Need Help !!!!

[SteveWK]

Recent misfire problem. Took it to Ford and $440 later the diagnosis was, "Something weird is going on." Drove the car for 50 miles max and then heard a loud exhaust leak. Just had a buddy of mine start the car up while I watched. The entire plastic plate that conceals the coils vibrated badly, and it smells like gas. I think they forgot to tighten the spark plugs. It is an obvious leak.

Sorry mods, ****kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!

I am so pissed it is unreal.

Steve

 

[2011 gtcs]

They probably didn't tighten the plugs completely. A lose spark plug will sound just like an exhaust leak. Take off both coil covers and pull the coils out and check all 8 plugs. Do it fast so you dont mess up the threads on the cylinder head.

 

[raustin0017]

Ford mechanics? I have had work done on my 14 at a Ford dealership. The only guy who has touch Her is the only guy who works on all SVT vehicles at this dealership. Before I allowed him to do any work we met and discussed in detail his experience and what he was going to work on. That attention to detail is the only way I would have anyone touch my Baby.

Chances are the next guy in the que grabbed the work order and started working on your Baby. All those guys/gals turn out as many jobs as they can each day and don't give a crap about quality. They treat a 2000 F-150 with 300,000 miles on it the same as they would treat your GT500.

 

[SteveWK]

Thanks for info guys. I'm not driving the car and it was only driven about 150 yards when the noise started. I was literally tuning on to my street and straight into the garage it went.

I'm going to talk with Ford on Monday before I touch anything. The reason being if the threads in the head are messed up, I don't want them blaming me for it. It really bothers me that they can't tighten a spark plug properly. I've changed the plugs myself many times without incident.

Thanks for listening to me ramble on this problem. This car and I have had a cantankerous relationship over the past few years, but I am slowly getting the car setup how I want it.

Steve

 

[RDJ]

solid plan. if it turns out you do have to touch it for some reason, get someone to video the whole thing so you have video proof if something isn't right. be sure to narrate it as you go.

Thanks for info guys. I'm not driving the car and it was only driven about 150 yards when the noise started. I was literally tuning on to my street and straight into the garage it went.

I'm going to talk with Ford on Monday before I touch anything. The reason being if the threads in the head are messed up, I don't want them blaming me for it. It really bothers me that they can't tighten a spark plug properly. I've changed the plugs myself many times without incident.

Thanks for listening to me ramble on this problem. This car and I have had a cantankerous relationship over the past few years, but I am slowly getting the car setup how I want it.

Steve

 

[SteveWK]

Update on this fiasco. Got car towed back to Ford on flatbed. It was a spark plug that worked its way out. Picked the car up and drove it back to my place. Before I got home, the same problem began again. The car is getting towed back to Ford tomorrow. The only difference this time is I'm going to watch them work on it.

Personally, I think they FUBARED the threads on the head. They replaced the spark plugs trying to hunt down a random misfire problem I have been having. I have logged random misfires on all the cylinders during my diagnostic pursuits and haven't been able to figure out the problem. I thought Ford could with their more advanced diagnostic tools. Long story short, after they replaced the plugs they drove it extensively, but their diagnostic tools told them that cylinders 1 and 2 were down on power. Random misfire codes were still present on various cylinders; however, it did pass the IDS relative compression test. I then asked them to perform a leak down test. Everything looked good. I drove it home with the intention of figuring out the random misfire problem myself. I put maybe 30 miles on it and this whole problem started. They had to pull the spark plugs between the time they did their shake down test and the time they did the leak down test. I think this is when they messed it up.

What do you think?

 

[RBB]

Update on this fiasco. Got car towed back to Ford on flatbed. It was a spark plug that worked its way out. Picked the car up and drove it back to my place. Before I got home, the same problem began again. The car is getting towed back to Ford tomorrow. The only difference this time is I'm going to watch them work on it.

Personally, I think they FUBARED the threads on the head. They replaced the spark plugs trying to hunt down a random misfire problem I have been having. I have logged random misfires on all the cylinders during my diagnostic pursuits and haven't been able to figure out the problem. I thought Ford could with their more advanced diagnostic tools. Long story short, after they replaced the plugs they drove it extensively, but their diagnostic tools told them that cylinders 1 and 2 were down on power. Random misfire codes were still present on various cylinders; however, it did pass the IDS relative compression test. I then asked them to perform a leak down test. Everything looked good. I drove it home with the intention of figuring out the random misfire problem myself. I put maybe 30 miles on it and this whole problem started. They had to pull the spark plugs between the time they did their shake down test and the time they did the leak down test. I think this is when they messed it up.

What do you think?

Sounds like the threads are stripped since the same plug has worked it's way out multiple times now. I'd try chasing the threads first and see if that solves the problem. If not, you can always use a helicoil or time-sert to fix it. Personally, I'd go with the time-sert, I think it's a better product.

+ TIME-SERT® SPARK PLUG THREAD REPAIR KITS + spark plug stripped thread repair kits for spark plug problems, thread stripped spark plug repairs in damaged threads in spark plug hole stripped out approved thread repair, aluminum head spark plug repair

 

[SteveWK]

Thanks for the info RBB. I'll update later today.

 

[sleek98]

Sounds like the motors coming apart to put in new threads.

 

[SteveWK]

Just got back from the dealership, and this time it is cylinder 3 and not 1. They did a leak down test on bank 1 several weeks ago, and the mechanic is wondering if anti seize was used when they connected the air hose and that is the problem. The plan forward is to use a borescope to examine everything closely, clean the threads of any gunk, and replace the plugs. I really can't ask for much more at this point.

I will say this about the dealership, they have been very accommodating and did not take a defensive posture which I find encouraging.

 

[RBB]

Hope you get it worked out. It's amazing all the stories you hear about the service departments at dealerships screwing up such simple procedures.

 

[SteveWK]

Thanks. They are trying to make it right though. But you are right, they should have known better from the start.

 

[SteveWK]

Got the car back today. I was asked by the dealership to drive it around to make sure it was ok, and I did Actually I drove it relatively hard. No problems with plugs working their way you yet. They want me to drive it several hundred miles and bring it back so they can check it. I will do that this weekend.

So, now I am back to square one with the random misfire problem which is significant. I have another thread on that and will follow up there.

I will say this, the Ford dealship's mechanic rode with me today with the IDS connected and we got some solid data finally. Cylinders 1, 2, and 5 would drop randomly, plus some others I can't remember. But those were the major offenders.

Steve

 

[me32]

Is yours an early 13 build

 

[50stangpower]

What RPM IS THE random misfire? Is it under all types of driving?

 

[SteveWK]

Is yours an early 13 build

I bought the car 8/3/2012. I don't know the build date offhand.

What RPM IS THE random misfire? Is it under all types of driving?

It seems to happen mostly during a mild load at a steady speed; for example, 2,500 rpm in 4th driving down the road. It also has happen following WOT during the coast down.

This is how the symptoms progress.

1) Steady state driving the engine light will start to flash. Cylinders are not being dropped at this point according to the IDS.

2) After a period of time, seconds to minutes, cylinders will then begin to drop randomly.

3) After several minutes it will clear up on its own.

The only non-stock parts on the car are a 10% ATI balancer and Ford Performance twin 65 mm throttle body. These parts have been on the car for years. The stock tune is on the car. I do have a tune that works with the twin 65mm but the car still has misfires with that tune also. I had long tubes on the car, but several months ago put the stock exhaust back on including the cats. This is when the problems started.

I've asked Ford to check the EGR tube that attaches to the exhaust for leaks several times, but they haven't done it. That tube was disconnected and reconnected when the stock exhaust was put back on. The rear O2 sensors were installed after the stock exhaust was put back on. As I understand it the rear O2 sensors primary function is to monitor the health of the cats. The connectors for the rear O2 sensors were exposed to the elements for four years while the long tubes were on. The O2 sensors were in a box. If the rear O2s are malfunctioning that could cause the engine light to flash. The flashing engine light means the EEC thinks damage is being done to the cats. I'm theorizing that if the EEC thinks damage is being done to the cats, it may drop what it thinks are the offending cylinders. I do have tunes that turn off the rear O2s and cat protection. I can load one of those tunes, but I really need someone sitting next to me with the IDS to monitor all the cylinders for drops. Also, it makes me a bit nervous driving around with the no cat monitoring and the cats installed. Another possibility is the ATI harmonic balancer is not installed correctly affecting the crank position sensing. I think this is unlikely since it has been on the car for four years. Ford thinks it's the EEC. Again I think this is unlikely since this all started when the stock exhaust was put back on. I have mentioned this to Ford about a dozen times, but it seems to fall on deaf ears. They seem to rely on DTC codes almost exclusively. The diagnostic system is not perfect nor does it have logic for every possible failure. I think since the mechanic road with me in the car and was able to monitor everything while I drove, he is more likely to listen to me now.

 

[me32]

I bought the car 8/3/2012. I don't know the build date offhand.



It seems to happen mostly during a mild load at a steady speed; for example, 2,500 rpm in 4th driving down the road. It also has happen following WOT during the coast down.

This is how the symptoms progress.

1) Steady state driving the engine light will start to flash. Cylinders are not being dropped at this point according to the IDS.

2) After a period of time, seconds to minutes, cylinders will then begin to drop randomly.

3) After several minutes it will clear up on its own.

The only non-stock parts on the car are a 10% ATI balancer and Ford Performance twin 65 mm throttle body. These parts have been on the car for years. The stock tune is on the car. I do have a tune that works with the twin 65mm but the car still has misfires with that tune also. I had long tubes on the car, but several months ago put the stock exhaust back on including the cats. This is when the problems started.

I've asked Ford to check the EGR tube that attaches to the exhaust for leaks several times, but they haven't done it. That tube was disconnected and reconnected when the stock exhaust was put back on. The rear O2 sensors were installed after the stock exhaust was put back on. As I understand it the rear O2 sensors primary function is to monitor the health of the cats. The connectors for the rear O2 sensors were exposed to the elements for four years while the long tubes were on. The O2 sensors were in a box. If the rear O2s are malfunctioning that could cause the engine light to flash. The flashing engine light means the EEC thinks damage is being done to the cats. I'm theorizing that if the EEC thinks damage is being done to the cats, it may drop what it thinks are the offending cylinders. I do have tunes that turn off the rear O2s and cat protection. I can load one of those tunes, but I really need someone sitting next to me with the IDS to monitor all the cylinders for drops. Also, it makes me a bit nervous driving around with the no cat monitoring and the cats installed. Another possibility is the ATI harmonic balancer is not installed correctly affecting the crank position sensing. I think this is unlikely since it has been on the car for four years. Ford thinks it's the EEC. Again I think this is unlikely since this all started when the stock exhaust was put back on. I have mentioned this to Ford about a dozen times, but it seems to fall on deaf ears. They seem to rely on DTC codes almost exclusively. The diagnostic system is not perfect nor does it have logic for every possible failure. I think since the mechanic road with me in the car and was able to monitor everything while I drove, he is more likely to listen to me now.

I may have missed it. But how many miles on the car? Have you ever changed spark plugs? Had the dealer ever change spark plugs. The 2013 had an incorrect gap reference for new plugs.
12L09 - Owner’s Guide Supplement Update – Spark Plug Gap Correction - 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500

 

[biminiLX]

Good to hear some progress. I’d definitely be leaning on the mechanic that drove with you. If IDS sees several cylinders dropping then I’d assume it would’ve seen something from the rear cat protection.
Does the mechanic know all the history you posted?
Is there a warranty concern?
With dropping cylinders I’d replace the crank sensor before the ECU.
Good luck
-J

 

[SteveWK]

I may have missed it. But how many miles on the car? Have you ever changed spark plugs? Had the dealer ever change spark plugs. The 2013 had an incorrect gap reference for new plugs.
12L09 - Owner’s Guide Supplement Update – Spark Plug Gap Correction - 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500

Good point. I do remember that being mentioned here before. The car has 23k miles on it. The plugs have been changed 5 to 6 times by me and gapped at 0.028. They were one of the recommended NGKs. The part number escapes me at the moment. Never had a problem with them. I had a set of stock plugs and gave them to the dealer anticipating they would want to change them. I'm not sure where they gapped them but the car is misfiring and behaving the same as it did with the NGKs. I don't think the plugs are the problem.

Good to hear some progress. I’d definitely be leaning on the mechanic that drove with you. If IDS sees several cylinders dropping then I’d assume it would’ve seen something from the rear cat protection.
Does the mechanic know all the history you posted?
Is there a warranty concern?
With dropping cylinders I’d replace the crank sensor before the ECU.
Good luck
-J

Hopefully I can get him to ride with me tomorrow and I'll flash the EEC with a Lund tune that turns off the cat protection and rear O2 sensors. He can then monitor the cylinders with the IDS. If none of them drop, then that points to the rear O2 sensors. I know the EEC monitors the health of the O2 sensors and will throw a code if it detects a problem. But I doubt it is smart enough to detect a corrupted signal. This problem started when the stock exhaust was put back on and that meant reinstalling the rear O2 sensors. Then again I could be completely wrong, and it is the crank sensor like you said, or the balancer was never installed correctly, or the ECU is hosed, or .....

The mechanic does know the history, but I will remind him again tomorrow. He also thinks that since the ECU is considered part of the emissions system it has an 8 year/80,000 mile warranty.
Replacing it wouldn't cost me anything if that is the case.

My 4.10 install is waiting on getting this problem resolved. So, you can only imagine the stress it is adding to my life .

 

[Robot_trainer]

Mine was built around the same time. If I were to guess it could be a few possibilities. I've heard one case where the damper was not installed correctly or came loose, bolt loosened, etc which caused harmonics in the crank sensor. The rear monitoring sensors not only monitor the cat, but they can change change A/F by signaling the PCM that a condition is developing that could damage the cats. If they arent reading right it could send a false signal. It looks like the miss is on one bank. Try swapping the rear sensors side to side and see if it moves to the other bank. Could be a wiring problem. Hopefully its not a bad PCM.