Nitrous Timing?

[WIZEASP]

Q for all you N2O users:

I have plans to run either the NX wet or NOS dry on my 96 Cobra, leaning towards the NX since I have 255 intank and don't really need or want to spend $ for the NOS inline pump. Probably will start with 75 shot, work up to 125 or 150.

How many of you running 100 shot or more are retarding timing? If so, how are you doing it? There are a few ways of doing it, I am thinking either with the built-in retard function in the MSD DIS-4 or via dyno-tune+custom chip. I am leaning towards the chip, since it would be safest to tune via wideband O2 + dyno, but that probably means tossing my Diablo chip (with NA tune) for a flipchip. And wouldn't have the ignition benefit from the DIS-4 to help prevent spark blowout.

If you had enough $ for only one or the other, what would you do? DIS-4 or dyno-tune + chip (no DIS-4)? Let's hear your opinions...

 

[Poisonous Mods]

Wow ud done some work to ur car :beer:

I rather have my car on the dyno to make sure its not lean at all before i push that trigger. U should go with a flip chip & have a program to retart the timnig.....from what i heard is for every 100shot u retart timing by 2 degress total. Any thing under is not needed.

 

[GR8WHITE]

Originally posted by Poisonous Mods
.....from what i heard is for every 100shot u retart timing by 2 degress total. Any thing under is not needed.

Very true, although you can run a little more or less timing sometimes depending on the gas, altitude and temperatures. You're very right to start with the -2, then listen for detonation and retard more if necesary.
If the timing is the only issue you are worrying about, I'd do the Steeda timing adjuster. It is much cheaper and much easier to install. The DIS-4 is neat becasuse you can subtract timing at RPM levels. So you don't have to puu timing out until after 3000 RPM for example. They can be a pain to install and I was very UNHAPPY with the DIS-4 on my 97. Kept having tach adapter problems.
The flip chip would be a better bet than the MSD. One program is tuned right for NA. The other is tuned right for the one size N2O shot. The only real draw back to the chip is, unless you get one with 3 or 4 different programs for different shots and different octane fuels. The one for motor will be accurate. The one for N2O will be accurate for that one size shot only. With the Steeda timing adjuster you can change the timing at the track for different fuels, conditions and shots in less than 5 minutes. Three allen bolts are all that have to be loosened to adjust and tightened once your set to the timing mark on the hub.

 

[WIZEASP]

Thanks for all the comments, guys...Turns out my Diablo tuner is going to give me a killer deal to upgrade to a Delta flipchip. So looks like I will go that route along with a dynotune to ensure my AF ratios are safe.

GR8WHITE, thanks for the feedback on the timing adjuster, thats a good point about being able to adjust at the track for different shots, weather, etc. Since I'm probably going to get tuned for a 100 shot, I figure I will stay at that jetting level once its dialed in. I don't want to get greedy and blow the stock bottom end. I would be very satisfied to hit around 400rwhp on the gas :-D

Next question: With a 100 shot, should I run one or two steps colder plugs? I would probably leave those plugs in to run all the time (car is a weekender), would two steps colder get fouled up running NA with a smaller gap (I've heard down to 0.035")?

Thanks,

 

[WIZEASP]

Originally posted by Poisonous Mods
Wow ud done some work to ur car :beer:

PM, thanks for the comments! I'm happy with all that I've done so far, and proud to say that I've done all the installs myself except for the gears (and dynotune of course). I had at one point a forged shortblock and Vortech, but sold it all before installing due to running out of $$...LOL So decided to hit the bottle instead I still have to beef up my rear and install chassis support/rollbar before I go hit the track again with my ET Drags...

 

[Poisonous Mods]

:beer: Pics on the Pics & Video Forum would be sweet ;-)

With ever 1 hundred HP increase i heard its good to go with colder plugs....or gap them smaller.

Might want to check what ur current set of plugs are gapped but the location of them are a PITA :cuss:

.035 should be good but id check & test it to see how it runs with that gap.

Strange thing is every car acts so different from one another.
03Cobra's...folks range them from .35 - .40 with various results.

:thumbsup:

 

[juicedgt02]

I was told to gap them at .35, I have an 02 GT with a 125shot. I have a set of plugs (awsf-a12c) sitting here not installed yet.

would two steps colder get fouled up running NA with a smaller gap (I've heard down to 0.035")?

Will these plugs mess up my N/A application?:shrug: I dont want to risk losing HP N/A just to gain some on juice. I only run juice on the track few times a year. :read: Help?

 

[Poisonous Mods]

Originally posted by juicedgt02
I was told to gap them at .35, I have an 02 GT with a 125shot. I have a set of plugs (awsf-a12c) sitting here not installed yet.

Will these plugs mess up my N/A application?:shrug: I dont want to risk losing HP N/A just to gain some on juice. I only run juice on the track few times a year. :read: Help?

Good Question...sorry im just ref. with my 03. Sorry :bash:

Guess it might not work out to gap them to .035 for the GT's. Also checking the plugs every time wont be so easy either IMO.

Well im sure that GR8WHITE will show you the way :thumbsup:

 

[juicedgt02]

Well im sure that GR8WHITE will show you the way

He has in the past and I am sure he will lurk into this murky waters sooner or later, as we are waiting for his arrival.:thumbsup: :beer:

 

[Poisonous Mods]

Originally posted by juicedgt02
He has in the past and I am sure he will lurk into this murky waters sooner or later, as we are waiting for his arrival.:thumbsup: :beer:

Althought he just might be hungry

Good Luck bro

 

[juicedgt02]

Thanks Poisonous, I will let you know once I get them in.

GR8WHITE reacts to "nitrous " threads the same way sharks react to "blood" he is on top of it.

This is how he fills him self up :thumbsup:

 

[GR8WHITE]

LMAO!! You guys crack me up.

If you go with the AWSF22C's they'll be cold enough. NGK TR-6's PT# 2238 same plugs. If you reduce the gap that might make you too rich since the colder plug will richen the mix up a little. Most of the time the reduction in the gap is to prevent spark blow out on forced induction cars. I'd keep the stock gap on the cold plugs and listen for any detonation. If you get any drop them down to around .036 like was previously mentioned. I'd only do that if I got the big D though.

 

[GR8WHITE]

Just saw the part about NA and the plugs.

Yeah it will richen you up a tad. It may not hurt you on motor though. Those should be good plugs to run on N2O. Just use the stock gap first and listen for detonation. Then gap down if necessary. That will keep you from being too rich. Also the non platinum plugs will need to be changed at least once a year. Perhaps more often depending on how much you spray the car.

 

[juicedgt02]

As always GR8WHTE you are alot of help:beer: soon i will be on my :burnout: to a low13smaybe even high high 12s:coolman:

 

[GR8WHITE]

12's are possible NA with only bolt-ons. ;-)

 

[juicedgt02]

GR8WHITE 12's are possible NA with only bolt-ons.

really....with the 2v motor and some bolt-ons :shrug: damn thats great, i already have 373s and i know 410s are much better for the track, so far i like them. Last night I went to the track and I was told that it wasnt preped, but I figured well since Iam here. I have some BFG road race tires on the back and running 125 shot I was spinning all the way to the finish line, have few clips to prove it to those that dont believe sometimes. Anyway my last run i didnt hit the juice until 4th gear, i took my brother for a ride to show him the power of juice,. 1st gear spin 2nd spin 3rd got a grip 4th hit juice spin spin spin got a 16sec run:shrug: :loser: :nono: what ya think

 

[Poisonous Mods]

Could just be in the prep of the track.

I remember when i was at a slipper track & all gears im sliding around.
That was not fun at all :nonono:

Went to that same track a few weeks later & finally some decent prep. Improved by only 2tenths but hey its an improvement


Oh also its the driver as well. Not saying u dont know how to drive but i know i can learn a few things from GR8WHITE :beer:

 

[juicedgt02]

i know i can learn a few things from GR8WHITE

without a doubt...........about 2 months ago at the same track but on stock tires I ran a 13.7 with a 2.0 60s and i think like .6xx r/t so thats not to bad, i know i can improve, and i say that the track was not preped at all, it seems like thay never do it on a "street night" WTF.

 

[Poisonous Mods]

I know....ur at the track to see what times u can net & the tracks are not up to standard :shrug:

I mean i cant even break my tires loss on 2nd gear or even up to 4th gear. That 1st time at that track My freaking concern was lossing total control & smacking the wall.

 

[GR8WHITE]

Originally posted by juicedgt02
without a doubt...........about 2 months ago at the same track but on stock tires I ran a 13.7 with a 2.0 60s and i think like .6xx r/t so thats not to bad, i know i can improve, and i say that the track was not preped at all, it seems like thay never do it on a "street night" WTF.

Now that is a good stock time. That's how you drive it. :thumbsup:

Just tweak the suspension to help traction. Loose what weight you can and relocate any you can to the rear. (Battery)

There are a bunch a 12 second bolt-on GT's. I wasn't the first. Infact I listened to one of the first and followed his setup pretty close. I did do a couple things different ;-)

Originally posted by GR8WHITE
Welds front & rear slicks out back.
3:73 gear
FRPP Aluminum D/S
Steeda pullies & Timing Adjuster @14degrees
Full Densecharger Cold Air Pickup
Bassani catted X
87MAF
FRPP 70mm TB
Steeda Double Adjustable Upper & Solid Lower rear control arms
UPR Chromoly Kmember/A arms
D&D front coil overs

Rear seat delete
Jack & spare removed
Any other weight removed (CD's, jackets, glovebox contents etc.)

I was farther down in the 12's than I thought I'd be.