Ping @ 3500 When Cold (stock)

[CCS86]

You would be completely wrong. But hey, you came here asking for help. Oh well. I'll let you trouble shoot this to the moon. And when the dealer and everyone else tells you its normal, then maybe you will believe. Shit, head to the dealer and test drive a cold one. They will all do it. There are people here that work at dealers and drive these on a regular basis cold and have commented on how they do it normally. The cam phasers are at the top front of the valve covers and it takes the oil a little time to get up there.

Otherwise every GT I have been in, including two of my own were "pinging" from the factory....lol I guess you just figured out the #8 issue indirectly....LOLOL.

Just the fact that you are so sure of the cause, without hearing the sound yourself says a lot about your level of "expertise".

Yes, I did ask for input, but you don't have to get butt hurt when I am not on board with your idea.

What kind of background do you have in mechanical things and engines that qualifies you to make flawless diagnosis via the internet? How long is "a little time" for the oil to get to the cam phasers?

 

[SicShelby09]

Just the fact that you are so sure of the cause, without hearing the sound yourself says a lot about your level of "expertise".

Yes, I did ask for input, but you don't have to get butt hurt when I am not on board with your idea.

What kind of background do you have in mechanical things and engines that qualifies you to make flawless diagnosis via the internet? How long is "a little time" for the oil to get to the cam phasers?

ok asshat, ill play. It took 10-15 minutes of slow commuting to get it to quiet down. And we are talking almost nothing throttle% too. I could get it to rattle in neutral with no load on the engine at the same engine speeds. Furthermore, when have you heard of a car pinging at anything less then WOT?? If you were that far on the ragged edge that your car was pinging (detonating) at part throttle, then they motor would have been gone on the first run with it. I would like to face palm for you, because you dont seem to want to listen to reason. So go ahead. Throw some race gas in there, then try it out and I bet you still have the same exact rattle. NOT PINGING.

 

[CPRsm]

Plenty of cars do it at part throttle. Doesn't have to be WOT to have too much cylinder pressure. Buddies stock F-250 did it stock, aftermarket tune fixed it. It's not impossible. Unlikely, but I've seen it more than once

 

[CCS86]

ok asshat, ill play. It took 10-15 minutes of slow commuting to get it to quiet down. And we are talking almost nothing throttle% too. I could get it to rattle in neutral with no load on the engine at the same engine speeds. Furthermore, when have you heard of a car pinging at anything less then WOT?? If you were that far on the ragged edge that your car was pinging (detonating) at part throttle, then they motor would have been gone on the first run with it. I would like to face palm for you, because you dont seem to want to listen to reason. So go ahead. Throw some race gas in there, then try it out and I bet you still have the same exact rattle. NOT PINGING.

Hahaha, I take it that you don't have any credentials to back up your mouth running, since you get all internet agro when someone has a different opinion than you.

Anyone who thinks that it takes 10-15 minutes for oil to fully lubricate the cam phasers, is in fact the "ass hat". You are obviously clueless about complex machines and should listen and learn from those who know more, instead of pretending to be an expert.

Engines can absolutely ping at part throttle. Passing through peak torque rpm (re: peak cylinder pressure) at heavy part throttle has cylinder pressures not drastically lower than at WOT, yet with more spark advance, and leaner fueling.

At least everyone who reads this will know to ignore your advice.

 

[CCS86]

Here's a log from this morning. Coolant temp ~100*, IAT ~67*, pinging in the range I bordered. Fueling looks better today, still happened.

 

[cidsamuth]

These threads will begin to pick up again now that the weather is cooling. For a couple years now, folks have complained about a pinging or knocking when the car was cold (and the weather was cold) until warmed up -- then it ceases like someone hit a switch.

After much forum chatter, Ford came out with the TSB some time back that is advertised to mitigate the noise, though no eliminate it.

Roush axlebacks completely cure the noise

 

[stang8psi]

I'd like to know how you are hearing or even picking up a "ping" sound? Are you running 93? Also the ticking and chattering sound is normal until full operation temp, which is not 100° . Also these cars when stock have a slight stuttering feeling to them, so if that's what your feeling and not picking up knock it's normal as stated before! You just are being paranoid , plus if you read any past threads sometimes after your oil changes it makes ticking sounds.

 

[CPRsm]

Doesn't look like the ecu heard any knock by the timing.
I'd throw in some unleaded race gas to check and take it to the dealer.

 

[CCS86]

I'd like to know how you are hearing or even picking up a "ping" sound? Are you running 93? Also the ticking and chattering sound is normal until full operation temp, which is not 100° . Also these cars when stock have a slight stuttering feeling to them, so if that's what your feeling and not picking up knock it's normal as stated before! You just are being paranoid , plus if you read any past threads sometimes after your oil changes it makes ticking sounds.

It says what gas I'm running early in the original post.

I'm picking up on this sound with my ears. I have been a superbike race mechanic for 7 years and was wrenching on things since I was a kid. I can absolutely distinguish between normal valve/cam chatter, sticky lifters, out of spec valve lash, exhaust leak, rod knock, detonation/ping, etc.

Do you really believe that normal cold engine valvetrain clatter goes from nearly silent, then in a narrow RPM window sounds like a small brick of firecrackers going off, then immediately quiet? Come on guys, think this through.

 

[CCS86]

Doesn't look like the ecu heard any knock by the timing.
I'd throw in some unleaded race gas to check and take it to the dealer.

Agreed. I would expect a sharp step down in spark advance if it saw knock, which makes this even more puzzling.

Maybe I'll stick my gopro under the hood tmrw morning and see if I get a decent sound recording out of it. I'm tempted to make a det-can.

 

[CPRsm]

Knock sensor are usually tuned for a certain frequency. It could just be piston slap as well so it's not getting picked up. Plugs would tell you though, even if the ECU doesn't pick it up.

 

[fake]

Mine does this, however it's between 2600-2800 rpms and only at those rpm's. It's a rattle sound that sounds like a lose heat shield. It lasts about 1 mile and then stops completely.

 

[cidsamuth]

Mine does this, however it's between 2600-2800 rpms and only at those rpm's. It's a rattle sound that sounds like a lose heat shield. It lasts about 1 mile and then stops completely.

Only when cold (or cooler) outside, right? If so, that sounds exactly like what I was talking about. Many, many threads on this noise.

Again, the TSB is supposed to help, but not cure, the problem. Some folks had it really bad, and the YouTube videos make you want to throw up. But, again, it goes away after a short warm-up.

 

[CCS86]

What is the diagnosis, and what is the TSB 'fix'?

 

[fake]

Only when cold (or cooler) outside, right? If so, that sounds exactly like what I was talking about. Many, many threads on this noise.

Again, the TSB is supposed to help, but not cure, the problem. Some folks had it really bad, and the YouTube videos make you want to throw up. But, again, it goes away after a short warm-up.

Yes, only on cold starts. Mine is quiet enough if my radio is on, I can't hear it. Somebody even said it was the cats making the rattle sound until they start heating up. Mine sounds like it comes from the undercarriage instead of from the engine. All I know is it's rpm specific and only ratlles in 1-2 gear for the first mile. Once the car starts to heat up; it completely stops.

 

[mebcop]

LOL, it's not the cats.... I have an offroad x and it still does the same thing. Sounds HORRIBLE, but a lot of people have it, so I don't get too worried.

 

[Swetrid]

What is the diagnosis, and what is the TSB 'fix'?

Printable View (47 KB)
TSB
11-7-4 5.0L - PISTON RATTLE IN COLD AMBIENT TEMPERATURES BELOW 10 DEGREES CELSIUS (50 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT) - BUILT ON OR AFTER 8/17/2010

Publication Date: July 1, 2011

FORD: 2011 Mustang


ISSUE:
Some 2011 Mustang vehicles equipped with a 5.0L engine and built on or after 8/17/2010 may exhibit a piston rattle noise in cold ambient temperatures of 10 degrees Celsius (50 degrees Fahrenheit) and below. The noise normally occurs in the 2000-3500 RPM range and will decrease as engine temperature warms up. An update of the powertrain control module (PCM) calibration to reduce intensity and duration of the noise is now available.

ACTION:
Reprogram the PCM to the latest calibration using IDS release 73.04 or later. This new calibration is not included in the VCM 2011.5 DVD. Calibration files may also be obtained at Buy Motorcraft Parts Online | Official Motorcraft Auto Parts Site | FordParts.com.

NOTE: PLEASE ADVISE THE CUSTOMER THAT THIS VEHICLE IS EQUIPPED WITH AN ADAPTIVE TRANSMISSION SHIFT STRATEGY WHICH ALLOWS THE VEHICLE'S COMPUTER TO LEARN THE TRANSMISSION'S UNIQUE PARAMETERS AND IMPROVE SHIFT QUALITY. WHEN THE ADAPTIVE STRATEGY IS RESET, THE COMPUTER WILL BEGIN A RE-LEARNING PROCESS. THIS RE-LEARNING PROCESS MAY RESULT IN FIRMER THAN NORMAL UPSHIFTS AND DOWNSHIFTS FOR SEVERAL DAYS.




WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
IMPORTANT: Warranty coverage limits/policies are not altered by a TSB. Warranty coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part.

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
110704A 2011 Mustang: Reprogram The PCM (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 0.3 Hr.

DEALER CODING
BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE
RECAL 04

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: The information in Technical Service Bulletins is intended for use by trained, professional technicians with the knowledge, tools, and equipment to do the job properly and safely. It informs these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or provides information that could assist in proper vehicle service. The procedures should not be performed by "do-it-yourselfers". Do not assume that a condition described affects your car or truck. Contact a Ford or Lincoln dealership to determine whether the Bulletin applies to your vehicle. Warranty Policy and Extended Service Plan documentation determine Warranty and/or Extended Service Plan coverage unless stated otherwise in the TSB article. The information in this Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) was current at the time of printing. Ford Motor Company reserves the right to supercede this information with updates. The most recent information is available through Ford Motor Company's on-line technical resources.

Copyright © 2011 Ford Motor Company

 

[SILV03MustangGT]

LOL, it's not the cats.... I have an offroad x and it still does the same thing. Sounds HORRIBLE, but a lot of people have it, so I don't get too worried.

mine does it if i get up to about 3k, i just dont take it above that till the car is warm. I just took my cats off and yup its still there lol.


I wonder what the PCM flash does to reduce piston slap noise.

 

[CCS86]

Ooof, I'm not sure I want that! I'd have to guess that they pull timing, maybe change the VCT strategy... To something more conservative... And over a wide RPM window that covers all the bases.

Mine did it a bit today at 70* ambient.