Kill the new GTO

[baddogz28]

OK, grandestang, I'll reply to your rumbling, bumbling post.

First off it is well established that cobras dyno higher than Z06's stock.

Uh, OK... I guess all Cobras dyno higher than all Z06's stock? That is the silliest thing I have ever heard. Maybe some (or many?) do, but making a blanket statement like that is just stupid. Who established that, you?

And then you woke up.

Stop thinking the LS1 is such a magically awesome engine

:cryying:

Its a great package from the factory

:??:

I'll settle for GREAT, you gigantic douchebag. :idea:

If you think that than you just don't have alot of experience with pushrod engines period

I guess if good power and good torque right out of the box, lots of modding potential, and the ability to get 28 mpgs on the highway doesn't signify to you quality engineering, you can't be helped. Take your ignorant, closed minded views and sit on them.

Should I go on, or wait for you to retort?

 

[baddogz28]

This post is in response to an earlier post of someone:??: who deleted it recently. But not before I read it and almost shit my pants I laughed so hard.

The ls1 is a great engine because of the cubes -346. Do you think this engine would be so great if they only used the 305 cid. (remember those shitty irocs).

So i suppose that any engine with big cubes is great? :nonono: That was a pretty silly thing to say, considering you are trying to sound like you know what you are talking about.

And while some Irocs had 305's, good ones had the B2L/L98 5.7 Tuned Port Injection 350ci 245hp. Not bad for 1990. Wrong again, junior.:rollseyes

If, if, if, if, if. But they didn't use the 305. So there. :shrug:
That's like me saying "what if" the Cobra wasn't SC. But it IS, I just disagree with Fords approach to making power.

Sorry I had to :kaboom: your post.

 

[baddogz28]

Whitten, are you on the supercar registry?

Sorry for the triple post.

 

[Whitten]

Well I used to talk over there just a bit.

 

[wals9331]

Why isnt this shait in smackdown?

 

[Whitten]

Well it started out here because people were comparing the Cobra to the GTO per a magazine article claiming the GTO beat out the 04 Cobra in Car and Drivers latest car shoot out. Now the convo has gone to this, but I really don't think it has gotten to the point where everyone is chomping at the bit to kill each other yet....

 

[sam]

the gto is a good performer. its funny that it just has not caught on where i live. i have only seen 1 black since it came out on the road. has to be the cost for what your getting is my guess.

 

[baddogz28]

Hey Whitten, do you know hvychev from the Registry? He is one of my good friends. He just bought a Yenko Deuce.

 

[Cobra-Master]

I ditched my '00 Camaro Z28 for an '03 Cobra. I was like Harry, I was a GM fan all the way, but I couldn't stand the direction GM is taking with their products. Just look at that SS pickup, that's a joke answer to the Lightnings (if that's what it was?). I originally owned both a 95 Cobra and the Z28 at the same time, and we loved the 95 Cobra so much more than the Z28, that's when we decided to get an '03 Cobra... and that was the right decision all the way.

My '03 Cobra is so much better than the F-body I owned. GM can flush that LS1/LS6 down the crapper, I'll keep my S/C 4.6L!

 

[baddogz28]

My '03 Cobra is so much better than the F-body I owned

As "The Dude" from the Big Lebowski said- "That's just, like, your opinion, man. " :thumbsup:

http://home.comcast.net/~baddogz28/top_gear46.avi

 

[WS.6 Man]

I recently test drove '04 Cobra, '04 BMW 545i w/sport package, and the '04 GTO. The Cobra and the 545i left a big smile on my face and the GTO did not. The only thing I like about the GTO is the interior and comfort. I think GM should have not given the new GTO a Pontiac Grand Am/Grand Prix/Boneville (sp) front end. I saw the Holden Monaro upclose in Australia & New Zealand last year during a business trip. The Monaro looks sporty because of its front end. IMO Pontiac wants to be like Benz & Bimmer, giving their cars a similar front end. And that is a mistake for a muscle car which should have its unique look i.e. Mustang & Late F-bodies.

Back to the GTO I thinks its okay, but should have had a front end like the Monaro, wider tires/wheels, an LS6 Motor from the factory for first model year, and Fuctional Ram Air Scoops etc. Especially for a price of $33K Plus. The car feels slow after driving my WS.6 and new Cobra. And maybe GM did not have enough time, but they should have restyled the rear passenger window of the Monaro/GTo to avoid giving it the Chevy Cavilar (sp) look.

I don't the think the new GTO is selling well. My local Pontiac Dealership has a $10K mark-up, and now they are trying to sell them for under MSRP at $31K. For me the car is affordable, but should have came from with the LS6 Motor, and bit more aggressive look. To be honest "IF" I was in the market for a sports car I would go with the '04 Cobra or a new C5 Vettes which are going for $35K Plus. Or if I had to give up performance I would go with a G35 Coupe. Also if I was not in a rush I would wait and see how the '05 GTO looks, rumors are there will be some styling change and have the upcoming LS2 Motor. I'm not 100% brand loyal, so I would buy any nice performance car.

Anyways I am glad to see GM is getting back in the high performance rear wheel drive car market.

 

[baddogz28]

Yeah, I don't agree with the looks but the LS powerplant is a quality piece- I'll be interested to see what the 05 Judge looks like... Supposedly it'll have the LS2 and a lot meaner look.

 

[grandestang]

baddog... great is a long ways from awesome.

Why do some immature people get soo offended when they are challenged? Calling me a douche bag is just well, pathetic. It shows I caught you on something and you get into "defense" mode instead of trying to argue reasonably. Close minded? Okay I own a '70 Mustang with a 351W, and a '98 Cobra- I am on both sides of the equation. If anyone is being close minded it is you my friend. Why not come up with a legitamate counter argument, instead of trying to twist my words around and flame me?

Now Whitten, I am enjoying this discussion very much as well and I appreciate how you have been contending my arguments respecfully and not immaturely like baddogz28.

Getting back now, properly tuned carbed motors have been proven dyno after dyno to meet or exceed fuel injected motors. 10 years ago carbs dominated compared to EFI (top end hp wise) but now fuel injection and carbed cars are quite comparable. Now from driveability/economy/emmissions standpoint you have me beat, fuel injection rules there. It would be difficult to do a direct comparason between the two as well, because you would always have a difference in the intake manifold used, so in this there would be an inconsistency. I have yet to see a carburated motor however, be hampered by the fact that it is indeed carburated, when the opposite can be true at times with fuel injection.

EDIT: Oh, and another one for bad dog. You want me to back up my claim of Cobras dynoing higher than Z06s... here you go.
http://dynoperformance.com/article_details.php?ID=28

Paul

 

[Captain Beyond]

Originally posted by baddogz28
This post is in response to an earlier post of someone:??: who deleted it recently. But not before I read it and almost shit my pants I laughed so hard.


:lol:

Deleted post? What are you looking at? Go to the top of this page. It's still there. Not only are you blind with your assumptions but you must be literally blind. :loser:

 

[Captain Beyond]

Originally posted by Whitten
Ib6-Ub9 do you think I should go back to my web site?

Really and truely this is all subjective, and for the most part has nothing to do with the technology of one motor over another, but more to do with preference. I love both, I think they did a great job with both. I am not going to aargue what is faster, because either one could beat the other depending on the driver. The cubic inch card that is played on thsi argument is old, and it really harkens me back to the days of listening to ricer drivel about how they have more horsepower per ci then any v8, and if they had a v8 that was efficient as their motor in their car that they could beat me.... Same time I don't think that the LS motors have it all ironed out either. I have had numerous people tell me that theat the little 4.6 just able to contend with the LS, when that is absolutely not the case. Anyway, this is a very boaring thing to argue as we all know there are both kinds of cars out there that can wax the other, it is all about preference.

I will totally agree with you Whitten. Unlike some, you know what you are talking about. :beer:

I also agree with you about the cubic inch card, but the ls1 guys also play the Cobra supercharger card too.

 

[baddogz28]

The reason I called you a douchebag, grandestang, is because you felt the need in one of your earlier posts to say I don't know anything about cars, instead of just disagreeing with me, and that is where I draw the line. On a car site, could anything be more insulting? :nonono:

And, at no time did I twist your words around, it was you, sir who wrote them. If you can't deal with somebody quoting your posts, don't post. :nonono:

As far as the relationship between the words "awesome" and "great":

They don't call Michael Jordan the most "awesome" player to have played basketball, they call him the "greatest."

I can't see how the word's meanings are so different, but I do see somebody (you) getting defensive about putting your foot in your mouth in the post I referenced. Maybe you'd have a valid argument if you just said the LS1 is just an "okay" package from the factory. :idea:

So you know, I am no longer replying to your posts as they are neither coherant nor intelligent.:bash:

Deleted post? What are you looking at? Go to the top of this page. It's still there. Not only are you blind with your assumptions but you must be literally blind.

:rollseyes

Uh-oh... Ya got me... I couldn't find the post I was talking about while I was sifting through your irrelevant posts. So what.:shrug:
That doesn't cleanse you of the stupidity you displayed in that particular post.:bored:

 

[28]

This has to be the story told and retold....This argument will go on,get ugly,and eventually get someone booted...I've said it before and I'll say it again...The LT1's from what,93 to 97,then the LS1's from then on are all great motors...I've seen a few of my friends do their thing to them and be right their with the modular cars...But I'll say again that the 305's and yes,even the L98's were crap...I'm sorry to say it,but they had nothing on the 302 's in the Mustangs of the same time(up to 92 or 93)...Chevy got out of beeing so friggin cheap and put the LT1 thereafter....Too bad they couldn't sell them cause they,once again,got to be great cars...But in all honesty Baddog,you truly can't say that the pushrod engines are as tecnologically advanced or as efficient as the ohc modulars...That's just a moot and biased statement...And dude...I'm back to a 5.0 from a DOHC Cobra....So you can't say I'm beeing biased either.....Like my buddy Freaky says..."Pushrods save lives..."................lol...

 

[baddogz28]

Yeah, you are right- I never said the L98's are good engines, and I never said that the 4.6 was bad, I just said that the LS1 is by no means lo-tech or inefficient.

All told, those 5.0s are badass motors (along w/ LS1's + 4v 4.6 SC.) I'd personally rather have a 225 hp 302 than a 260 hp 4.6.

 

[grandestang]

Baddog, not twisting my words around eh? Did I ever say "greatest", no, I said great. Didn't they teach you in kindergarten? Theres great, greater, and greatest --> a progression that logically leaves great at the bottom. Scotty Pippen is a "great" player but he is not the "greatest" Michael Jordan is a "greater" player, and some say the "greatest" to every play. Have I lost you yet? Because this really isn't that complicated.

Valid argument? You haven't discussed one bit of technical information supporting you're argument, you just keep trying to belittle me. I said you knew nothing about cars b/c you were throwing around factory horespower ratings like they were the "one all deciding factor" and justifying how that made one engine better than the other. Anyone who knows anything about cars knows factory ratings aren't all that reliable. You should know that more than anyone with the very underrated factory rating for the LS1.

You might not reply to this post as you said you wouldn't, but you will definitely read it, so if you have any more stupid things to say, don't be a hypocrite and keep them to your self.

Paul

 

[memphisstang]

grandestang,
Thanks for the informative and OBJECTIVE dyno info.