o2 sensor help

[dudesqueak]

Well, got the car tuned. If you didn't see my last thread: 5.4L MMR block, t-56, kooks headers, o/r x pipe, magnaflow magnapacks, procharger kit ~ 6-8 psi (not sure yet). Car was getting less than 3 mpg. Can you say RICH??? Took the car to the shop. No vacuum leaks, but turns out the PO tried to tune the car himself. Did it with an SCT tuner i guess. So, I got the car tuned with a Diablo tuner and now its getting 20 mpg, but still running rich. Pulled the Service Engine Soon light's codes. I believe P2196, 0132?, 0173?, 0152? All rough guesses because i don't remember, but they all were O2 sensor codes. So the car had 4 o2 sensors stock right? due to the headers and exhaust, there are only 2 now. So what should I do? The shop told me a wideband controller would be good and that AEM's is one of the easier to install, reliable ones to go with. Or should i have an exhaust shop drill and tap holes and install 2 more o2 sensors? I don't know what to do! In the mean time, fuel is still washing carbon down the cylinder walls, blackening and contaminating my oil. I bought oil change stuff, but whats the point of changing the oil if it just goes black again? I NEED to get the 02 sensor thing figured out!

 

[xXAzureMach1Xx]

Yes they had 4 O2's stock. If the car was tuned with just the front two O2's then whoever tuned it should have tuned the rear two off. No need to add them either. Putting a WB wont doin anything for codes! Just helps you to watch to make sure the car doesnt go lean. Was the car dyno tuned or just with a hand held tuner? If it wasnt put on the dyno then it really should be retuned from a good shop with a dyno. Was there a WB used when it was tuned? If not then its prolly still rich. With no cats then its goin to still smell of gas but may not be rich.

 

[xXAzureMach1Xx]

Also, depending on what codes it was the main two O2's could be bad. If either one goes bad then it will get really shitty MPG and run rich. You should be able to pull the codes with your hand held. Why do you still think its running rich?

 

[dudesqueak]

Why do you still think its running rich?

Because it still smokes and misses, but only sometimes, usually in colder weather like nighttime.

 

[xXAzureMach1Xx]

Read the codes if you can and go from there. Could try two new O2's but without more info its hard to say. Dyno tuned? A/F print out? W/B will tell you if its still rich also.

 

[dudesqueak]

The shop told me that I need new o2 sensors, but I don't know if they tested the sensors or the circuit. They also suggested that I get a wideband controller and said that AEM's is fairly simple to install. How can you tune it so that it only needs 2 sensors? The codes are: P2196 - Heated oxygen sensor (bank 1 sensor 1) biased/ stuck rich, P0132 - Heated oxygen sensor (bank 1 sensor 1) Circuit hight voltage, P0153 - O2 sensor circuit slow response (Bank 2 sensor 1), P0174 - SYSTEM ADAPTIVE FUEL TOO LEAN BANK 2. all caps for some reason?

 

[xXAzureMach1Xx]

It kinda sounds like you need new O2's. Its hard to answer your questions when you havent answered mine... So was the car DYNO TUNED? This car is nothing like a stock car and shouldnt be tuned on just a hand held tuner if thats what was used. Do you have the tuner that the shop used to tune the car? Did you get the SCT tuner that the car was tuned with the first time? Why did they say to get a WB? The hand held tuner, you can turn off the back two sensors. I think they must be turned off now or you would have more codes for bank 1 sensor 2 and bank 2 sensor 2. I think the code for slow to responed is kinda normal on cars with LT's but :shrug: IDK, Dont have LT'S. Replace the 2 O2's and take it to a shop that has a dyno and does alot of tuning, Not just some shop that handles normal cars.

 

[dudesqueak]

It kinda sounds like you need new O2's. Its hard to answer your questions when you havent answered mine... So was the car DYNO TUNED? This car is nothing like a stock car and shouldnt be tuned on just a hand held tuner if thats what was used. Do you have the tuner that the shop used to tune the car? Did you get the SCT tuner that the car was tuned with the first time? Why did they say to get a WB? The hand held tuner, you can turn off the back two sensors. I think they must be turned off now or you would have more codes for bank 1 sensor 2 and bank 2 sensor 2. I think the code for slow to responed is kinda normal on cars with LT's but :shrug: IDK, Dont have LT'S. Replace the 2 O2's and take it to a shop that has a dyno and does alot of tuning, Not just some shop that handles normal cars.

Dyno tuned - No, it is just a street tune - tuned for driveability, not horsepower, what is the need for a dyno tune? The car is plenty fast how it is with 602 crank hp. The shop that I took it to does have dyno, but they said that they do that for guys who are looking to get every single HP out of the car, not looking for gas mileage.

Yes, I have the Diablo tuner.

No, the dealership that I bought the car from did not give me the SCT tuner because the PO did not give them the tuner. The shop reflashed my car before installing the Diablo tune.

The shop reccommended that I get a WB so that I can monitor my air/fuel ratio so that I don't run too lean and burn a hole in a piston or two.

I think you're right about the back two sensors being turned off. I'm going to buy two Motorcraft 02 sensors and install them this weekend, then change my oil. Can my tuner also reset the Service Engine light?

 

[xXAzureMach1Xx]

Dyno tuned - No, it is just a street tune - tuned for driveability, not horsepower, what is the need for a dyno tune? The car is plenty fast how it is with 602 crank hp. The shop that I took it to does have dyno, but they said that they do that for guys who are looking to get every single HP out of the car, not looking for gas mileage.

Yes, I have the Diablo tuner.

No, the dealership that I bought the car from did not give me the SCT tuner because the PO did not give them the tuner. The shop reflashed my car before installing the Diablo tune.

The shop reccommended that I get a WB so that I can monitor my air/fuel ratio so that I don't run too lean and burn a hole in a piston or two.

I think you're right about the back two sensors being turned off. I'm going to buy two Motorcraft 02 sensors and install them this weekend, then change my oil. Can my tuner also reset the Service Engine light?

I guess im just not a fan of STREET tunes. Most of the time a WB isnt used so how can you safely tune a car? You really cant. How do you know its making 602 crank? You have a car dyno tuned to have a Safe and better tune all around done. Yes the tuner can get more HP out of a car on the Dyno but its also a safer tune. And with a car with a different motor thats built, Blower and full bolt ons, i think a dyno tune is a MUST. But thats me.

Yes i think a WB is the most important thing to have in a car. Did the tuner use a WB when he tuned it? If not how do you know it isnt lean now? This is why i like a dyno tune. They tune using the AF. Any car with a power adder should have a WB i think.

I know on my SCT i can check and reset the CEL. IDK about the Diable tuner, Im sure you can tho.

 

[KLeech]

Sounds to me like you need a new shop to do your work. Don't need a dyno tune and is making 600 to the crank and the car has no wideband but is "street" tuned. This is how people blow their cars up.

 

[xXAzureMach1Xx]

Sounds to me like you need a new shop to do your work. Don't need a dyno tune and is making 600 to the crank and the car has no wideband but is "street" tuned. This is how people blow their cars up.

What i have been tryin to get at this whole time.

 

[03MachAB]

I've always been under the impression anytime you're more than just basic bolt ons. get a dyno tune! otherwise it's just gonna bite you in the rear end down the road. Dyno tuning is THE safest way to keep your car running strong as long as possible. Putting 600 plus to the crank off a handheld just doesn't make sense to me..

 

[dudesqueak]

Ok, sounds like a dyno tune will be needed, then. No shops are anywhere near me though, that know Mustangs and have a dyno. So sounds like I'm gonna have to travel to go see Chris Tuten, so I need a new belt first:

I didn't end up putting the o2 sensors in it because the guy at O'reileys told me that if it's reading rich or lean, the o2 sensors are working. I thought about it some more, and there is oil in the intake, I followed the path down towards the intercooler, and the way the MAF is positioned, the oil would run right over it. Found some belt shreds under my hood, inspected it, and the belt is torn UP! I think it's because of the pulley supplied by Procharger not having a lip on the back of it to keep the belt from moving around, then tearing on the corner of my valve cover. Looking at the other Procharger pulley, I see an oily substance behind the Procharger. Do prochargers contain oil? I need to figure out if the oil is coming from the intake or the procharger. Also, anyone know how to change the belt on a car with a procharger on it??? Looks like I need to take the whole thing off to get to the belt! I just keep having more and more problems with this car! What do you guys think of selling the procharger kit and buying a KB kit?

 

[xXAzureMach1Xx]

Ok, sounds like a dyno tune will be needed, then. No shops are anywhere near me though, that know Mustangs and have a dyno. So sounds like I'm gonna have to travel to go see Chris Tuten, so I need a new belt first:

I didn't end up putting the o2 sensors in it because the guy at O'reileys told me that if it's reading rich or lean, the o2 sensors are working. I thought about it some more, and there is oil in the intake, I followed the path down towards the intercooler, and the way the MAF is positioned, the oil would run right over it. Found some belt shreds under my hood, inspected it, and the belt is torn UP! I think it's because of the pulley supplied by Procharger not having a lip on the back of it to keep the belt from moving around, then tearing on the corner of my valve cover. Looking at the other Procharger pulley, I see an oily substance behind the Procharger. Do prochargers contain oil? I need to figure out if the oil is coming from the intake or the procharger. Also, anyone know how to change the belt on a car with a procharger on it??? Looks like I need to take the whole thing off to get to the belt! I just keep having more and more problems with this car! What do you guys think of selling the procharger kit and buying a KB kit?

When you find a shop to tune the car, make sure you ask if they use SCT or Diablo. You could have to buy a SCT hand held. Why i asked if you had the SCT. Most shops only tune with SCT.

The car will go rich if a O2 fails, not lean. Do you see any oil feed lines and return lines goin to the blower? Im not sure but most blowers you can get either self contain oil or uses the oil from the motor. Is there a PCV system on the car? If so depending when the line goes into the intake it could be oil from the motor. You dont want to turn that MAF at ALL. It needs to stay at the position its at now but can be changed around when the car is tuned. Deend what pulley it is then it may not need a lip to keep the belt from moving around. You shouldnt have to remove anything to change the belt but idk, never had a procharged car. Is the car a 2V or 4V? You could have a problem finding a kit to fit it. Its not a stock style car anymore with the 5.4.

 

[dudesqueak]

started changing the belt. got the old one off, new one routed, then was about to put the supercharger on when...

I turned it over to pick it up and the oil started leaking from it. then I look at the pulley and turn it. Pulley has the edge shaved off. why, idk. and pulley does not spin freely, like it has bad bearings. So I need to get the supercharger rebuilt. In the meantime, it costs me $5/day to have the car parked where it is. Then, when I can put it all back together, I'm still right back where i was with the tuning issue. I had to buy the $389 diablo tuner so that the shop i took it to could tune my car. Now I might need to get an SCT. awesome. I talked the price of this car down $2500, lets see how close I can get to that with the repairs I need for it.