing 5 over the posted limit?).

Pursuits are huge liabilities for departments, the officers themselves, and the municipality/government (read: civil lawsuits when there is an unfavorable result during the pursuit). There are lots of variables to consider when it comes to pursuits.

 

[Iceman II]

To flee from the police here in Texas makes it a felony, so it's on. It does not matter what they did before. Your right its starts somewhere! The officer still has to make a decisions thoughout the pursuit and yes it is a can of worms. the pursuit needs to be terminated as soon as possible and not chase them all over kingdom come. The court system (blaming the police) comes from the defense attorneys. They will say anything and do anything to get their client off of the hook. They know where the money is and it is with the city, county, and state agencies. Not the numb nuts behind the wheel.

 

[Lawfficer]

Who knows whose in the car??? Could very well be jefferey Dahmer, no one knows. And that KId must have had a good lawyer, because if what you wrote was true, and the whole truth... He most certianly is responsible.

The other thing people don't think of is this, Is Police Never Chased anyone, who would ever stop??? There is a point where the risks of the pursuit out weigh the reawrd of catching the person.... but those are to be decieded on a case by case basis.

 

[mvcrash]

there was a show playing last night on tv about police pursuits (car chases in particular). this kid gets pulled over, then decides well NO I'm not gonna stop. he takes off. 30 seconds later he hits a person crossing an intersection. kills his passenger and the passenger in the car he hit. now its time for court. he claims it wasn't his fault he ran, and it was the PD's fault for the girl dying. that if the LEO wouldn't have chased him he would have never hit the girl. now here is his claim for running. he had gotten pulled over twice before, something to have to do with his license plate being wrong (something with the numbers). but both times they figured out it wasn't his fault, it was a computer error and let him go. so here it is the third time he gets pulled and he decides to run. they actually found him not guilty of killing the people, only guilty of running. it almost seems like a no brainer here, he ADMITS to running, ADMITS that it was a bad idea, ADMITS that it was his fault. and he walks with only a year and a half in jail.... heres where it gets worse. attorneys on there were actually trying to say that LEO's should not give chase UNLESS they are a convicted felon, robber, and so on (something "fairly violent"... hey people gotta start their criminal career somewhere. how do we know this isn't the start of it?? that if it is just a minor violation, that they should just let them go. not to mention if they start doing that... then hell, next time i run a red light, i'll just say... nah i don't feel like pulling over, then i'll drive EXTREMELY reckless and like a retard. maybe even take out a few fire hydrants just to show i mean business. then the next time i get pulled, as long as i didn't rob a bank or anything, i'll run again...

so all you LEO's out there... what is your place on this? do you think this is something your department should do? or is it already doing it? I'm pretty sure i already know your answers to a few. just thought i would get your input. me personally... i think its a load of crap!!!

I've investigated many car chases and can offer this:
We have had the "if the cops did not chase, I would not run" defense used by a defendant and it failed. That case the guy killed a person and got 50 yrs for Felony Murder, running from a robbery and Agg. Manslaughter with a 30 year stip.
In NJ, there are very strict pursuit giudelines put forth by the State Attorney General. They are in place to proctect the Police and the citizens, NOT the bad guy.

Chases are dangerous. I've been involved in a few also, and they are not FUN.

 

[Lawman85]

That Atlanta Police Chief went on a news conference a couple of years ago and announced the agency's "No chase policy".. He told the public that they would not chase anyone unless it was a forcible felony or violent crime...what a genuis. About 3 months later, one of our officers gets in a chase (Not Atl PD, but a county agency just north of them), and when we catch the guy and cuff him he says to us "Man!! I got you guys, you ain't allowed to chase me!!!" We then informed him that we are a different agency and we do chase criminals..... he was very disappointed.


Every chase has a huge risk. There are always lives at stake, the officer's, the suspect's, bystanders. My agency believes in PITing the pursuit as soon as it starts at the first opportunity. We also have stop sticks in every car. We believe in chasing, and ending the chase ASAP..... no 3 hour LAPD chases out here, they go into the ditch. We also have to constantly analyze traffic, weather and construction area conditions... I have been in more than one chase that was called off due to these conditions.

 

[mav_tu]

It all boils down to common sense (is this a suspect who tried to run over an officer, someone with multiple felony warrants, or a person who was doing 5 over the posted limit?).

It's funny that you should mention "is this a suspect who tried to run over an officer." Our department used to have a policy that stated that a "vehicle apprehension" could only be initiated if the crime committed was a forcible felony, e.g., Murder, Rape, Car Jacking, Burglary to an Occupied Dwelling, Aggravated Battery, Aggravated Assault, Agg. Bat. on LEO, Agg. Assault on LEO, and a number of other similar offenses.

Recently, the command staff came down and said that vehicle apprehensions initiated from Agg. Bat. on a LEO, or Agg. Assault on a LEO must be with the use of a FIREARM. They determined that a vehicle apprehension could not be initiated if the Battery or Assault was by use of a cutting instrument or a motor vehicle, unless there was "great bodily harm."

Makes lots of sense, right?

 

[MightyMo]

its gotta be very difficult being an officer of the law

all those attitudes from folks you cite or arrest, tough decisions in the heat of the moment, public safety, laws to obey and enforce..

maybe public safety class should be mandatory for everyone getting their license for the first time?

 

[munnmotorsports]

yes this story is tru and correct.... i read it again to make sure.... the guy was suppose to get 50 years in prison if convicted of murder... and about the car... EXACTlY... wat if its a wanted fugitive?? hell hes gonna be WANTED for awhile if he has those kind of odds in his favor!!

 

[Nvp1986]

What I don't understand if what you say is true. You say 30 seconds later he hits the car. Well hell, if the cop didn't chase he would certainly still have been in viewing distance. In other words he would still be in the initial act of fleeing whether the officer was chasing him or not. That moron would not have stopped running by then so how is it the officers fault? As someone said he must have had one hell of a lawyer and the most lenient jury ever. :nonono:

 

[Floridalawdog]

Our new Chief has implemented the "no chase " policy. We can only chase on forcible felonies. We argued it because obviously the Bad Guy isnt running so he doesnt get a ticket for an inoperable tag light. Chief says the reason is that he doesnt want to explain to our families that one of us was killed chasing a guy for a stop sign ticket. I say we became cops for just tjat reason, and we and our families understand and accept the risks that come with putting people in jail.

It really sucks for me. There was nothing cooler than chasing one of these dirtbags for a little bit, then seeing their door open as they slow down to take a turn. Then watching them hop out and run while the car is still going. Knowing they can outrun me, they think they have a chance. Door popper, "Ares, packen", (eat the mofo, to my dog) and watching the old K9 chase down and "catch" the speedy little bad guy. BY the time I clear the car and catch up, Ares was usually full.

 

[mvcrash]

Our new Chief has implemented the "no chase " policy. We can only chase on forcible felonies. We argued it because obviously the Bad Guy isnt running so he doesnt get a ticket for an inoperable tag light. Chief says the reason is that he doesnt want to explain to our families that one of us was killed chasing a guy for a stop sign ticket. I say we became cops for just tjat reason, and we and our families understand and accept the risks that come with putting people in jail.

I understand your Chief. To walk into a home and tell the family that their Husband/Father is not coming home is tough. To tell them he/she is not coming home because he crashed the police car chasing a motor vehicle offender would by horrific.
I also understand your point, no chase rle is not good either. Have to strike a balance some how.

It really sucks for me. There was nothing cooler than chasing one of these dirtbags for a little bit, then seeing their door open as they slow down to take a turn. Then watching them hop out and run while the car is still going. Knowing they can outrun me, they think they have a chance. Door popper, "Ares, packen", (eat the mofo, to my dog) and watching the old K9 chase down and "catch" the speedy little bad guy. BY the time I clear the car and catch up, Ares was usually full.

If you are a K-9 handler, very cool. Nothing better than watching some mutt get chased down by a K-9. Its just flat out cool. I've seen some fast mutts before, but they always seem to be standing still when the K-9 goes out after them.

 

[DEAD EYE]

Our new Chief has implemented the "no chase " policy. We can only chase on forcible felonies. We argued it because obviously the Bad Guy isnt running so he doesnt get a ticket for an inoperable tag light. Chief says the reason is that he doesnt want to explain to our families that one of us was killed chasing a guy for a stop sign ticket. I say we became cops for just tjat reason, and we and our families understand and accept the risks that come with putting people in jail.

It really sucks for me. There was nothing cooler than chasing one of these dirtbags for a little bit, then seeing their door open as they slow down to take a turn. Then watching them hop out and run while the car is still going. Knowing they can outrun me, they think they have a chance. Door popper, "Ares, packen", (eat the mofo, to my dog) and watching the old K9 chase down and "catch" the speedy little bad guy. BY the time I clear the car and catch up, Ares was usually full.

Bad Ass! I wish I had a K-9. :beer:

 

[SVT GT]

They should make an electrical device to shoot at the cars to disable the engine. IMO if the guy runs and is killed one way or the other... good. He knows to stop when a cop is behind him and not engage in pursuit. So he goes and crashes others people lives and taking some on the way and its the cops fault!...Please...The cops should give chase and end it quickly buy what ever means at their disposal. Say, most likey an probally is, hes hoped up on drugs...drunk...kidnapped someone...drug/weapons transporter...raped someone...illegal imagrant...drug dealer...killed someone (maybe your family member)..robbed a bank ... on the most wanted list...or for that matter a terriost with a car load of explosives going to detonate at a certain place. The last is a bit extreme but with whats happing now a days I wouldnt put it past them. I'm all for the cops giving chase, thats their job to catch the bad guys or law breakers. Sorry for the rant but I hate it when the cops are blamed for some jacka$$'s actions!

 

[mav_tu]

There was nothing cooler than chasing one of these dirtbags for a little bit, then seeing their door open as they slow down to take a turn. Then watching them hop out and run while the car is still going.

That's the BEST! I don't have a K9, but boy do I love a good foot pursuit! It's just the paperwork for the Taser deployment that sucks... Packen one of them for me!! :beer:

 

[WTF]

They should make an electrical device to shoot at the cars to disable the engine.

Like in 2fast 2furious?

 

[ConsSVTCobra]

**Removed by Moderator**

Stop your flaming and derogatory comments. They violate this forums guidelines.

No more warnings.

 

[ConsSVTCobra]

its gotta be very difficult being an officer of the law

all those attitudes from folks you cite or arrest, tough decisions in the heat of the moment, public safety, laws to obey and enforce..

maybe public safety class should be mandatory for everyone getting their license for the first time?

**Removed by Moderator**

That was your third strike.

Have a nice day!

 

[Lawman85]

**Removed by Moderator**

This is the 3rd useless post I have read from you this morning.... Why are you in here posting??? Get out..... no one invited you here. You are here to throw out a few Cop Bashing posts, and that's it..... leave.... go....

 

[BrokeUoff]

I don't think consSVT has made a single decent post since he arrived here.....he's probably over in the pics and vids sh!t talking as we speak.