Military Pilots come in...questions

[Starfox07]

So I'm wanting to join some branch of the armed forces after college to, hopefully, become a pilot. I'm really in the dark about it, and I would rather not talk to a recruiter about it because they will obviously have their own agenda. I'm 2 years away from my bachelors in architecture, and 4 away from my masters. While I would prefer flying something like a A10, this isn't really important, I just want wings

I know architecture isn't particularly suited for flying, so what steps do I need to do to 'get ready,' so to speak, for becoming a pilot?

Do they shy away from non-engineering related majors?

Would it make more sense to go in with a bachelors or a masters?

I would feel pretty bad if I joined up just to end up doing some non-flying job for 4 years, especially if I have a degree in something with which I could be doing. Is there a way to sort of 'make sure' you become a pilot at some point?

How does eyesight factor in to the situation? My eyes are pretty good, but my left eye is a little weak. I can pass the drivers license vision test unassisted.

Basically I'm just looking for some general information about the process of becoming a pilot in the military, with the end goal of being a commercial or private pilot afterward.

 

[pho_phizzat]

try posting this in the military section...

 

[Starfox07]

What military section?

 

[lobra97]

i know you can't be color blind as far as vision for sure....
as far as engineering majors i don't think you can, at least in the Navy i don't think you can fly unless its engineering type but you could always be an engineering or CB officer.
good luck on your search, if you do get to do it stick with it, flying is badass and thats what i want my son to do.

 

[pho_phizzat]

What military section?

The Chow Hall - SVTPerformance

this one, look underneith the newbie section at the top of roadside

 

[bnd3672]

So I'm wanting to join some branch of the armed forces after college to, hopefully, become a pilot. I'm really in the dark about it, and I would rather not talk to a recruiter about it because they will obviously have their own agenda. I'm 2 years away from my bachelors in architecture, and 4 away from my masters. While I would prefer flying something like a A10, this isn't really important, I just want wings

I know architecture isn't particularly suited for flying, so what steps do I need to do to 'get ready,' so to speak, for becoming a pilot?

Basically I'm just looking for some general information about the process of becoming a pilot in the military, with the end goal of being a commercial or private pilot afterward.

I am not a current military pilot, but I am currently going through the application process so I can provide some insight. FYI, my answers will be geared toward Air Force since that is the branch I am applying with, and thus have the most information about. I can't confirm any of my statements with other branches, but some things do cross over.

First and foremost, I recommend ROTC. You still have two years left, and that is enough time to participate in the ROTC program. I always thought I wanted to serve in the military, but it took me until my senior year to commit to it. For this reason I have to obtain my commission through OTS, which involves a much more difficult selection process for pilots.

Does your school have an ROTC program? If so, go talk to them. If they do not, it is very likely that a university around you does have a program, and will allow you to dual enroll. I can't emphasize enough that you should use ROTC as your commissioning source.

How does eyesight factor in to the situation? My eyes are pretty good, but my left eye is a little weak. I can pass the drivers license vision test unassisted.

Currently the Air Force vision requirements are 20/70 correctable to 20/20. There are also requirements for depth perception, color vision, etc. Your eyes will be checked at MEPS (military entrance processing station), where you will also receive a comprehensive physical. I can say with certainty that different branches have different eyesight requirements. If this is a concern, I would recommend seeing an eye doctor now, before you invest too much time into the process. Also keep in mind that medical waivers are being accepted for I believe both PRK and Lasik surgeries.

I would feel pretty bad if I joined up just to end up doing some non-flying job for 4 years, especially if I have a degree in something with which I could be doing. Is there a way to sort of 'make sure' you become a pilot at some point?

I want to take a moment to emphasize that the Air Force, and all branches as far as I know, have a culture of "officer first, pilot second" and perhaps more importantly, "the needs of the Air Force [or whatever other branch]".

This means that you will have non flying responsibilities. You spend more time out of the cockpit than in it. The military is moving rapidly toward UAV's, and your airframe wont be guaranteed until after you are committed to serving (airframe assignments are based on class rank and needs of the military). This means you may be flying a remote control airplane for 10 years with nothing you can do about it. Also, if for any reason you wash out of flight training you can be reassigned to any career field the military sees fit, with again, nothing you can do about it. This means that you may end up committed to being a maintenance officer, public relations officer, finance officer, infantry officer, or any other type of officer.

I believe in the marines, they hold the term "every marine a rifleman", or something like it. Marines, correct me if I'm wrong, but this means that officers, and even pilot's are expected to be capable of leading a rifle team, and may have to do so at some points in their career. This means being shot at. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that both Army and Marines can expect to pull duty outside the wire quite often. From what I hear, the Air Force and Navy don't go outside the wire as often, but again, the term "needs of the [insert branch here]" come to mind. If they need you to do it, you do it. Anyway, I'm ranting. The point is this: These are things that you have to be willing to do.

Take some time to consider if these are things you would be satisfied with. When you commit to the military, you commit to more than flying an airplane. One of the Air Force core values is "Service before self". I imagine other branches have similar values. The point is this: If you just want to fly, the civilian route may be a better option.

With all of that being said, I believe the Army Warrant Officers do spend most of their time flying. I don't know a lot about this, but if it sounds good to you, you can gear your research in this direction.

I certainly don't say these things to influence you in one way or another, but rather just to fully inform you so that you can make the right decision based on your individual values and situation. I also want to be clear that I am not questioning your motives, however, when you say you would feel bad doing a non flying job, I want to point out that these things need to be considered so that you can make a fully informed decision.

Do they shy away from non-engineering related majors?

I can only answer this question with respect to Air Force OTS. And even still, the answer isn't solid. But the fact is, you can apply to a rated (read, flying position) board with any bachelor degree. Many people are selected with a plethora of degrees, from engineering to liberal arts. OTS selections are based on "a whole person concept" that considers many aspects of you as an individual. The reason the answer isn't solid is because nobody really knows to what extent your major effects selection.

Any other specific questions? I will do what I can to be of help. Also, I can point you in the direction of internet resources like Baseops.Net Flight Planning and Aviation Weather and www.airwarriors.com, where the sites are dedicated to topics like these.

 

[Starfox07]

I am not a current military pilot, but I am currently going through the application process so I can provide some insight. FYI, my answers will be geared toward Air Force since that is the branch I am applying with, and thus have the most information about. I can't confirm any of my statements with other branches, but some things do cross over.

First and foremost, I recommend ROTC. You still have two years left, and that is enough time to participate in the ROTC program. I always thought I wanted to serve in the military, but it took me until my senior year to commit to it. For this reason I have to obtain my commission through OTS, which involves a much more difficult selection process for pilots.

Does your school have an ROTC program? If so, go talk to them. If they do not, it is very likely that a university around you does have a program, and will allow you to dual enroll. I can't emphasize enough that you should use ROTC as your commissioning source.


Currently the Air Force vision requirements are 20/70 correctable to 20/20. There are also requirements for depth perception, color vision, etc. Your eyes will be checked at MEPS (military entrance processing station), where you will also receive a comprehensive physical. I can say with certainty that different branches have different eyesight requirements. If this is a concern, I would recommend seeing an eye doctor now, before you invest too much time into the process. Also keep in mind that medical waivers are being accepted for I believe both PRK and Lasik surgeries.


I want to take a moment to emphasize that the Air Force, and all branches as far as I know, have a culture of "officer first, pilot second" and perhaps more importantly, "the needs of the Air Force [or whatever other branch]".

This means that you will have non flying responsibilities. You spend more time out of the cockpit than in it. The military is moving rapidly toward UAV's, and your airframe wont be guaranteed until after you are committed to serving (airframe assignments are based on class rank and needs of the military). This means you may be flying a remote control airplane for 10 years with nothing you can do about it. Also, if for any reason you wash out of flight training you can be reassigned to any career field the military sees fit, with again, nothing you can do about it. This means that you may end up committed to being a maintenance officer, public relations officer, finance officer, infantry officer, or any other type of officer.

I believe in the marines, they hold the term "every marine a rifleman", or something like it. Marines, correct me if I'm wrong, but this means that officers, and even pilot's are expected to be capable of leading a rifle team, and may have to do so at some points in their career. This means being shot at. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that both Army and Marines can expect to pull duty outside the wire quite often. From what I hear, the Air Force and Navy don't go outside the wire as often, but again, the term "needs of the [insert branch here]" come to mind. If they need you to do it, you do it. Anyway, I'm ranting. The point is this: These are things that you have to be willing to do.

Take some time to consider if these are things you would be satisfied with. When you commit to the military, you commit to more than flying an airplane. One of the Air Force core values is "Service before self". I imagine other branches have similar values. The point is this: If you just want to fly, the civilian route may be a better option.

With all of that being said, I believe the Army Warrant Officers do spend most of their time flying. I don't know a lot about this, but if it sounds good to you, you can gear your research in this direction.

I certainly don't say these things to influence you in one way or another, but rather just to fully inform you so that you can make the right decision based on your individual values and situation. I also want to be clear that I am not questioning your motives, however, when you say you would feel bad doing a non flying job, I want to point out that these things need to be considered so that you can make a fully informed decision.


I can only answer this question with respect to Air Force OTS. And even still, the answer isn't solid. But the fact is, you can apply to a rated (read, flying position) board with any bachelor degree. Many people are selected with a plethora of degrees, from engineering to liberal arts. OTS selections are based on "a whole person concept" that considers many aspects of you as an individual.

Any other specific questions? I will do what I can to be of help. Also, I can point you in the direction of internet resources like Baseops.Net Flight Planning and Aviation Weather and www.airwarriors.com, where the sites are dedicated to topics like these.

Wow thanks, just the kind of information I was looking for! :beer:

I don't really think the civilian route is the best way to go because the experience there won't be nearly as good as military.

My school does have an ROTC program (in fact I live in the same dorm as them :lol so I may go talk to them. I'm just reluctant to make commitments (of any kind) so ROTC would be really pushing my boundaries. I will definitely check it out though. Again thanks for the info. :beer:

 

[bnd3672]

Wow thanks, just the kind of information I was looking for! :beer:

I don't really think the civilian route is the best way to go because the experience there won't be nearly as good as military.

My school does have an ROTC program (in fact I live in the same dorm as them :lol so I may go talk to them. I'm just reluctant to make commitments (of any kind) so ROTC would be really pushing my boundaries. I will definitely check it out though. Again thanks for the info. :beer:

I believe you can start ROTC without a commitment. The commitment occurs when they put you on an ROTC scholarship. This doesn't happen right away, so you could check it out before commiting. Again, I'm an OTS guy, so I don't know all of the details about ROTC. But that could be a question for them when you talk to them. Good luck to you in whatever you choose! :beer:

 

[CDep55]

If your goal is to become a civilian pilot then i would look into the Air National Guard as well. Texas ANG has a fighter wing with F-16s I believe. As well as an airlift wing with C-130s.

Something good about joining the ANG is that if they hire you to be a pilot with the fighter wing, as long as you pass all the training you will be a fighter pilot. If you join the active duty Air Force you don't have much control over what you end up flying. From what I understand only the top people in the class usually get fighter slots, and then your ANG people.

I am not exactly sure what happens if you don't pass pilot training. Probably same thing, but at least if your in the guard you only have a part-time commitment so you can continue to move on with your civilian career.

I am enlisted in the Air National Guard, as a C-130 Loadmaster. I enjoy the flying and the mission. I am not in the Texas wing though. I am sure there is a huge difference in C-130 lifestyle and fighter pilots, and I can only speak for C-130. But look into what would would fit best with a civilian career.

 

[Matts00GT]

I believe you can start ROTC without a commitment. The commitment occurs when they put you on an ROTC scholarship. This doesn't happen right away, so you could check it out before commiting. Again, I'm an OTS guy, so I don't know all of the details about ROTC. But that could be a question for them when you talk to them. Good luck to you in whatever you choose! :beer:

This is correct.

You dont have to contract immediately. You simply wont get scholarship money.

If you want to fly, you need to be in the top of your class no matter what branch you choose.

You seem like you want to fly fixed wing, so go ahead and rule out the Army.

 

[Starfox07]

This is correct.

You dont have to contract immediately. You simply wont get scholarship money.

If you want to fly, you need to be in the top of your class no matter what branch you choose.

You seem like you want to fly fixed wing, so go ahead and rule out the Army.

It's pretty much what I do.

I wouldn't mind Helo's, but planes go faster

I think I'm going to look into the air national guard.

 

[bunk22]

I'm a Navy pilot flying a desk for the next few months until my orders are up. The best source for the information you seek is Baseops.Net Flight Planning and Aviation Weather for the Air Force and www.airwarriors.com for the Navy. However, I warn you to search first before you ask as the questions you have asked have been asked and answered many times before. There isn't much patience for that on those websites.

As far as the Navy goes, with respect to your major, any major applies for a commission and aviation. Eyesight requirements are 20/40 correctable to 20/20 with normal color vision (have to pass the FALANT color vision test). You can go either OCS, NROTC or the Naval Academy. I went through the NROTC program many years ago.

If selected for pilot, you start off with IFS...a civilian operated flight program where you get around 20-30 hours of flight time. From there, you will go to Aviation Preflight Indoctrination (API). It's 6 weeks of classroom work, water survival, some land survival and physical training. After that, it's off to primary flight training at either NAS Whiting in Florida or NAS Corpus Christi in Texas.

The number one thing that determines what you get out of advanced flight training is needs of the service. Number two will be your flight grades. About 45% of all Navy pilots and 75% of all Marine pilots are helo pilots. So you can select helo's, P-3's, E-6A's (707's out of Oklahoma) or Tailhook. You have to get the better grades to go Tailhook and within Tailhook, there is another selection, jets or E2/C2. Advanced flight training for tailhook is Kingsville, TX or Meridian, MS. Advanced flight training for multi-engine is Corpust Christi, TX and advanced helo flight training is in Milton, FL.

BTW, I flew C-2A's off the carrier for 8+ years (two fleet tours and an instructor tour). I flew the T-34C/T-44A/T-2C Buckeye in training. I was a primary IP with VT-6 and in August, I'm going to be an advanced jet instructor in Kingsville, flyiing the T-45C Goshawk.

 

[TaraFirma]

If you choose Army, I can tell you you will not fly much as a RLO (real live officer, ie. LT,CPT and so on), and that you should go the Warrant Officer route if flying is what you want. The Army does have a program that gaurantees you a flight spot once your training and school is complete, but the airframe choise is dependant on your grades and position in your class. The program is called "High school to flight school", and would apply to you even though you have a degree. The army does not require one though. I was enlsited before I became a warrant officer, so I can't really tell you too much about the program past the fact that it exists. A recruiter would have more info. Since becoming a flight warrant officer I have logged over 2000 flight hours with just over 1100 of them being combat flight hours.

 

[oilwell1415]

Just a couple of tidbits to add since I was in your shoes a year or two ago.

First, the ANG will probably not hire you to be a pilot. They will want you to join the unit and see what you're like first. If you do well and pass all the tests they will then allow you to enter pilot training, which you must start before you turn 30.

Second, you should make sure what the current rules are regarding surgical vision correction before getting it if you are thinking about doing that. When I was looking at ANG they would pay for the surgery if you were already a pilot, but if you got it on your own before becoming a pilot it was disqualifiying.

Third, being a pilot (in the Air Force) requires that you do well on the AFOQT (Air Force Officer Qualification Test). The other branches probably have similar exams. It will have some aviation questions on it, as well as some questions about reading tables and charts. Taking a private pilot ground school and spending a few hours in the airplane will help you with those portions of the test. If you are selected for pilot training it will also help you a lot during UPT by giving you a head start in how to handle the airplane.

Last, if you want to fly and are not interested in anything else it may be a good idea to look somewhere other than the Air Force. Pretty much every officer in the AF wants to be a pilot, so there is more competition. On the flip side of that, they have more pilot slots than the other branches. However, the other branches seem to be less competitive for pilot slots. Also, if you decide to make a career of the military, you won't be able to go as far in the AF if you are not a pilot. If the pilot thing doesn't work out, the other branches will have more opportunities for advancement within and beyond the field grades.

 

[bunk22]

If you are selected for pilot training it will also help you a lot during UPT by giving you a head start in how to handle the airplane.

Were you a student aviator? This is not an entirely true statement. A little time in an aircraft does not necessarily mean a person will have a head start. I was primary IP at Whiting and to really have an advantage, a student needed quite a bit of flight time and flying a T-6A/B or T-34C is a bit different than your standard C-172.

Last, if you want to fly and are not interested in anything else it may be a good idea to look somewhere other than the Air Force. Pretty much every officer in the AF wants to be a pilot, so there is more competition. On the flip side of that, they have more pilot slots than the other branches. However, the other branches seem to be less competitive for pilot slots. Also, if you decide to make a career of the military, you won't be able to go as far in the AF if you are not a pilot. If the pilot thing doesn't work out, the other branches will have more opportunities for advancement within and beyond the field grades.

Where exactly to you get your statistics? They do have more pilots than other branches but more competitive? If other services have less, they would be more competitive for slots it would seem. How do you know every officer in the AF wants to be a pilot? The AF has plenty of opportunities for advancement for non pilot types. Matter of fact, the majority of their officers are non-aviators. Here is a snap shot from 01:

Number of Air Force Officers Assigned, by Career Field

For the OP, go to Baseops.Net Flight Planning and Aviation Weather or www.airwarriors.com for information from actual AF and Naval aviators. Problem with asking on a car website is you get bad gouge like that above. Listen only to those who have been there done that.

 

[oilwell1415]

Stupid database error...

I'm not going to retype my whole reply, but you have your opinion and I have mine. When I was considering the AF as a career I talked to more people than I can remember about options and what I posted came directly from them. It has been reinforced by 4 of my friends at service academies who are currently in the process of selecting/being selected for their career. The Army/Navy/Marines have a ton of people that want to be pilots, but a large percentage of them change their mind when they see what other things are available to them. That is not reported from the AFA. The ones that go there wanting to be a pilot rarely change their mind, they just have to settle for something else.

Do you have a chart that shows what percentage of general officers are non-pilots? I would love to see it. I can't remember ever seeing a general without wings in the AF.

As I said, you have your opinion. What I posted were the results of my research in the matter when this was a possibility for me.

 

[bunk22]

I'm not going to retype my whole reply, but you have your opinion and I have mine. When I was considering the AF as a career I talked to more people than I can remember about options and what I posted came directly from them. It has been reinforced by 4 of my friends at service academies who are currently in the process of selecting/being selected for their career. The Army/Navy/Marines have a ton of people that want to be pilots, but a large percentage of them change their mind when they see what other things are available to them. That is not reported from the AFA. The ones that go there wanting to be a pilot rarely change their mind, they just have to settle for something else.

Do you have a chart that shows what percentage of general officers are non-pilots? I would love to see it. I can't remember ever seeing a general without wings in the AF.

As I said, you have your opinion. What I posted were the results of my research in the matter when this was a possibility for me.

So you've got friends who told you information? Nice. I'm a Navy pilot and last tour, was a primary instructor pilot. My advice about flight time is based on first hand experience. I'm 17 years active duty as well, 500+ carrier landings, etc. As for the rest of it, the best advice comes from those who have been there done that as well and thus Baseops.Net Flight Planning and Aviation Weather is a great resource. That site has actual AF pilots, not friends of friends. Your opinion is based on second hand, passed down info. That's why the title of his thread is military pilots come in, not wannabe's. Bad gouge is bad gouge.

The percentage is smaller than the pilots no doubt but making general is what defines success in the military? Then very, very few people are successful. Here is an older study for your review.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/saas/danskine.pdf

 

[oilwell1415]

So you've got friends who told you information? Nice. I'm a Navy pilot and last tour, was a primary instructor pilot. My advice about flight time is based on first hand experience. I'm 17 years active duty as well, 500+ carrier landings, etc. As for the rest of it, the best advice comes from those who have been there done that as well and thus Baseops.Net Flight Planning and Aviation Weather is a great resource. That site has actual AF pilots, not friends of friends. Your opinion is based on second hand, passed down info. That's why the title of his thread is military pilots come in, not wannabe's. Bad gouge is bad gouge.

Yes, they are people who I consider friends. I talked to dozens of people about my options, and most of them were pilots and even an IP or two. I talked to multiple F-16 pilots at our base here, I talked to a C-130 (now KC-135) pilot, I talked to an IP from Vance AFB, I talked to two students at Vance AFB, I talked to retired F-15 pilot, et al. What I posted is what they told me and I will 100% take their word over some swabbie on the internet. I don't dispute that the best advice comes from those who have been there. Those are the people that gave me the information I posted. If that has not been your experience I don't give a shit. As I said, their word means a lot more to me than yours does and it has been reinforced by those at the academies.

The percentage is smaller than the pilots no doubt but making general is what defines success in the military? Then very, very few people are successful. Here is an older study for your review.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/saas/danskine.pdf

I never said becoming a general was a measure of success in the military, that's just you trying to put words in my mouth. What I said was that if advancement beyond Colonel was a consideration you almost have to be a pilot. Based on your own link, fighter pilots make up over 60% of the command positions but make up only 5% of officers. That's just fighter pilots. Almost 20% of AF officers are pilots of some kind, also per a link you provided. Chances are that most of the other generals come from the 75% of the pilots that are not in fighters. Your own links are not helping your cause. In this matter.

As I said before, you have your opinion and that's fine. I am passing along information I obtained first hand from people who have been there and done that, and done it a helluva lot more than you have. If you can't live with that it's your problem. I'm done here.

 

[bunk22]

Look, not going to argue on the net with a wannabe
and never has been. For the OP, listen to those who have been there done that. I am a Navy pilot so that's my expertise. Go to base ops for valid info on the AF. Listening to some kid who has spoke with friends of somebody who knows an Air Force pilot is a complete waste. If u have any questions reagrding Navy flying, flight school, PM me. Unlike the poster above, I'm not a wannabe.

 

[bunk22]

For the OP, listen only to those who have been there done that. Not some wannabe or never has been. I'm a Navy pilot so if you have any q's regarding Navy, PM me. Don't waste time on second and third hand info like from the above poster. He knows jack shit. Go to baseops.