New Whipple 2.9 on 2012 : mild surging @ low RPMs
- Thread starter fishpick
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- whipple 2.9
@Riddick so, "technically" the temp sensor relocation part of the kit came AFTER my original kit was built... so - it's not part of the tune they offer for my serial numbered blower. YES - I agree it's a bit petty... BUT - I also know just from the driving around yesterday the auto behavior was WAY crisper with VMP's canned 93 octane + no mods tune. So - I wasn't going to argue about drivability and a tune for the temp sensor relocation when, in reality, I know I'm gonna get a different one anyhow. PLUS - I really haven't even driven enough to know if it's tune, hardware, both or neither and just the car re-learning things.
Also - (I'm guessing here) the reality of a manufacturer provided tune is likely "take VIN, get AS-BUILD data, take tune template, input car variables, spend credit in SCT software, produce tune file for customer"... and NOTHING more complicated than that. When I requested my tune I did tell them - the VIN is 2014 PCM, the car is a 2012, cluster replacement, etc... so - it's entirely possible the 2014 "Select-A-Shift" behavior the PCM now gives me on the 2012 is not fully accounted for in their tune (it did feel a couple of times like it wasn't exactly sure which gear it should be in)...
So - let me put it this way... I'm getting a custom tune and I assumed that going into this project - either from a local dyno shop or renting a local dyno and using someone remotely. I'm suspicious of the PCM update unique to my cluster upgrade and the canned tune anyhow - plus - literally every single person on the planet says a well done custom tune for your car that accounts for all the idiosyncrasies that make up your car - is a better final solution across the board. So I didn't argue
Well the temp sensor is a huge disappointment for a kit developed so recently. I'm sorry you're having to deal with it.
I'm confused as to how that slipped through the cracks, how can you run a 600ish rwhp blower without the computer knowing the IAT. I had assumed all the positive displacement blowers were set up with the IAT post boost.
I'm glad you're getting it worked out. I am curious as to who they recommended for the tune. I'm going to take a shot in the dark that it is Lund, it seems they do a lot of whipples.
I'm confused as to how that slipped through the cracks, how can you run a 600ish rwhp blower without the computer knowing the IAT. I had assumed all the positive displacement blowers were set up with the IAT post boost.
I'm glad you're getting it worked out. I am curious as to who they recommended for the tune. I'm going to take a shot in the dark that it is Lund, it seems they do a lot of whipples.
DUDE - stop apologizing... You didn't pilfer shit before you shipped it to me - I know that for a fact!
And yes - this is why I am getting the sensor. As I finished things up I was like "hey - you know - there's no temp in this anywhere except the MAF by the cone filter - that's stupid" - it makes NO SENSE to me... NONE AT ALL... why I have to buy it - also makes no sense to me... what I DO like is the notion of replacing the now useless IAT with the post boost manifold temp so the gauge cluster in the car shows it... no need to add IAT2... but - I'm annoyed in general about the lack of the kit even addressing it.
I'm gonna BET my tune does something like "take IAT from the MAF, add 30, and use that for pulling timing"... super cool...
And - your shot seems like it could be accurate for one of their recommendations...
Or..did I?
Kidding!
And I agree on the gauge cluster. You actually inspired me to switch to a 13-14 cluster.
I got a email tune from ken, wide Open throttle was dead nuts but still has some surging. Like I said, it's a big TB sucking a ton of air. I'm sure it's difficult not seeing the car. Datalog the car if you get a email tune. Its a must
After more driving tonight I'd say there is a lot left to be desired in the "out of the box" tune for this kit as a stage 3 on an auto...
Shifting is moderately retarded. Like - from 2nd to 3rd in town you surge from 1200-1800 then flat out hesitate between 1800 and 2000 then grab - then it shift to 3rd.
That's not the TB... that's garbage.
I'm actually gonna email their tuners tomorrow... I seriously almost wonder if they gave me a Stage 1 stock TB tune... it's actually gotten that bad as the car learns itself...
How bad is it... my wife said "I think this needs a tuneup" after riding around tonight...
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Shifting is moderately retarded. Like - from 2nd to 3rd in town you surge from 1200-1800 then flat out hesitate between 1800 and 2000 then grab - then it shift to 3rd.
That's not the TB... that's garbage.
I'm actually gonna email their tuners tomorrow... I seriously almost wonder if they gave me a Stage 1 stock TB tune... it's actually gotten that bad as the car learns itself...
How bad is it... my wife said "I think this needs a tuneup" after riding around tonight...
Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
Somebody somewhere in some thread said they appreciated my honesty and the fact I put it all out there... well, I do that all the time, even when I MAY BE THE PERSON AT FAULT here...
I just sent an email to the Whipple tuner guy who sent me this tune... I was explaining the surge issue... said it REALLY seems like a TB issue... told him my wife's comment... and then re-read my initial tune request and his response...
I was crystal clear on the weird state of my 2012 and it's 2014 PCM, etc, etc... and I mentioned the 3" cat back exhaust... I kinda forgot to mention that the tune was for a Stage 3... and I'm not sure how he would have known that
So - either I'll get a "yeah - wrong tune dude, let me send you the right one" or "no, it's one size fits all"...
The betting tables are now open.
I just sent an email to the Whipple tuner guy who sent me this tune... I was explaining the surge issue... said it REALLY seems like a TB issue... told him my wife's comment... and then re-read my initial tune request and his response...
I was crystal clear on the weird state of my 2012 and it's 2014 PCM, etc, etc... and I mentioned the 3" cat back exhaust... I kinda forgot to mention that the tune was for a Stage 3... and I'm not sure how he would have known that
So - either I'll get a "yeah - wrong tune dude, let me send you the right one" or "no, it's one size fits all"...
The betting tables are now open.
That would explain a lot. I can't imagine the same tune for both sizes considering Alex's comments on the difficulty tuning the large mouth TB.
I like real people. Tell it like it is. Own it when it's on you.
Your Whipple experiences in both of these threads have curbed my enthusiasm about getting my kit (finally arrives tomorrow.) I've spent over $12,000 on the kit/install/supporting mods and I've waited over seven weeks for my Whipple to show up! Did not get one shipping update from them until I had my dealer call after the 4-6 week promised time. He was told it would be over 8 weeks until I received it. I told him to cancel my order. Long story short, they shipped my order that same day.
Now I have zero confidence that all of the parts will be there, like yours. And I'm anticipating a crappy running tune, like yours. I hope things turn out good in the end for both of us. I had high hopes for this system based on all of the positive experiences I've seen on 6 G forums.
Btw, I just spent an additional $2,000 on 1 7/8 LTH, ORX, & catback then I found out I can't use headers with the Whipple tune. I'll have to go custom tune to run the headers. I sent a email to William at Whipple asking why, and he never got back to me...although he was helpful at the beginning.
We shall see how it all plays out.
I like real people. Tell it like it is. Own it when it's on you.
Your Whipple experiences in both of these threads have curbed my enthusiasm about getting my kit (finally arrives tomorrow.) I've spent over $12,000 on the kit/install/supporting mods and I've waited over seven weeks for my Whipple to show up! Did not get one shipping update from them until I had my dealer call after the 4-6 week promised time. He was told it would be over 8 weeks until I received it. I told him to cancel my order. Long story short, they shipped my order that same day.
Now I have zero confidence that all of the parts will be there, like yours. And I'm anticipating a crappy running tune, like yours. I hope things turn out good in the end for both of us. I had high hopes for this system based on all of the positive experiences I've seen on 6 G forums.
Btw, I just spent an additional $2,000 on 1 7/8 LTH, ORX, & catback then I found out I can't use headers with the Whipple tune. I'll have to go custom tune to run the headers. I sent a email to William at Whipple asking why, and he never got back to me...although he was helpful at the beginning.
We shall see how it all plays out.
I'm sure it will work out fine - it really is a nice kit and aside from a few pieces and parts here and there the install (do the OPG's too!) really wasn't too bad.
I think they developed this for the 15+ Coyote... then backported the kit to the 11-14 market and that's where a few of the gaps in the instructions came from... I think an older 11/12 w/ and auto - is a bit "rare" for this install, and that's why I fought with the IC/HE and the auto transmission tubes so badly... take those 2 out of the equation (and the snapped off TB screws which is poor thinking on their part) - and I think you have a pretty flawless install... Really, the issues were mine to own.
As for the tune - I KNOW from past experience a big TB and also the intake air volume sizes REQUIRES a different tune... heck - you can't even install a CAI on a bolton w/o a tune... so it's kinda stupid to think I can install the blackhole of an elliptical on this blower and NOT need a different tune... and as I thought about it in bed all last night - that's gotta be what is going on... you touch the pedal at lower RPMs to go around a corner, the little TB would need to open 10*... so the PCM tells the massive TB "open 10*", TB opens 10* - engine gobbles air and surges, PCM says "whoa, close the TB a bit", back and forth...
GOTTA be my request for the tune missing some critical data... GOTTA be!
SO - BE EXCITED... it is a true twin screw... it makes cool sounds... it boosts the piss out of your car. NOTHING good ever comes easy - be very excited you are getting yours soon!
Appreciate the encouragement. I do have all of the MMR billet parts. And the really great thing I have on my side is a top notch installer.
Keep us updated how your tune goes. I'll let you know in a couple days what was left out of my kit if anything.
Keep us updated how your tune goes. I'll let you know in a couple days what was left out of my kit if anything.
I just want to reinforce, my experience with my Stage 3 Whipple for my '11 GT was night-and-day different.
Everything was perfect. Every part was in the box. The only problem I ever had was a squeaky idler pulley (which Whipple immediately sent me a new tensioner for) and I blew the fuel pump fuse my first time out. After swapping for a 20 amp fuse, I've had ZERO problems. Ever.
My car runs, drives, idles, and behaves like a stock car. There is a very, very slight surge for a few seconds until the O2 sensors heat up, but that goes away immediately.
Paul.
Everything was perfect. Every part was in the box. The only problem I ever had was a squeaky idler pulley (which Whipple immediately sent me a new tensioner for) and I blew the fuel pump fuse my first time out. After swapping for a 20 amp fuse, I've had ZERO problems. Ever.
My car runs, drives, idles, and behaves like a stock car. There is a very, very slight surge for a few seconds until the O2 sensors heat up, but that goes away immediately.
Paul.
What are you saying @Paul. ... that you were smart enough to request the correct tune from them... and the correct tune for the platform matters... I don't think I like the tone of your response, mister
(I expect to get the "correct tune" installed today and will report back, I'm sure, that the car is totally different in a very good way. And - I hope I haven't come across as unhappy... frustrated at times with a few minor (but critical path) parts missing and some less than ideal instructions at a few points (for my car - for whatever reason) - but over all - I'm very happy with where things are - I don't think you can do something like this to a car and NOT expect follow-up tweaks)
I get it man.
You know how forums get. Somebody has a less-than-ideal experience, and immediately everyone starts to swarm like bees and assume everything is like that. I just want folks to understand that your experience is not necessarily representative of a typical Whipple install.
Plus, my car is exactly like Whipple intended. Completely stock Mustang. Install blower. 591 rwhp. Drives perfect. Zero other mods.
I hope you get the bugs ironed out with your car soon. You'll love it.
Paul.
You know how forums get. Somebody has a less-than-ideal experience, and immediately everyone starts to swarm like bees and assume everything is like that. I just want folks to understand that your experience is not necessarily representative of a typical Whipple install.
Plus, my car is exactly like Whipple intended. Completely stock Mustang. Install blower. 591 rwhp. Drives perfect. Zero other mods.
I hope you get the bugs ironed out with your car soon. You'll love it.
Paul.
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