Ordering Hoosier R6 to use on the street... am I crazy?

[guarnibl]

My forgestar's show up next week.

I did 19x10 +38 front 19x11 +52 rear.

I went to order Toyo Proxes R888 today and they're three months out. Given that I'm in the southwest and we're going to be in the 100+ degree days for the next 3 months (June, July, August), along with the fact that we're sunny almost every day which produces typical 150 degree pavement temperatures -- I think I'm going to pull the trigger and order a set of Hoosier R6's for the street -- 295/30ZR19 and 315/30ZR19.

I drive the car one day a week...and while we do get rain once a month -- I can plan around that easily enough.

I've seen a few people online with Z06's who run R6's constantly -- granted, they only get 3,000 miles out of them, but nonetheless they do it. Most of those people are in SoCal/PHX. If I can really get even 1,500 miles (with consistent grip) out of these tires, I think I would be pretty happy as I'm only putting on ~300 miles a month.

Is there anything that I'm missing here -- Hoosier's own documentation show the R6's ideal operating temperature to be 180-200 and for the A6 110-140. I'll likely heat cycle out the A6's too fast even with street driving given the extreme temperatures we see here in Phoenix in the summer. Am I mistaken to think that within a few minutes of driving in 90+ degree weather that my tire temperatures will be well into the 100's, and easily up to the pavement temperature (150+) in the middle of the day?

I can't find anything comparable to the R888's (I don't want a drag radial) in the sizes I need... my only other thought was the Pilot Sport Cups. However, I don't think they will give me as much grip -- and if the R6 will really last me through summers... I think the correct tire is still the R6 (assuming I set camber to -2 or so and run them at proper PSI).

In winter I'll probably run Super Sports (or A6 even?)... as we still see consistent 70+ degrees in November - April.

Am I crazy to be considering this? Everything I'm researching shows me I should be OK given my situation but so many people say don't ever try it... but I think most of those people live in colder states with sketchier weather.

Discount tire also would sell me their hazard warranty (haha) on those tires. Crazy for them to do that considering puncture resistance but if they're going to do it.....that takes care of that concern I had.

 

[USNjocson]

I say go for it since the R888's are 3 months out. But cant you buy the toyo's elsewhere? I thoroughly enjoy mine but I have yet to experience R6's

 

[senderofan]

You might want to bump your camber closer to...if not -3.0 degrees. Hoosier recommends -3.0 for their slicks. That's what I have mine dialed in at and there is very even wear and stable temps across the tire. I've driven my slicks on the road very sparingly....worst thing for me is they pick up and throw sand /grit and at times it sounds like you're sandblasting the fender wells.

One last thing.....tire pressures. You'll need to check them fairly often. Mine can drop several pounds over night also temp sensitive with the drop....and my rims do not have any damage or flaws...slicks just seem to leak more than street tires. I'm running 305mm-650X18" and I start with cold pressure of @ 28-29 pounds.

Sounds like you can legally use slicks in your area.....the grip ( at least on a track for me ) will absolutely impress you!

Good Luck,

Wayne

 

[guarnibl]

You might want to bump your camber closer to...if not -3.0 degrees. Hoosier recommends -3.0 for their slicks. That's what I have mine dialed in at and there is very even wear and stable temps across the tire. I've driven my slicks on the road very sparingly....worst thing for me is they pick up and throw sand /grit and at times it sounds like you're sandblasting the fender wells.

One last thing.....tire pressures. You'll need to check them fairly often. Mine can drop several pounds over night also temp sensitive with the drop....and my rims do not have any damage or flaws...slicks just seem to leak more than street tires. I'm running 305mm-650X18" and I start with cold pressure of @ 28-29 pounds.

Sounds like you can legally use slicks in your area.....the grip ( at least on a track ) will absolutely impress you!

Good Luck,

Wayne

Thanks! I'll be sure to note the camber level of -3.0 and the PSI. You're running a 305 on a 10" wide wheel... does this give you any problems? Seems like that's too narrow of a wheel to run that size tire, though only by a small amount.

I say go for it since the R888's are 3 months out. But cant you buy the toyo's elsewhere? I thoroughly enjoy mine but I have yet to experience R6's

Nope, national back order. Tire Rack and Discount Tire were both saying it was impossible to get them anywhere and both said 3+ months. Toyo was 1.5 months out on all of their MTs (need tires for my truck too). Ended up having to do 35" AT2s. I think it's just a Toyo problem. Maybe someone should let them know they need to make more tires

 

[darreng505]

Hoosier warns you NOT to run those dot competition tires on the street. See their website for details.

 

[R.D.P.]

Yes, I think it's a little nuts. If it were me I would just go with Nitto 555's. Some drop in performance, I can't imagine it's that much, and you save some cash.

 

[guarnibl]

Hoosier warns you NOT to run those dot competition tires on the street. See their website for details.

Yeah, I'm aware. That's why I was asking, "Am I crazy?" =) I'm aware of the risks. My understanding based on the warning is primarily due to concerns with weather and road conditions. We have some of the best roads in the USA out here in AZ -- those concerns that Hoosier warns about are essentially non-existent here in Phoenix. I'll read up a bit more though to see if I can find something else that I'm not aware of regarding the warning. But assuming I'm not missing anything -- then the warning is not applicable to me given the conditions I would be driving in.

Yes, I think it's a little nuts. If it were me I would just go with Nitto 555's. Some drop in performance, I can't imagine it's that much, and you save some cash.

I ran those on my previous Mustang and wouldn't run them on my car if someone paid me to (your experience was likely different -- but this was about a year 1/2 ago out here in AZ, perhaps climate played a role). My experience was the tire lasted quite a while, but the performance was absolutely horrible. I switched out to Hankook V12's and the performance increase was massive. Right now I'm running the Corsa's up front and NT05R's out back, but it's not enough performance and a huge drop in handling characteristics. The only street tire I would consider (which isn't really a street tire IMO) is a either a Trofeo R or Sport Cups. True street tire would be the Super Sport but I rather run something that's R compound. Is there a reason you're suggesting an NT555 vs the R6? Edit: does seem like a ton of people like them. Maybe I just got a bad set.

 

[darreng505]

Yeah, I'm aware. That's why I was asking, "Am I crazy?" =) I'm aware of the risks. My understanding based on the warning is primarily due to concerns with weather and road conditions. We have some of the best roads in the USA out here in AZ -- those concerns that Hoosier warns about are essentially non-existent here in Phoenix. I'll read up a bit more though to see if I can find something else that I'm not aware of regarding the warning. But assuming I'm not missing anything -- then the warning is not applicable to me given the conditions I would be driving in.



I ran those on my previous Mustang and wouldn't run them on my car if someone paid me to (your experience was likely different -- but this was about a year 1/2 ago out here in AZ, perhaps climate played a role). My experience was the tire lasted quite a while, but the performance was absolutely horrible. I switched out to Hankook V12's and the performance increase was massive. Right now I'm running the Corsa's up front and NT05R's out back, but it's not enough performance and a huge drop in handling characteristics. The only street tire I would consider (which isn't really a street tire IMO) is a either a Trofeo R or Sport Cups. True street tire would be the Super Sport but I rather run something that's R compound. Is there a reason you're suggesting an NT555 vs the R6? Edit: does seem like a ton of people like them. Maybe I just got a bad set.

Well if youre expert enough to interpret hoosiers warning and determine it doesnt apply to your situation (in fact it really does) then you dont need our opinion. But fwiw dont do it. There are ample reasons not to all safety related. Call hoosier for a professional explanation.

 

[guarnibl]

Well if youre expert enough to interpret hoosiers warning and determine it doesnt apply to your situation (in fact it really does) then you dont need our opinion. But fwiw dont do it. There are ample reasons not to all safety related. Call hoosier for a professional explanation.

I appreciate your (everyone's) concerns -- I really do, and this is exactly why I was asking -- I'm by no means an expert. I'm for sure making assumptions, and that's why I indicated I was going to do more research (I wouldn't have posted this thread if I didn't want people's opinions regardless if they differed from my own or not). I think calling Hoosier is an excellent idea, and will take that advice. Perhaps I shouldn't have said it doesn't apply in my situation, but rather -- the risks are minimized vs, say, operating the tire on a public roadway in the mid-western United States where it's likely to rain, etc.

I'm basing all my information off their warning, which states that operating their tire on a public roadway can result in "loss of traction, unexpected loss of vehicle control, or sudden loss of tire pressure." It sounds like from what you're saying that my interpretation is wrong -- which may be the case. But I assume these all come from the fact that under an auto-x/road course -- the road conditions are more under control, where a public roadway they are not. And I 100% agree with that. I have no doubt that it's dangerous if a variable that would come up that you need to avoid (weather, road hazard/potholes, uneven surfaces, etc). I.e., loss of pressure from a pothole or nail (there's less puncture resistance in a race slick), weather (rain resulting in instant hydroplaning), road conditions (not sure what exactly would cause an accident from this? not saying it can't, just couldn't come up with something off the top of my head that wouldn't fall into the road hazard category).


I'll talk with Hooser tomorrow and try to better understand. Perhaps I'm not taking these warnings seriously enough and should just run Pilot Sport Cups. Going to try to at least swap my NT05R's over to my new wheels and see how they do after a burnout as well. Perhaps stretching them out from a 9.5" wheel to an 11" wheel will fix the handling characteristics.

 

[R.D.P.]

Yeah, I'm aware. That's why I was asking, "Am I crazy?" =) Is there a reason you're suggesting an NT555 vs the R6? Edit: does seem like a ton of people like them. Maybe I just got a bad set.

Just a popular bang for the buck high performance tire. They work for me, I currently have them on the front only though. Even though I'm not convinced the R888's are as good as people say, I still do want a set for the rear so I can find out for myself. As for the Michelin's - overpriced IMO.

 

[guarnibl]

Just a popular bang for the buck high performance tire. They work for me, I currently have them on the front only though. Even though I'm not convinced the R888's are as good as people say, I still do want a set for the rear so I can find out for myself. As for the Michelin's - overpriced IMO.

Gotcha. Just looked really fast as well and it looks like the largest size in a 19" wheel that is available is a 275. Super Sports are no doubt expensive. I do however feel they deliver a lot of value for the price where other tires fall short. But not everyone needs that level of all around performance, either and in those cases that value that the tire offers isn't really seen by the consumer.

We'll see how the R888's do. I think what I'm going to do for the time being is run (against my own judgement) the Super Sports up front (295/30ZR19) and Toyo Proxes R888 (325/30ZR19) out back. It was the 295 in the R888's that are on national back order. I hate running two manufacturer tires -- but I'll just place the order now for the 295 R888's and when they come in I'll sell my MPSS's (hopefully won't be too long). Should be easy enough to unload a pair of 295/30ZR19 Super Sports with less than 1,000 miles on them.

 

[5 DOT 0]

Yes you're crazy! ;-)

Have you looked at the Pirelli Trefeo R? This is the same tire that the new Z/28 comes with and they have sizes that will work on your wheels. Not quite the performance of R6's but should last a bit longer.

285/35/19
305/30/19

http://www.bobwoodmantires.com/p-zero-trofeo/

 

[senderofan]

Thanks! I'll be sure to note the camber level of -3.0 and the PSI. You're running a 305 on a 10" wide wheel... does this give you any problems? Seems like that's too narrow of a wheel to run that size tire, though only by a small amount.

Nope...the 305mm Conti's / Hoosiers fit very well. I've read that these particular slicks might have a width of popular 295mm street tires......but I can't remember where I read that. In any event....I absolutely love the Team Dynamic wheels ( Thank you Pufferfish ) and with the slicks.....the grip on the track is best described as "Breath taking"....when compared to the lowly P Zero's.

I drove my stickered slicks on the road only long enough to scuff them and get a minimal amount of heat into them. My "Local track" is three hours away. Hoosier has a break in regimen for the slicks. If they aren't broken in properly...I guess they wear very prematurely.

What ever you decide.....Stay safe! Just wanted to share a couple of things I learned about these wonderful slicks......I'm having difficulty contemplating driving on the track with street tires ever again. Well...I did that in mid May.....but it was raining heavily and the P Zero's had about as much grip as if I were running the slicks ( tongue in cheek....but seriously...the Pirelli's did Not inspire confidence.)

Wayne

 

[guarnibl]

Yes you're crazy! ;-)

Have you looked at the Pirelli Trefeo R? This is the same tire that the new Z/28 comes with and they have sizes that will work on your wheels. Not quite the performance of R6's but should last a bit longer.

285/35/19
305/30/19

http://www.bobwoodmantires.com/p-zero-trofeo/

Wow... Tire Rack only had them in 305's. That site says they have them in 325 out back as well. I've got an 11" wide wheel out back, so it looks like I can run Trofeo R's in 295/30ZR19 and 325/30ZR19. I'm going to do some more research on these. Still would like to have a set of tires I can drive to the track and on the street... so still leaning towards buying a set of R6's just for the hell of it.

So what I did for now (yesterday) was order Toyo Proxy R888 325/30ZR19's out back since cold traction is supposed to be pretty good and many people claim they dead hook even in milder operating temperatures. I couldn't get them up front, so I ordered Toyo Proxes 1 up front in 295/30ZR19. Additionally, the R888's are supposed to be safer for street driving compared to R6/A6 (obviously). As such I'm less prone to punctures/etc. These will do alright for fall/winter/spring as well -- so I think either way it's a safe purchase. I'll probably get some front R888's in 295/30ZR19 as soon as possible (I think they said there was a month or two back order at the moment).

 

[guarnibl]

Nope...the 305mm Conti's / Hoosiers fit very well. I've read that these particular slicks might have a width of popular 295mm street tires......but I can't remember where I read that. In any event....I absolutely love the Team Dynamic wheels ( Thank you Pufferfish ) and with the slicks.....the grip on the track is best described as "Breath taking"....when compared to the lowly P Zero's.

I drove my stickered slicks on the road only long enough to scuff them and get a minimal amount of heat into them. My "Local track" is three hours away. Hoosier has a break in regimen for the slicks. If they aren't broken in properly...I guess they wear very prematurely.

What ever you decide.....Stay safe! Just wanted to share a couple of things I learned about these wonderful slicks......I'm having difficulty contemplating driving on the track with street tires ever again. Well...I did that in mid May.....but it was raining heavily and the P Zero's had about as much grip as if I were running the slicks ( tongue in cheek....but seriously...the Pirelli's did Not inspire confidence.)

Wayne

Thanks! The 305 fitting more like a 295 street tire makes sense then -- typically a 305 would only fit on a 10.5" wheel. How many miles have you put on the street with your slicks? Were you ever worried driving them? Any handling or concerns with them on the street? You said 3 hours away so I assume you trailered. I can do that -- just prefer not to. I have a trailer, but I can't park it at my house, so it's a PITA and I only typically use it to trailer my Jeep out to Moab, UT (driving a jeep on 42's 8 hours isn't too much fun).

 

[senderofan]

Thanks! The 305 fitting more like a 295 street tire makes sense then -- typically a 305 would only fit on a 10.5" wheel. How many miles have you put on the street with your slicks? Were you ever worried driving them? Any handling or concerns with them on the street? You said 3 hours away so I assume you trailered. I can do that -- just prefer not to. I have a trailer, but I can't park it at my house, so it's a PITA and I only typically use it to trailer my Jeep out to Moab, UT (driving a jeep on 42's 8 hours isn't too much fun).

Realistically......I probably put on @ 50 ( gentle ) miles of street use. For me....slicks are not legal here...so if I was to be involved in an accident...I would bear 100% of the responsibility.

As far as drivability issues.....Only at the track when I was down a few pounds in pressure. I went from 29....to @ 20 over night. But the temps had dropped significantly as well. I hadn't run the slicks....and thought the pressures should be fine since it was less than 24 hours since I checked them cold. Went on the track......very uneasy floating type feeling. Not at all crisp...which concerned me. Once I brought the pressures up....it was Amazing! Great transmission of feeling...in the seat of the pants...very crisp handling and waaaaaay more grip. This allowed me to carry more speed and drive deeper into the corners.

As far as trailering....Yes with slicks. I wouldn't want to drive 3 hours through back country on slicks.

I can't recall what your suspension upgrades are??? But you'll want to make sure your set up is ready for squared slicks. With a stock set up...I believe you'd be prone to snap oversteer.

Wish you well.....keep us posted on your progress,

Wayne

 

[guarnibl]

Realistically......I probably put on @ 50 ( gentle ) miles of street use. For me....slicks are not legal here...so if I was to be involved in an accident...I would bear 100% of the responsibility.

As far as drivability issues.....Only at the track when I was down a few pounds in pressure. I went from 29....to @ 20 over night. But the temps had dropped significantly as well. I hadn't run the slicks....and thought the pressures should be fine since it was less than 24 hours since I checked them cold. Went on the track......very uneasy floating type feeling. Not at all crisp...which concerned me. Once I brought the pressures up....it was Amazing! Great transmission of feeling...in the seat of the pants...very crisp handling and waaaaaay more grip. This allowed me to carry more speed and drive deeper into the corners.

As far as trailering....Yes with slicks. I wouldn't want to drive 3 hours through back country on slicks.

I can't recall what your suspension upgrades are??? But you'll want to make sure your set up is ready for squared slicks. With a stock set up...I believe you'd be prone to snap oversteer.

Wish you well.....keep us posted on your progress,

Wayne

Thanks! This is really helpful information.

Suspension setup right now is the Ford P Springs, MM Bumpsteer Kit, MM Caster Camber Plates, FRPP Relocation Brackets (for LCAs), FRPP Relocation LCA's, and FRPP Adj. Panhard Bar. I've got the differential cover and torque arm from Cortex coming as well. Still finishing cooling upgrades so I can keep the temperatures at a reasonable level for 25 minute sessions, though I'm not sure if that's reasonable -- if it isn't, I'll pull the supercharger and get some N/A cams (let's be honest, there won't be that much difference between ~525 rwhp and ~600 rwhp in terms of being able to put it to the ground). Brakes are still a concern... haven't determined yet what I'm doing regarding that route yet... certainly stainless lines, fluid, pads, and brake ducts (can custom build some). Personally I think the rear only having a single piston caliper is kind of silly, but Ford's 302S/R all use them, so they can't be that bad (especially considering it only accounts for 30% of braking anyway).

I think having the R888's will be a good compromise for the time being -- and it's more reason for me to buy a set of 4x 18x10.50's with 4x R6 315/30ZR18, which will work great with the large offset struts that Cortex sells.

 

[senderofan]

Thanks! This is really helpful information.

Suspension setup right now is the Ford P Springs, MM Bumpsteer Kit, MM Caster Camber Plates, FRPP Relocation Brackets (for LCAs), FRPP Relocation LCA's, and FRPP Adj. Panhard Bar. I've got the differential cover and torque arm from Cortex coming as well. Still finishing cooling upgrades so I can keep the temperatures at a reasonable level for 25 minute sessions, though I'm not sure if that's reasonable -- if it isn't, I'll pull the supercharger and get some N/A cams (let's be honest, there won't be that much difference between ~525 rwhp and ~600 rwhp in terms of being able to put it to the ground). Brakes are still a concern... haven't determined yet what I'm doing regarding that route yet... certainly stainless lines, fluid, pads, and brake ducts (can custom build some). Personally I think the rear only having a single piston caliper is kind of silly, but Ford's 302S/R all use them, so they can't be that bad (especially considering it only accounts for 30% of braking anyway).

I think having the R888's will be a good compromise for the time being -- and it's more reason for me to buy a set of 4x 18x10.50's with 4x R6 315/30ZR18, which will work great with the large offset struts that Cortex sells.

If you're running stock sway bars....you might consider removing the rear...if running slicks. I've got my rear adjustable on the lightest and the front on the third firmest of four holes.....seems to be very balanced with this setting.

Cooling ducts....for sure. I purchased a kit from Blowfish Racing. Steve is an enthusiast and an engineer....he builds high quality stuff at very reasonable prices...you might want to check his stuff out before trying to build your own.

As far as the amount of power that you're speaking of.....Optimistically my rig is putting down @ 420- 430 rwhp. I think I'm right where I need to be in terms of what the suspension and brakes can handle, along with the drivers. I'm not sure what an additional 100-170 hp would do for me? I think that would be an additional variable to try and control on the track. I've heard other guys that were boosted complain about severe power induced oversteer in corners when trying to put the throttle down. Guess a guy would have to get used to it.....tough problem to have I'm sure .

Wayne

 

[Jabooh1]

I had Khumo V710's on a car before in Texas. When they got too bad for auto cross I would run them on the street. I'm in south Texas so long periods of super hot dry heat. Stuck like glue. I don't think they would be good with bad roads though. Might pop a beed or loose air faster.

 

[guarnibl]

If you're running stock sway bars....you might consider removing the rear...if running slicks. I've got my rear adjustable on the lightest and the front on the third firmest of four holes.....seems to be very balanced with this setting.

Cooling ducts....for sure. I purchased a kit from Blowfish Racing. Steve is an enthusiast and an engineer....he builds high quality stuff at very reasonable prices...you might want to check his stuff out before trying to build your own.

As far as the amount of power that you're speaking of.....Optimistically my rig is putting down @ 420- 430 rwhp. I think I'm right where I need to be in terms of what the suspension and brakes can handle, along with the drivers. I'm not sure what an additional 100-170 hp would do for me? I think that would be an additional variable to try and control on the track. I've heard other guys that were boosted complain about severe power induced oversteer in corners when trying to put the throttle down. Guess a guy would have to get used to it.....tough problem to have I'm sure .

Wayne

I'll have to see how the power does through the turns... only thing i could think of would be staying in a taller gear. Power on the street isn't really usable at the moment -- thus the suspension changes (and honestly -- I'll probably end up just removing the blower and sell it to do the rest of the suspension stuff I want to do). I chose a panhard bar because a Watts Link is drastically more expensive and was hoping that the combination of the Panhard Bar and the Torque Arm would be enough forward grip.

I'll try removing the sway bar out back and see how it feels... alternatively an aftermarket sway bar isn't too expensive. I was considering picking up the stranos front one. What's your dampener settings? Or are you running aftermarket?

I had Khumo V710's on a car before in Texas. When they got too bad for auto cross I would run them on the street. I'm in south Texas so long periods of super hot dry heat. Stuck like glue. I don't think they would be good with bad roads though. Might pop a beed or loose air faster.

Good to hear. I'll be buying a set of R6's anyway -- might try them after they're worn. I've got a solid 4 months or so before the season starts up again out here anyway. No one wants to run their cars in 100 degrees -- and I don't really feel all that great about waking up at 4 AM to go to a race course.