Little Talledega Track prep...

[Tyler72]

Hey guys, I'm trying to prepare myself and my car for my first real road course. On Oct 4 we are doing a private HPDE at Little Talledega in AL. I have done plenty of spirited driving on US129 (The tail of the dragon) and the Cherohala Skyway, and probably 10 or so Auto X events since buying my Boss LS.

I'm looking for any advice you can give me, as the car is 100% stock suspension/tire wise. I do have the brake cooling ducts, transmission cooler scoop, and the front splitter that come with the LS package, but I never installed them since I do drive it on the street quite a bit. I know I don't want to keep the splitter on full time because it'll end up getting ripped off, but is it worth installing before the trip? Also, the brake ducts... Is it something I could install and forget about or do they interfere with sharp turns (contact with wheels/tires)??? I just want the LS specific parts to remain in good shape. I don't mind using them, but I don't want to damage them and I don't want to do anything that will make the car less streetable.

Which shock settings? In my auto cross events I run the front on 2 and rear on 5 to help fight under-steer but that really seems to induce over-steer at higher speeds on the street, so I assume it would be the same on the road course? Tire pressure? Been running 32 PSI all the way around.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Deranged2013]

My brake cooling ducts do interfere with the tires. Mine already have worn down to small holes where the tires hit . Hopefully the duct is cheap to replace. Not sure about the install, my car came with them. The trans cooler scoop is very easy to install. For the shocks, I set mine at 5 in the front and 4 or 3 in the rear.

 

[86Fbody]

The ducts interfere unless you really take the time to cinch them back away from the tires. Mine have rubbed through and I have patched them with duct tape, which you could wrap around parts you thought would get hit. As far as streetable, I run my ducts full time on the street and have had no issues with them. And like Deranged said, I would try full stiff on the front and maybe 4 or 3 in the rear. You could always do 5/5 all the way around and dial it back after a session.

 

[Tyler72]

Would I really see the benefits of them on a track that doesnt have a lot of elevation change? How about the splitter? Anybody running one? Can you tell a difference in the car's behavior with it vs without it?

 

[5 DOT 0]

Would I really see the benefits of them on a track that doesnt have a lot of elevation change? How about the splitter? Anybody running one? Can you tell a difference in the car's behavior with it vs without it?

Install the brake cooling ducts but leave the splitter in the box. If the brake duct hoses are installed correctly there will be no rubbing. Mine have been installed for two years with many track days and there are no holes in my hoses. You'll want to add a good DOT 4 brake fluid as well and I'd install better brake pads that can handle more heat like Pagid, Carbotech, Hawk of PFC. Think of this as a safety issue for you and the other guys on track with you.

 

[Tyler72]

Yeah... I bought enough amsoil DOT 4 to flush the system.

If I have time I'll flush it out. I was sorta waiting on swapping it until I upgrade the rotors and hoses.

Anyone else got any suggestions? :shrug:

Its just for fun, there's no "racing". I'm not even sure if they'll be timing our laps.

 

[isrboss]

Including the cost of the track, how much money do you have for car prep? I know you got dot 4 Amsoil fluid, but I would put that in the family car, you need better for the track.

 

[Danman0469]

Having personally done 3 track days at TGPR, I can tell you that track is hell on brakes and tires. You'll be on the brakes almost as much as you are the gas. Definitely get good pads and fluid. Dont run on stock fluid, it WILL boil. I use Motul RBF 600. If you run sessions all day, bet on your tires being pretty much shot. I've seen guys have to drive home with belts showing from there. 32 PSI is a good starting point for tire pressure. After you finish the first session, you should be several PSI higher. I like to leave them at about 36-37 once they get heat in them.

Watch it in the last turn, small chicane, i spun there twice in the stang. If it rains, take turn 3 waaay outside. Don't get on the shiny black patch on the inside.

All in all, its a fun, and safe, little track to run at.

Oh, and get the racechrono app on your phone. Its a lap timer, and its free, and it works pretty damn good. Have fun and be safe!

 

[Tyler72]

Awesome! First hand experience is exactly what I was looking for. I thought the Amsoil was supposed to be a really good fluid, & I'm a dealer so I get it at a decent price so I thought I would try it. I'll look into something else though. I guess I'll definitely install the brake ducts & might as well toss on the splitter too while I'm at it, even if its not a big help. I will definitely download that app & give it a try!

As far as money to spend... Uh, I only owe about $60 on track day to be paid up. But in all honesty I'm trying to pay off some bills so I am focusing my "extra" money there. Don't get me wrong, its not that I don't want to spend the money, I just don't want to waste it on something that's not going to he a big benefit. Once I get the last of these paid off, my next updrades will be 2 piece rotors all around (14" rear upgrade), & stainless braided hoses, & possibly a set of dedicated track pads. I'd also like to get a dedicated set of wheels & tires for the track too but that's a little further down the road.

 

[86Fbody]

I honestly wouldn't waste the money on two piece rotors unless you really want to be competitive. I thought about going this route but was swayed against it buy a member from BMO, Pufferfish, who on the track ravages his car and said he would be keeping stock rotors, reason:they are cheap to replace. I think he said about 50 a rotor, probably from Tousley. Look into the Motul or Stoptech, I went with the Stoptech STR 600 and it is a huge improvement over stock. With the ducts your pads may last a little longer then usual, but you will find they suck compared to even HPS pads, which aren't meant for the track.

 

[Tyler72]

They sent the track day rules out via email yesterday. It's looking like we may not get a whip lot of time on the track which blows. There are 17 cars. In the morning, we have a class, then we will be doing run groups of 3 cars for about 15 mins each. Then we will stop for lunch. After lunch we have the second class, & then run groups of 5 for 15 minutes.

I have flogged the hell out of the car on the cherohala skyway for longer periods if time with no issues even without cooling ducts, & you are really testing out your brakes on that road. I think I'm just going to swap the fluid out for the Amsoil since I already have it, plus ill install the cooling ducts & the splitter too. Surely it will be fine with such short sessions.

 

[86Fbody]

If anything you will just need new pads sooner. I thought similarly when I went to my first PDX at Summit Shenandoah, after the 2nd heat or so I realized the brakes were getting too hot to quickly. After the brake ducts they lasted longer but still ended up fading pretty quickly.

 

[STAMPEDE3]

They sent the track day rules out via email yesterday. It's looking like we may not get a whip lot of time on the track which blows. There are 17 cars. In the morning, we have a class, then we will be doing run groups of 3 cars for about 15 mins each. Then we will stop for lunch. After lunch we have the second class, & then run groups of 5 for 15 minutes.

I have flogged the hell out of the car on the cherohala skyway for longer periods if time with no issues even without cooling ducts, & you are really testing out your brakes on that road. I think I'm just going to swap the fluid out for the Amsoil since I already have it, plus ill install the cooling ducts & the splitter too. Surely it will be fine with such short sessions.

From what I can see you will have a new apprciation for open track after this.

We used to run 20 min sessions.
After 3 you are decently tired.
Most I've done is 5 in one day and I was slap worn out.
You can boil fluid in that short of time.
It is just as much about driver as it is car in HPDEs

15 minutes of pushing on the track is harder than 30+ on the street in most cases although you think you flogged it hard on the street.

 

[isrboss]

Tyler, if you got a deal on the Amsoil fluid then it doesn't hurt to give it a shot and see if it holds up. Sorry I came off like it was like using your average fluid( I boiled ATE which has similar boiling points). I have done 3 track days on stock Brembo pads and they do fine, just expect to brake early for the first few laps until you learn their characteristics. I like the initial bite but you really need to stand on them hard after that. I just recently went with Porterfield R4-E front pads and I'm much happier, look at LPI they have the best price shipped. You will cook the stock pads fast so make sure you have over 50% left.

Like others have said, I agree 2 piece rotors are a huge cost that is not necessary. I'm about to give the Wearever Advance Auto rotors a shot, for 53 a rotor if they can hold up for 3 track days, that's not bad. Same with the lines, just leave those be for now.

Good luck!

 

[Danman0469]

Believe me, you will have MORE than enough track time by the end of the day there... I'm assuming this is your first track day? It will be an eye opening experience. Driving hard on the street is nothing compared to open track sessions. I'm usually tired by lunch, by the end of the day there, its all I can do to hold my arms up on the steering wheel

 

[Tyler72]

Thanks so much guys! I really really appreciate the feedback.

ISRBoss, I in no way took your comment in a bad way at all, and I do understand where you are coming from. Like everything else, theres good, and then there's the best. I looked at the rated temps for different fluids, and while Amsoil isn't the highest, I felt like it was sorta the best bang for the buck for me. If I start tracking the car more frequently, I may swap to something different, but as a whole, the info I have gathered suggests that with better pads and the cooling ducts I'll be ok. If the amsoil boils I'll have to swap that out, but on average it seems that it was only rated about 12* cooler than the "better" DOT4 fluids.

I'll look into a set of pads. Should I get just fronts or do all 4? And what brand is best bang for the buck?

 

[isrboss]

Thanks so much guys! I really really appreciate the feedback.

ISRBoss, I in no way took your comment in a bad way at all, and I do understand where you are coming from. Like everything else, theres good, and then there's the best. I looked at the rated temps for different fluids, and while Amsoil isn't the highest, I felt like it was sorta the best bang for the buck for me. If I start tracking the car more frequently, I may swap to something different, but as a whole, the info I have gathered suggests that with better pads and the cooling ducts I'll be ok. If the amsoil boils I'll have to swap that out, but on average it seems that it was only rated about 12* cooler than the "better" DOT4 fluids.

I'll look into a set of pads. Should I get just fronts or do all 4? And what brand is best bang for the buck?

There is so little braking going on in the rear, that I have just been swapping fronts. This is my 4th set of front pads and the rear looks new. As far as best bang for the buck, I search and researched and I came up with the Porterfield R4-E pads from LPI shipped for under $200. They did much better than the stock pads, and I was never worried of the brakes giving up on me. I just went out the first session to get a feel for them, then was just happy I finally put on a set of track pads. Now I just have to get off street tires.

 

[Tyler72]

Cool. Do you know what the part number is? I looked and they list multiple part numbers for a 2013 Mustang... there's no specification for brembo brakes or not and I have no idea what the shape of the stock pads are lol. I guess I could take it apart to look at them but if someone know which ones I need off hand it would be easier!

 

[isrboss]

Cool. Do you know what the part number is? I looked and they list multiple part numbers for a 2013 Mustang... there's no specification for brembo brakes or not and I have no idea what the shape of the stock pads are lol. I guess I could take it apart to look at them but if someone know which ones I need off hand it would be easier!

AP1001 R4E I went with the E compound because I am still on street tires and I did not want a pad that put me in ABS too easy.

 

[Tyler72]

Well... I made it back in one piece and so did the car! Out of every one there that was really pushing their cars, I was the only one who had absolutely no brake issues. After the first several laps I could start smelling them, but they never really faded. After they got hot, the initial bite seemed to fade some but it was still slowing down fine. My front tires... uh... they've seen better days lol! I think they'll be ok for a little more street use, but their track use is over. The right front is the worst... turn 4 has opposite banking so its just hell on the front tires. I didn't have much trouble on turn 3 once I learned the line... stay way outside during the 1st half of the turn, then turn in tight for a late apex & gently roll into the throttle after passing the apex and hammer down towards turn 4. Gearing was a little short, a 3.55 would be more fitting for that track in my car.

I have an auto cross this coming Sunday so I'm going to try and get a new set of wheels and some race slicks here before then so I can attend.