Is the Trinity still "King of the Hill"???

[Norton]

I have no idea what is (and has been) in development at Ford, but a better current question is......What can the DCT handle for power mods? We are currently at 760HP, it is not unreasonable to think that a minimum of 150HP could be added by an owner once the aftermarket gets up to speed, will the DCT be up to that task...........900+HP?

I don't remember what the 900 and 1000HP optioned Super Snakes have for a 6 speed, or the Shelby 1000, but I have not heard owners over on Team Shelby discussing how their 6 speed manual (probably a variation, maybe modded of the TR-6060) have been coming apart. For that matter, I have heard no complaints from any 2013/14 850HP Super Snake owner either and that is the oem Ford TR-6060..........So in reality, it may have continued on into the 900 and 1000HP optioned cars with only a clutch and shifter upgrade?

If a variation of the current 6 speed will hold the power, I can't see why a bell housing couldn't be retro'ed to the S550............or a completely new box with more manual gears.

That is one of the main things I have heard people on these forums complain about.......No manual option.......as was mentioned above......for the fun of it, not to mention more driver interaction.

Great points, though I'm pretty sure torque (rather than HP) is the DCTs current LIMFAC. IIRC, the DCT's TQ limit is around 650 ft-lbs, meaning it will tolerate little (if any) increase over stock unless it's beefed-up. I'm not a DCT expert, but I've heard that's a very expensive proposition.

Prior to 2015, Super Snakes and Shelby 1000 relied on TR-6060.

 

[Robert M]

I never said they'd come apart. The t6060 was known for high rpm lock out. This gt500 spins more rpm than any gt500 prior.

The 15-16 super snakes had the mt82 or an auto.

Yes, and they are Mustang GT's, and their transmissions.............Not GT500's............BUT, they do get heavier duty half shafts from what I have read.

With some redesign, the issues with the TR-6060 could be worked out, and actually have been when the transmission is sent to a shop that knows the issue(s) and has the fixes for them.


R

 

[Robert M]

Great points, though I'm pretty sure torque (rather than HP) is the DCTs current LIMFAC. IIRC, the DCT's TQ limit is around 650 ft-lbs, meaning it will tolerate little (if any) increase over stock unless it's beefed-up. I'm not a DCT expert, but I've heard that's a very expensive proposition.

Prior to 2015, Super Snakes and Shelby 1000 relied on TR-6060.

Yes, I would think the DCT will have it's share of aftermarket companies and mods, but yes, the price.

In the GT500 world, 650 ft-lbs is not where it needs to be, but yes , it sound like that is where it is after the extensive R&D that Ford has put it through over the last 2-3 years for this GT500 project?

R

 

[stanger1]

Ya know,
There are times when I wish my 13 GT500 was an Auto, such as heavy traffic or when somebody wants a pull form a stop light. It would be much easier to launch consistently.
But then, just driving and rowing the gears, that is were the fun of a manual trans is fun and enjoyable.
Don't think i would trade the manual for auto full time.

 

[Robert M]

Ya know,
There are times when I wish my 13 GT500 was an Auto, such as heavy traffic or when somebody wants a pull form a stop light. It would be much easier to launch consistently.
But then, just driving and rowing the gears, that is were the fun of a manual trans is fun and enjoyable.
Don't think i would trade the manual for auto full time.

I agree, and it can be fun both ways depending upon "the mood" and traffic situations.

R

 

[Dusten]

Great points, though I'm pretty sure torque (rather than HP) is the DCTs current LIMFAC. IIRC, the DCT's TQ limit is around 650 ft-lbs, meaning it will tolerate little (if any) increase over stock unless it's beefed-up. I'm not a DCT expert, but I've heard that's a very expensive proposition.

Prior to 2015, Super Snakes and Shelby 1000 relied on TR-6060.

Yes, I would think the DCT will have it's share of aftermarket companies and mods, but yes, the price.

In the GT500 world, 650 ft-lbs is not where it needs to be, but yes , it sound like that is where it is after the extensive R&D that Ford has put it through over the last 2-3 years for this GT500 project?

R

650 ft/lbs at what gvwr?

I still stand by that ford went through all that r&d on the dct, just to completely redo the car for a manual nwxt year is pretty unlikely.

Source a manual. Work on all engine management from scratch. No.

 

[Robert M]

650 ft/lbs at what gvwr?

I still stand by that ford went through all that r&d on the dct, just to completely redo the car for a manual nwxt year is pretty unlikely.

Source a manual. Work on all engine management from scratch. No.

I agree about the manual, it may not be next year........and has anyone heard about 2020 GT500 gross vehicle weight? That is an important factor for sure

I guess once the guys start throwing slicks on the back after modding under the hood, that will tell where the weak points are?

R

 

[biminiLX]

I'm not arguing the stick is "better" in objectively measurable way(s). I accept that modern DCTs turn faster times at the strip. I simply prefer driving a stick with three pedals.

Most of the ongoing debates are like arguing whether the S197 or S550 platform looks better, or whether Coke or Pepsi tastes better. The answers are individual, based on personal preferences, and no amount of "reasoning" will change that - each of us knows what we "like."

I respect you buddy and I was asking a serious question because I think many have an idea the stick is the only way to be connected. Partly because it’s all they know. Sure in auto mode the DCT will be more like a conventional auto, but when driving aggressively, the DCT was very engaging and very fun. I’m a pretty good stick driver but I thought the DCT would not only outperform me, but allowed me to enjoy the experience more by having focus on the handling and braking and not worrying about the shifts, which we both know aren’t perfect in a high power remote shifter application.
I drove an ACR Viper before and after 2 very good DCTs and I left thinking the Viper would have been better on track with the DCT.
These were my thoughts even before meeting the Ford engineer who admittedly said he was won over by this DCT even as a die hard stick guy.
-J

 

[biminiLX]

Great points, though I'm pretty sure torque (rather than HP) is the DCTs current LIMFAC. IIRC, the DCT's TQ limit is around 650 ft-lbs, meaning it will tolerate little (if any) increase over stock unless it's beefed-up. I'm not a DCT expert, but I've heard that's a very expensive proposition.

Prior to 2015, Super Snakes and Shelby 1000 relied on TR-6060.

The torque limit of the TR6060 is about the same.
As someone mentioned it’s rated at a much larger weight.
I really don’t know if any conventional manual rated in an OEM application for over 700ftlbs.
-J

 

[biminiLX]

I have no idea what is (and has been) in development at Ford, but a better current question is......What can the DCT handle for power mods? We are currently at 760HP, it is not unreasonable to think that a minimum of 150HP could be added by an owner once the aftermarket gets up to speed, will the DCT be up to that task...........900+HP?

I don't remember what the 900 and 1000HP optioned Super Snakes have for a 6 speed, or the Shelby 1000, but I have not heard owners over on Team Shelby discussing how their 6 speed manual (probably a variation, maybe modded of the TR-6060) have been coming apart. For that matter, I have heard no complaints from any 2013/14 850HP Super Snake owner either and that is the oem Ford TR-6060..........So in reality, it may have continued on into the 900 and 1000HP optioned cars with only a clutch and shifter upgrade?

If a variation of the current 6 speed will hold the power, I can't see why a bell housing couldn't be retro'ed to the S550............or a completely new box with more manual gears.

That is one of the main things I have heard people on these forums complain about.......No manual option.......as was mentioned above......for the fun of it, not to mention more driver interaction.

R

No offense Robert, but very few guys push the high power SA cars on track, so it’s not a great comparison.
The biggest issue on the new 500 will be high rpm shift performance, which is an even bigger negative to the TR6060 trying to rifle off 7500-8000rpm shifts.
And the main issue in strength with high power is launches, with even fewer pushing them on the drag strip or drag radials.
The DCT ‘should’ be better even in modded applications.
All TBD however.
-J

 

[Norton]

I respect you buddy and I was asking a serious question because I think many have an idea the stick is the only way to be connected. Partly because it’s all they know. Sure in auto mode the DCT will be more like a conventional auto, but when driving aggressively, the DCT was very engaging and very fun. I’m a pretty good stick driver but I thought the DCT would not only outperform me, but allowed me to enjoy the experience more by having focus on the handling and braking and not worrying about the shifts, which we both know aren’t perfect in a high power remote shifter application.
I drove an ACR Viper before and after 2 very good DCTs and I left thinking the Viper would have been better on track with the DCT.
These were my thoughts even before meeting the Ford engineer who admittedly said he was won over by this DCT even as a die hard stick guy.
-J

The feeling is mutual and it's all good, my friend! Your point about the deficiencies in a high-power remote-shifter application are well-taken. In the end, it's a great time to be a "car guy," with plenty of high-performance options from which to choose.

The torque limit of the TR6060 is about the same.
As someone mentioned it’s rated at a much larger weight.
I really don’t know if any conventional manual rated in an OEM application for over 700ftlbs.
-J

Thanks for the clarification! I wasn't aware of the TR6060's limit.

 

[Robert M]

No offense Robert, but very few guys push the high power SA cars on track, so it’s not a great comparison.
The biggest issue on the new 500 will be high rpm shift performance, which is an even bigger negative to the TR6060 trying to rifle off 7500-8000rpm shifts.
And the main issue in strength with high power is launches, with even fewer pushing them on the drag strip or drag radials.
The DCT ‘should’ be better even in modded applications.
All TBD however.
-J

No offence ever taken, I am always interested in additional information.

I am interested to see how the new set up works and I also know many guys have stated on this forum and others that they would like a manual option in this type of car............all good.

I do appreciate your comments from personal experience with the DCT, first hand is always more informative than guessing how it will be.

R

 

[CD07GT500]

The 5.4/5.8 power plant is still the king of the modular world.

 

[Dusten]

The 5.4/5.8 power plant is still the king of the modular world.

The coyote says otherwise.

 

[Recon]

I really don’t know if any conventional manual rated in an OEM application for over 700ftlbs.
-J

I’d venture to say the TR6070 in the ZR1 would be the only one.




Pick your poison.

 

[CD07GT500]

The coyote says otherwise.

No they don’t.

 

[Dusten]

Whats the fastest mod motor car? Hint, it doesn't have either of those motors in it...

 

[CD07GT500]

Whats the fastest mod motor car? Hint, it doesn't have either of those motors in it...

Hint it’s a aftermarket billet block. The 5.4/4.6 went 5s with the factory block. The 5.4/5.8 also makes more power than a Coyote does in any configuration.

 

[Dusten]

Hint it’s a aftermarket billet block. The 5.4/4.6 went 5s with the factory block. The 5.4/5.8 also makes more power than a Coyote does in any configuration.

Heads are where power is made, the block is for longevity and the castings were stock...

 

[CD07GT500]

Heads are where power is made, the block is for longevity and the castings were stock...

Well good thing GT heads > Coyote heads.