MM K-Member Control Arm Angle

[SilverGT1]

I installed a MMKM-2 K-Member and installed the control arms in the highest mounting point. I thought that this would provide me with some extra room for lowering or at the very least have the control arms in a more positive orientation (positive meaning engine side higher than ball joint side). However, I am damn near flat with about +1.0*. I am running my car at the same ride height as before the new K, 26" measured ground to center wheel arch. While this is an improvement over my previous negative orientation, I expected more positive. Anyone here have any comparable measurements?

I haven't bump steered yet, but my initial set up just trying to get the tie rod level with the control arm has my bolt though adjustable tie rod ends maxed out. I know, I know, that's not how to really set it up. I am just doing that as a start point while I correct toe and final ride height for actual bump steer measurement.

 

[Blkkbgt]

Pictures?

My stance is as long as those arms are parallel or slightly positive you're good.

What is the stack up of the spacer on the strut that sandwiches the CC plate bearing? If you have very few on the under side you're effectively shortening the static strut length. This will raise the ball joint.

If you're dead set on getting the arms down more at the ball joint you can run a taller ball joint. MM won't tell you this but remember their A arms run a stock motor craft ball joint so any taller replacement will fit. Proforged and Steeda make them and I'd go proforged. The downside is your bump steer stack up would be taller than your bolts will allow with the control arm in the upper most holes.

Bump steer won't do a thing for your situation BTW and what you've done by setting the rod as close to the control arm angle as possible is exactly where you should start. Did you raise the rack all the way up?

 

[SilverGT1]

Blkkbgt, I completely for got about the strut spacers. I'll work on that. I cant remember how many are underneath. I don't need a whole lot more angle but once I get my suspension settled, I know it is going to drop. I am OK with a 0*, level orientation but was surprised that is where I ended up. I currently have all of the spacers in at the bolt thru adjustables (using the longer bolts). Yes, I have the rack raised to the highest setting using the MM solid adjustable rack mounts. I also have a spare set of steeda extended ball joints but, as you noted, it will not fix where I am at now. I think the key now is the spacers at the top of the strut.

Thanks again.

 

[SilverGT1]

After some more thought on this, with the coil overs, I don’t think adjusting the spacers at the top of the strut will do anything for me. I believe it would just have the same effect as adjusting the coil height. At this point, I think what I have now is what I have to work with.

 

[Blkkbgt]

After some more thought on this, with the coil overs, I don’t think adjusting the spacers at the top of the strut will do anything for me. I believe it would just have the same effect as adjusting the coil height. At this point, I think what I have now is what I have to work with.

Yes it will have the same effect but the physical distance between the mounting points will be increased. The big downside is you'll end up with more fender gap.

What I was getting at was making sure the stack up was correct per MMs instructions. I should have been more clear.

Years ago I had to play with the stack up to keep the strut rod from carving up my hood. This forced me to completely remove all the preload from the coilovers to reduce the fender gap.

 

[SilverGT1]

Yes. I am absolutely certain my stack up correct. I used just enough to provide the necessary clearance. I also modified my hood for my Koni’s.

 

[Blkkbgt]

@SilverGT1

I went back and reviewed some instructions for both the k member and coilovers. One of them (can't remember which) has a different spacer stack up depending on how much lower the car sits.

I know you stated that you had yours set up the right way but is it the right way for how low your car sits?

I'd really like to get this figured out and possibly changed as I was under the same impression as you regarding the A arm angle in the upper holes.

 

[SilverGT1]

You are probably thinking of the caster camber plate instructions. They go into detail for stock suspension stack up but for coil overs they state “
For MM Coil Over applications, consult your Coil-Over Instructions for correct spacer arrangement”.

In the coil over instructions, the only purpose of the spacers is to ensure clearance from the strut to the body / frame.

 

[SilverGT1]

If you want to see my set up, I have posted a new video to my YouTube channel.

 

[Blkkbgt]

@SilverGT1 here is some information I found very interesting regarding the difference a arm bolt locations.

MM K-Member upper or lower control arm holes

 

[SilverGT1]

Very interesting.

 

[Makobra]

do you have the aluminum offset steering rack bushings MMR recommends for this setup? that will give you 3 heights for your rack which means you'd get a little more flexibility with making those tie rods parallel with the control arms. i have the same stuff as in the video and it works for me (but to be fair i haven't had a real alignment yet)

also, how low is your car? (pic would be handy) cause 26" from fender to ground seems very low. these cars don't seem to like being slammed and frankly it looks kinda bad.

 

[SilverGT1]

do you have the aluminum offset steering rack bushings MMR recommends for this setup? that will give you 3 heights for your rack which means you'd get a little more flexibility with making those tie rods parallel with the control arms. i have the same stuff as in the video and it works for me (but to be fair i haven't had a real alignment yet)

also, how low is your car? (pic would be handy) cause 26" from fender to ground seems very low. these cars don't seem to like being slammed and frankly it looks kinda bad.

That video is me and that is my car.

Morning light is throwing a shadow making it look lower in the front. Also, after getting down off the lift it is sitting at about 25.5”.

 

[Makobra]

do you rub at all? looks like a lot of negative camber. i have camber bolts in addition to my coilovers to get closer to zeroing out the camber so i can dial in whatever negative amount i want. this is about as low as i wanna go but it being a SN95 does mean the aesthetics and wheel clearance are different than the new edge variants.

I have modified my fenders to give an additona 1" of clearance on each side, though, so any SN95 guys should take note of that before getting any ideas

 

[SilverGT1]

Yes. Lots of camber on mine. Not exactly sure why but with swapping everything it has been exacerbated. I usually run it about 1.5. I still have not taken it out to settle the suspension after all the work. I will readjust my height back to 26” to start. I think the rear was at 26.5 or 27. Just a tiny bit of rake. At those heights I have had no rubbing at all.

 

[Blkkbgt]

Yes. Lots of camber on mine. Not exactly sure why but with swapping everything it has been exacerbated. I usually run it about 1.5. I still have not taken it out to settle the suspension after all the work. I will readjust my height back to 26” to start. I think the rear was at 26.5 or 27. Just a tiny bit of rake. At those heights I have had no rubbing at all.

Did you adjust your spindles at the strut to the full negative position?

Also looks like you may have some wheel poke on the front.

Do you have a straight down the fender shot by chance?

 

[SilverGT1]

Did you adjust your spindles at the strut to the full negative position?

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Not sure I understand your question. I am not running adjustable bolts on the strut. Just using the stock location. I am not aware of any other adjustment.

Also looks like you may have some wheel poke on the front?

Yes. Looks poked out because I am running 0.5” spacers. I need them to clear my brake duct hose.

I just took it out for a good run. I am seeing the front left low, right rear high.

This must be because the difference between stock k and MM.

I’ll dial it back in.

I forgot how solid this suspension is!

 

[Blkkbgt]

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Not sure I understand your question. I am not running adjustable bolts on the strut. Just using the stock location. I am not aware of any other adjustment.

All struts for these cars have the lower spindle attachment bolt hole elongated to provide additional camber adjustment. This allows the spindle to be pivoted on the upper bolt.

If you run them with the spindle full negative you'll have more static camber and more max camber.

You can also go full positive as well but you limit your full negative max.

Pretty sure MM details this in at least one set of instructions but I can't remember which.

If you set yours to full negative that would explain your current setting vs where it may have been before.

You'd be surprised at how many people ignore this adjustment and then complain that they have to max out their CC plates to get any negative camber. The most common is having a massive discrepancy side to side on the plates.

 

[SilverGT1]

Odd. I am using standard bolts. No additional adjustment. I had those camber assist bolts before getting CC plates. Now, with my Koni’s and stock spindles, I am just using straight bolts. I have never noticed my spindle holes to be elongated.

I’ll get it all dialed in again.

just took another long rip. Suspension stating to settle. Now front is 25.5 both sides and both rear are 26.5. I’ll get the front back up to 26. That is where it used to be. I’m gonna flip my cc plates too. Get back to something closer to 1.0-1.2.

So I am noticing something funny with these long bolt thru tie rod ends. It feels like when you are cornering your can feel a point of resistance and then it pushes over. Hard to explain.

 

[Blkkbgt]

Odd. I am using standard bolts. No additional adjustment. I had those camber assist bolts before getting CC plates. Now, with my Koni’s and stock spindles, I am just using straight bolts. I have never noticed my spindle holes to be elongated.

I’ll get it all dialed in again.

just took another long rip. Suspension stating to settle. Now front is 25.5 both sides and both rear are 26.5. I’ll get the front back up to 26. That is where it used to be. I’m gonna flip my cc plates too. Get back to something closer to 1.0-1.2.

So I am noticing something funny with these long bolt thru tie rod ends. It feels like when you are cornering your can feel a point of resistance and then it pushes over. Hard to explain.

Sorry I had it backwards, it's the LOWER spindle mount hole on the strut. I edited my post to reflect that but wanted to make sure you knew I had it backwards.

You don't need camber bolts to make the adjustment. They are a scam IMOP because all they do is make the adjustment easier. They don't make the adjustment possible as they often imply.

When I had hood clearance issues with the exposed strut above the CC plates I set my spindles level vertically on the hub with the a arm raised to ride height using this same adjustment.

That's kind of odd what you're explaining with your steering. I know that steering effort is affected by caster and maybe that is your problem?

I am not sure if it's negative or positive caster that increases steering effort though, I can't remember.

I also know that once once dial in enough positive caster then you need to check bump steer again as you're effectively raising the tie rod mount in relation to the a arm.