Navy Question

[Rochard]

I'm Marine and have never been on float, and I'm having a week long online argument with some of my friends about military supplies while at sea.

Basically the discussion is about China, and how they would kick our arses in a war. I disagree because their navy is a blue water navy, meaning it stays close to home. This is because they don't have naval bases around the world for re-supply. (And they also don't have aircraft carriers, except for the one they bought from Russia for their "casino".)

So my friends are telling me that China doesn't need navy bases around the world for resupply because they do "at sea replenishment". I under this, but my point is they don't send an aircraft carrier group to the Persian gulf and have a supply train from the fleet all the way back to the US, but instead these replenishment ships go to and from the fleet to the nearest US Navy Base or friendly port to get supplies. It's not like the fleet leaves the US with everything it needs for a deployment, and if it needs anything else it sends a supply ship all the way to the US for it.

Can someone explain the logistics of supplying a carrier task group at sea during a deployment?

 

[FEARED]

Well you explained it alleady. While we are at sea (on a carrier) we get replenished by various supply ships. Sometime Fuel, or supplies by either helo or On reps. Those ships come from US/ Allied ports around the globe.

THe US has an incredible supply line and an amazing Logistic Advantage over any country. For example, and aircraft breaks and needs a flux capacitor, the ship its on doesnt have one. So they send an order out and will get it within a week. Even if that part was in Jax and the carrier was in the Gulf.

US > China

 

[Mach1USMC]

^^^ exactly. We def have the best logistics in the world. We have staging areas everywhere that we can fly supplies in and out of. China has allies here and there but not enough to support a supply chain needed for a prolonged attack against the continental U.S. They could def do some damage but not enough to avoid getting rolled like a booger after the first shots are fired!!

 

[Silver2003Cobra]

I'm Marine and have never been on float, and I'm having a week long online argument with some of my friends about military supplies while at sea.

Basically the discussion is about China, and how they would kick our arses in a war. I disagree because their navy is a blue water navy, meaning it stays close to home. This is because they don't have naval bases around the world for re-supply. (And they also don't have aircraft carriers, except for the one they bought from Russia for their "casino".)


well first, what the US Navy is, is a "Blue Water" Navy.. meaning we operate in the open ocean, China doesn't have that (yet but are developing one) they have a Litoral Navy, meaning that it operates close to land..

2nd, that carrier they bought from Russia is almost ready for receiving it's fighter wing, and they are building their own 100% chinese air craft carrier as we speak..

So my friends are telling me that China doesn't need navy bases around the world for resupply because they do "at sea replenishment". I under this, but my point is they don't send an aircraft carrier group to the Persian gulf and have a supply train from the fleet all the way back to the US, but instead these replenishment ships go to and from the fleet to the nearest US Navy Base or friendly port to get supplies. It's not like the fleet leaves the US with everything it needs for a deployment, and if it needs anything else it sends a supply ship all the way to the US for it.

Can someone explain the logistics of supplying a carrier task group at sea during a deployment?

also, the US Navy has perfected the "at sea replenishment" called an UNREP or UNderway REPlenishmen.. what that means is, your supply ships (that have the bombs, bullets, fuel food and replacement parts) sail to a secure port, and resupply with the needed parts for the carrier battlegroup and bring them back.. a civilian ship or numerous ships carries the parts from the US etc to that sercure port for the Navy..

there are more than a few ways to get the parts from the supply ship to the warship.. the most effective method is the CONREP (CONnected REPlenishmen) where the 2 ships sail side by side at 13 knots and transfer fuel via an 8" hose at up to 100 psi from the sending to the receiving ship, (for carriers or larger ships they can have up to 4 of these hoses sending fuel) and a highwire, which is about a 2" cable hooked between the 2 ships, and a sliding trolley is pulled back and forth between the 2 ships carrying up to 4 pallets at one time.. (takes about 20 seconds for the trolley to be pulled from one ship to the other) you can send over 40 or so pallets of goods (food, fuel, bombs bullets etc) this way in about an hour..

(figure that it takes a carrier about 4 hours to do a complete UNREP, and a small boy (destroyer or cruiser) about an hour)

now.. lets say you don't have a supply ship to replenish the fuel your escorts need.. (fuel is the major limiting factor for a battlegroup) sure the carrier is nuclear powered.. but it's escorts aren't (not any more).. so what do you do.. luckily the Navy has though of this problem and has a refueling rig on the carrier (or large deck amphib) to send fuel to the small boys so they can stay in the fight.. they don't like to do this, since it takes away fuel for their air wing, but it's better to be down a bit on that fuel than to have your escorts not able to keep up with the carrier..

"professionals think in terms of logstics, amateurs think in terms of firepower"

 

[Rochard]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. The supplies, even when at sea, most likely comes from "forward" US Navy bases or friendly ports.

But didn't Russia sail it's ships all the way past England and down into Cuba?

 

[Mach1USMC]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. The supplies, even when at sea, most likely comes from "forward" US Navy bases or friendly ports.

But didn't Russia sail it's ships all the way past England and down into Cuba?

They did but it's a SUSTAINABLE log chain that is needed if you are going to wage war long term. Cuba being an island we choked them off fairly easily and quickly vs the Russians. If the Chinese tried to use them as a supply point it would be shut down very quickly. If any of the "Banana Republics" in the gulf or Pac side tried to help we could crush them fairly easily. Plus the Chinese haven't been in a modern war.... They have numbers and that's about the only advantage they have. So did Saddam and he used the same methods and equipment the Chinese have. Bottom line, militarily we'd wipe the floor with them.

 

[SVT Tank]

Yup. Logistics s one of the biggest factors.
Example:
What other country can provide non-stop airlift to ANY region on the planet?
We are one of the few with in-flight refueling capabilities. And that's another reason why we rock.
Speaking of at sea replenishment, did you know that in the 60's and 70's, they actually landed a C-130 on a carrier. They would be able to carry more cargo further than anything in the air. They did this over 50 times. Go look it up on youtube some time.
It's impressive.

-ryan s.

 

[Mach1USMC]

Clancy actually wrote a book that discusses a lot of this, "The Bear and the Dragon." it's really good reading but it also highlights the weaknesses the Chinese military has.

In a War/battle that would last less than a month they would be pretty formidable. But beyond that they would struggle to keep up. Also in a sea campaign they campaign they are at a serious disadvantage vs our subs. Not only is our surface and sub fleet bigger than theirs. We are also better trained and equipped than they are- oh yeah. It would get real ugly for them.

This is probably why they have chosen to try to destroy us in the financial arena. Looks like it's working unfortunately.