OT alignment, brake fitment, & tire questions.

Tobias

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Hello, My car is an 04 cobra that is driven on the street and open track.
I run at a 1.65 mile, 14 turn course with the average lap times in the 1:40's. I have done two weekends now and have some basic car set up questions:
I have mm c/c plates & k frame brace, no bump steer kit, & Anthony's brake cooling ducts.
alignment set up is:
4.5* caster
1.1 camber right
1.0 camber left
toe is .25* in
I feather edged my new nitto 555 street tires at the last event, is 0* toe enough, or should I set the toe out?

Will the brembo 4 piston caliper clear stock terminator wheels?

Would the falken azien 615 be a good affordable (relatively speaking) track tire for this heavy car? I don't think I want to run a r-compound tire with the stock pbr calipers if the brembos won't clear stock wheels. I already melted the dust boots in the front calipers with the POS hawk hps brake pads. I am going to install O.E. pads before the next event in june.

Any help, or comments are greatly apreciated!
 

ac427cobra

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Tobias said:
Hello, My car is an 04 cobra that is driven on the street and open track.
I run at a 1.65 mile, 14 turn course with the average lap times in the 1:40's. I have done two weekends now and have some basic car set up questions:
I have mm c/c plates & k frame brace, no bump steer kit, & Anthony's brake cooling ducts.
alignment set up is:
4.5* caster
1.1 camber right
1.0 camber left
toe is .25* in
I feather edged my new nitto 555 street tires at the last event, is 0* toe enough, or should I set the toe out?

Will the brembo 4 piston caliper clear stock terminator wheels?

Would the falken azien 615 be a good affordable (relatively speaking) track tire for this heavy car? I don't think I want to run a r-compound tire with the stock pbr calipers if the brembos won't clear stock wheels. I already melted the dust boots in the front calipers with the POS hawk hps brake pads. I am going to install O.E. pads before the next event in june.

Any help, or comments are greatly apreciated!

You didn't mention springs, so I'm going to assume you don't have any.

Caster you'll want to max out at whatever you can get. Driving on the street won't much matter there.

If you're running a traditional road course you're going to want a bit more camber in your LF. Possibly less in your RF.

You can try just a tick out on toe in the front. That will get you a better response at turn in. You didn't mention rear settings but you'd probably benefit from slight toe in back there.

4 pot Brembo's will clear a Terminator wheel no problem.

The biggest and most economical improvement you can do to your suspension would be to remove all rubber and or poly in the IRS assembly. (shamless plug for info in sig.)

Good Luck!

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:
 

Tobias

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Stock springs,
rear alignment is .8* negative caster & .25* total toe in.
Thanks for info on the brembos, Ford racing tech line sez that they wont clear 17's....that sounded wrong to me. Some boob just quoting the catalog I suppose.....
 

TroyV

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Tobias said:
Stock springs,
rear alignment is .8* negative caster & .25* total toe in.
Thanks for info on the brembos, Ford racing tech line sez that they wont clear 17's....that sounded wrong to me. Some boob just quoting the catalog I suppose.....

Definitely a boob on the phone. The four pots fit behind 17x9: 10th anni, 95R, FR 500 knock offs, and 03 style, both in legit and replica form. They WILL NOT fit behind Bullitt style legit or replica without a spacer.

+1 on the slight toe out. The improvement of the feel at turn-in pays back in spades.

On the RT615's.. I LOVE these tires. I use them as my regular street tire and also for rain events. At full tread depth, they can slice through standing water like a knife, and at 220 treadware, they are very sticky for a street tire. I have almost 20k on my first set and I'm just getting to the wear bars now. Excellent tire!
 
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MFE

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You have to be careful maxing out the caster because it can raise the steering arm high enough to create a significant bumpsteer issue. You're probably fine where it is.

However the thing that screams out at me on those specs is the camber...Not enough by a long shot. Hell I run more than that on the street. For the track you'll want AT LEAST 2 degrees negative or as much as your plates will give you up to 2.5 degrees or so, or you'll wear out the outer edges of the tires, not to mention falling far short of using their full potential. Be sure to poke the strut bumper down through the hole in the strut tower first.

Also 1/4 inch of toe-in is excessive. Shoot for more like 1/16th to 3/32 at your street camber setting. When you dump the camber in for the track it'll toe out to zero or so. Measure how far each strut top is from its neighboring fender edge and you can put them right back where they were after the event.
 

Tobias

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Troy, Thanks for the detailed info on the brembo brakes!
I am glad to hear an endorsement from a mustang owner on the rt615 tires.

MFE: Believe it or not, I did not have excess wear on the out side of the tires, just way nasty feather edge on all the tread blocks, the outside edge was very good. and yes .25 degree, not inch.

also, .1 degree out for toe sound good? Thanks!!
 

Tobias

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Quote:
When you dump the camber in for the track it'll toe out to zero or so. Measure how far each strut top is from its neighboring fender edge and you can put them right back where they were after the event.

Excellent idea!! I am going to play with that on the alignment rack. Thanks!!
 

nightstalker865

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Tobias said:
Quote:
When you dump the camber in for the track it'll toe out to zero or so. Measure how far each strut top is from its neighboring fender edge and you can put them right back where they were after the event.

Excellent idea!! I am going to play with that on the alignment rack. Thanks!!


Where do you have to have the toe set to make this work? I didn't know if 0 degrees toe would cause an uneasy feeling on high speed straights.
 

MFE

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ac427cobra said:
I believe he referred to it as .25 degrees in! :-D
That's what I meant, I typed too fast. Either way it's excessive IMHO.
 
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MFE

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03SteedaGT said:
Where do you have to have the toe set to make this work? I didn't know if 0 degrees toe would cause an uneasy feeling on high speed straights.

What you're doing is managing deflection of the A-arm. A little bit of toe-in, to zero toe-in, is ideal for high-speed braking. The more toe-out you have under braking the more unstable it'll be, and it's then, when braking forces are high, that the the A-arms are deflecting backward and the front suspension is compressed, that you'll add the most dynamic toe-out. So if you have stock rubber bushings in the A-arms you want some static toe-in, that way it'll toe out to less "in" or zero or very little "out". 1/4 inch toe-in is more than you can expect even the hardest high-speed braking to zero out, IMHO.

What works best for your car is individual to your car, but too much static toe-in makes the car quite darty just off center. As you come off-center you load the outside tire...if that tire is toe'd in, all of a sudden it wants to add a turning force in the direction you're already going. You correct, the weight goes the other way, it wants to steer the opposite direction.

Toe-out aids turn-in at the very beginning of the turn and IMHO it's overrated. Trail-braking works better ;)
 

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