Outdoor plumbing leak, anyone have suggestions? pics

[byeofcr]

So, heres the deal when we moved in of December '14, the city had to come replace the control valve in front of the house because the old one was broke (January of this year). My water bill stayed consistent from then til now, but noticed in mid may about a small stream of water seeping through the expansion joint on where the bottom of my driveway meets the street. Odd (the only thing "major" to have happened was the earthquake out here around then). This water was before my meter however. I called the city, they came out and looked at it while i was at work according to my wife and drove away. No one called me to let me know what was up. Then i see all the markings painted on the street like they are preparing to work on it. Awesome great.. Nothing has happened since. I called the water company they said the leak was before my meter and that it could take up to a month for them to fix it entirely. Meanwhile, now my water bill jumped up to 140. When I asked them about that, they said they werent responsible for that, since the leak was before my meter.

I walked my entire house and shut off valves to toilets etc, went to the meter and the little red triangle was slowly spinning even though nothing in the house was running. So that means there must be a leak outside somewhere correct? I originally figured it had to be my irrigation system somewhere, but its a constant slow leak. The system is only pressurized when on. So youd have to assume its leaking somewhere from the supply to the house right? I just want to know where to look to start before i start digging holes all over my yard.

The only spot on my property where i see water leaking through, is on the actual apron of my driveway above the spot where the water is sepping through the asphalt and curbage. Theres a constant flow of water down that where it meets the leak on the street, which is also constantly flowing.

this is the view standing in the street facing my house, this is on my apron running down toward my street. its a steady flow of water. the valve is about 15 feet to the right of this on the sidewalk. So if the street is before my meter, this would be too no? or is it leaking from somewhere on my property and chose this spot to seep through? its more than a seep its like having your sink on a light stream.

street view again. I circled the leaks and direction of flow.

So im hoping someone will tell me thats where its leaking, but im confused because its so close to the other leaks on the street and before my meter that im not sure. I was hoping to get someone from teh city to come tell me if they think its all part of their leak, but since its on my property they wont. Every plumber wants a 100 bucks to come out. So before I go that route, seeing if you knowledgeable gentlemen have any insight, where to start looking if thats not spot.

 

[Willie2]

My sprinklers are pressurized all the time. The main feed for my sprinklers taps into the mainline (house supply after meter) and runs to the tree of valves. did you add sprinklers after you moved in? also, if it's leaking before the meter your bill shouldn't have gone up.

 

[MovingZen]

I feel bad for you man, that doesn't look good. It's my understanding that from the meter to your house is your responsibility. Try turning off the water at the meter and see if the water stops flowing up through your driveway. You could try calling no cuts and get your water line marked and then dig it up where it comes out from under your driveway towards your house. Hopefully it will be wet there and the leak isn't under your driveway. Where is this control valve? I'd dig up around that and make sure what they did isn't leaking. Also, how old is your home? My house was two years old when I moved in. We found out quickly that the sewage pipe was shattered under the driveway. The home builder dug up the driveway and repaired it free of charge.
At my old golf course we had a 6" line that went between some houses and under a street. One day I noticed water coming up through the cracks between the side walk and the street. No wires were run with the pipe so we had no way to track the location. We ended up digging up the pipe on both sides, putting in valves, and shutting off that portion of the loop. Another time the city was able to pinpoint a water main leak under one of our fairways by pumping in and detecting a type of gas. They still had to dig 16 feet down but they hit it perfectly. I don't think you want to pay the cost of that.

 

[byeofcr]

My sprinklers are pressurized all the time. The main feed for my sprinklers taps into the mainline (house supply after meter) and runs to the tree of valves. did you add sprinklers after you moved in? also, if it's leaking before the meter your bill shouldn't have gone up.

I have, for vegas anyway, a fairly large grass yard.. i think 7 zones 20-30 heads. Ive changed a few out due to age, etc. But there was no pressure in the line just some residual water. It never filled up the hole after i temoved and replaced a head. Id just scoop the water out, make sure no small rocks or debris fell into the line and install new. Id check for leaks whem the system came on. No issues so far...
As for the meter i agree, and like i said it only drastically rose after this leak popped up. So im assuming theres a leak that the city is responsible for on the street side, but until they come i dont know if itll stop the leak on my driveway.

I feel bad for you man, that doesn't look good. It's my understanding that from the meter to your house is your responsibility. Try turning off the water at the meter and see if the water stops flowing up through your driveway. You could try calling no cuts and get your water line marked and then dig it up where it comes out from under your driveway towards your house. Hopefully it will be wet there and the leak isn't under your driveway. Where is this control valve? I'd dig up around that and make sure what they did isn't leaking. Also, how old is your home? My house was two years old when I moved in. We found out quickly that the sewage pipe was shattered under the driveway. The home builder dug up the driveway and repaired it free of charge.
At my old golf course we had a 6" line that went between some houses and under a street. One day I noticed water coming up through the cracks between the side walk and the street. No wires were run with the pipe so we had no way to track the location. We ended up digging up the pipe on both sides, putting in valves, and shutting off that portion of the loop. Another time the city was able to pinpoint a water main leak under one of our fairways by pumping in and detecting a type of gas. They still had to dig 16 feet down but they hit it perfectly. I don't think you want to pay the cost of that.

Yea they told me they wont touch my property wbich i get and its fine, just wish i knew if wjat they were fixi g would fix whats streaming down my apron. That is all before my meter (i have no water lines on the other side of my driveway. The only thing close by is a sprinkler on the corner of the grass barely visible in the fisrt pic. I just changed that and did not notice any water running out of it.
Thanks for help guys. I do appreciate it. I guess ill get a pick amd shovel and start by the valve (ill try shutting it off first and see)

 

[freakshow12]

Looks like your curbstop is leaking. I do these installs for a living. Sometimes the valve itself piles up or the fittings loosen up. It's a dig up job natter how you look at it. From the street to the shut off valve at your property line is the city's issue. Not yours. There is nothing but a water line from the shutoff to your meter so it's doubtful it's on your end.

 

[DHG1078]

mysterious leaks on your driveway? Your wife is cheating. Time to set up some cameras.



On a serious note, definitely sounds like a leak. Hopefully it's an easy fix.

 

[byeofcr]

Looks like your curbstop is leaking. I do these installs for a living. Sometimes the valve itself piles up or the fittings loosen up. It's a dig up job natter how you look at it. From the street to the shut off valve at your property line is the city's issue. Not yours. There is nothing but a water line from the shutoff to your meter so it's doubtful it's on your end.

Well i guess i can wait and see if what they do stops it, whenever they show up. But if my bill went up and that triangle is spinning that would mean theres a leak somewhere else then? Damnit. I shoulda rented. Lol thanks man.

 

[oldmodman]

I woke up one morning to a flood coming from under the sidewalk in front of my house.

LADWP turned off the water. Checked the pressure and found that the leak was on my side of the meter :mj::mj::mj:, and it would be up to me to fix it.

Called a plumber I knew. With the both of us working we had the lawn dug up, the new pipe hammered under the sidewalk, and all hooked up in about six hours.

My ground under the lawn is hard clay, I had to use a big electric jackhammer to get through it. A sharp shovel wouldn't touch it. The new (American made) copper pipe is buried down over a foot.

So start digging. And get ready to open that wallet.

 

[byeofcr]

ugh its damn near over 100 already out here.. digging should be fun. lol thanks all. Im just gunna start digging when I get home and see what I find.

 

[92BlkGT]

I had the same issue on my old house. Once the frost thawed in the spring the main line running to my house from the city main burst. Heaved my front yard where it was leaking pretty bad and was just running down the street to the sewar. City came out and told me what to do, anything on the other side of the main is my responsibility to fix. And since my house was old enough it had galvanized line running to the house, new code is it has to be copper. So had to run new copper from my house to the street. $2500 later I was good to go. Crazy thing is the city said they would give me 3 weeks before they shut me off and came and did it themselves and bill me. That water was flowing pretty good I was kind of shocked he said 3 weeks haha. Good luck man!

 

[Screw-Rice]

When you say your sprinklers are only pressurized when running, do you mean you have shut in the backflow or just referring to when they're running? Just want to clarify since there is always pressure in your sprinklers when the backflow is open. You might have a mainline (supply to the valves) leak somewhere that found a way to seep at the driveway. If your meter keeps running with the backflow closed than you're good on not worrying about your sprinkler system.

You can shutoff at the meter and see if it continues to leak. If so, I would keep calling to get the city to fix it. $140 is a BIG water bill.

 

[byeofcr]

I dug a hole next to the meter and its all dry for 3 feet either direction. Shut off the sprinkler system (switched to off on panel) and checked the meter and it still spun. Would o manually have to close all the valves to accurately check?

Shut off the meter and the leak.in the driveway was still there.

Ill be honest.on the sprinkler system, when i said not pressurized i came to that when i removed the sprinkler head and siphoned the water out.pf the hole... it never refilled (system was on but not running) so when i say pressurized i meant there was no water running through it to make me think its be comstamtly running. The house was built.in 78, this irrigation system could be that old tho it looks newer. I opened all boxes and no leaks. Gah.. i think im going to have to bite the bullet and call the plumber.

In a plus, the final utility company (gas) came and marked their lines in the street so just waiting on them to start digging.

I called the water company and asked if i could speak w someone about what the repair entailed on their end (how long id be w/o water etc) and if their leak was my leak in the driveway (seems to be as the ot continued for 10 min after i shut the valve off) but like parrots i kept getting the "were not reaponsible for your property" like i know... i get it... i just wamma talk to.someone lol no dice.. hopefully ill catch them on a day off.

Seriously thank you.. ive been pretty pissed all day

 

[TK Doom]

is the leak at the control valve? Granted if its on your side its your responsibility, but if they did work to it, maybe you can get them to help with the costs, or do it completely?

 

[Screw-Rice]

I dug a hole next to the meter and its all dry for 3 feet either direction. Shut off the sprinkler system (switched to off on panel) and checked the meter and it still spun. Would o manually have to close all the valves to accurately check?

Shut off the meter and the leak.in the driveway was still there.

Ill be honest.on the sprinkler system, when i said not pressurized i came to that when i removed the sprinkler head and siphoned the water out.pf the hole... it never refilled (system was on but not running) so when i say pressurized i meant there was no water running through it to make me think its be comstamtly running. The house was built.in 78, this irrigation system could be that old tho it looks newer. I opened all boxes and no leaks. Gah.. i think im going to have to bite the bullet and call the plumber.

In a plus, the final utility company (gas) came and marked their lines in the street so just waiting on them to start digging.

I called the water company and asked if i could speak w someone about what the repair entailed on their end (how long id be w/o water etc) and if their leak was my leak in the driveway (seems to be as the ot continued for 10 min after i shut the valve off) but like parrots i kept getting the "were not reaponsible for your property" like i know... i get it... i just wamma talk to.someone lol no dice.. hopefully ill catch them on a day off.

Seriously thank you.. ive been pretty pissed all day

The way you checked for a sprinkler leak is...not accurate, lol.

You need to shut your main water off where it splits from your household plumbing, or go to your backflow and shut the vales in. You have a main line that feeds to the zone valves when activated. The main line is always pressurized unless the main or backflow are closed.
Here are a couple visuals.

 

[01GTB]

You need to find the irrigation control valves. A failed diaphragm can leak water constantly. If you are watering regularly it might be a little tough to find. If its off a few days, you will notice heads that still have dampness around them. Another possibility is leaking at the valve itself. This will be apparent. But if they are below ground it's possible you might never notice it though.

 

[byeofcr]

Lol im new to all this homeowner stuff so thanks for the advice and diagram. The sprinklers are kicking on now and i went and took some pics of the boxes they all appeared dry, albeit im not so sure just leaving wires wire nutted in a box like that is cool. I dunno anyway box one (ignore the wetspot above had my hose running earlier nd the dark spot on the t's its a stain i checked)

Box 2

Box 3

And this valve.. the spigot drips above it on the wall which is why the ground is wet, but it has since we moved in. Im changing that out after i find this leak.

Also the pipe running from meter is pvc. Is that normal? (This is to the right of the meter just past the sidewalk before i made the hole bigger

 

[Screw-Rice]

PVC is common pipe for irrigation main line. Poly is the standard going from the valve through the zone. Then depending on your sprinkler setup each is either tapped or they used swing line.
Your backflow is ancient, haha. That needs to be shut (the knob on the top) so there is zero water running to any of your irrigation, then see if it's still leaking at the driveway. You can be sure you're not getting any water by manually opening one o the zone by twisting the solenoid on top of the valve (the one with the wires going to it). May take a few minutes for the remainder to leak out at the driveway if it is the cause of your leak.

Also don't worry about the wire nuts, they are a standard for wiring. They have silicon in them to make them water resistant.

 

[01GTB]

If you should find a valve that is letting water by (bad diaphragm) they will be serviced by Irritrol 205 service parts. Honestly you can buy the whole valve for not much more than the diaphragm itself and you will get a new solenoid too. Just remove screws and replace the whole top end. Most of them look like old Richdels or Lawn Genies with newer Irritrol top ends on them already. They're all the same. Oh, make sure the water is off or you will be in for some excitement :thumbsup:

 

[byeofcr]

Copy that. I heard other guys talkin about galvanized and copper piping i saw pvc from the meter and was like is that supposed to be pvc? Lol
Will try this tomoro. Thanks guys!

 

[01GTB]

Everything here in Florida, from the meter to the house, for the last 35 + years has been pvc. Provided it is not exposed and cement-welded connections were proper, it's fine.