Intercooler, bypass issue.. running rough!

[armyavnguy]

So tonight I finished up installing my CX Racing intercooler on my 2002 mustang, its supercharged with the Vortech V1, I swapped the pullies from the 3.60" to the 3.125" because I wanted to keep the psi around 10psi... So I keep the bypass valve that comes from Vortech originally with the kit and the MAF is a BA3000 and the IAC is in the new intake tube where it needs to be and the Meth nozzle is on the bend right before the intake tube connects to the plenum. The car started just fine and idled just fine on first crank... The problem is when I start giving it gas to get moving and get to a good consisent speed and idle with the gas pedal and start to left off to coast it starts to break up and run rough and the bypass flutters... give it gas again it hesitates for a slip second and goes smooth again till I left alittle of the gas the bypass flutters and runs rough again??? Now we did see that the tube that goes from the EGR down to the right hand valve cover (If your sitting in the car) is collapsed and not circulating and plan on changing that tomorrow but would this cause this after installing a intercooler and smaller pulley on a vortech v1? Or is it something else I am missing? Any info or suggestions are appreciated!! Thanks

 

[antcjr]

It will be best to convert your car to a blow-through MAF setup. Everyone who puts an intercooler on and keeps the draw through setup experiences drivability issues which sounds like what you're having.

If I'm not mistaking your tune should be adjusted. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

btw, how was the intercooler kit? I'm thinking about purchasing that for my car.

 

[01yellercobra]

If you kept it as a draw through you need a new tune. Adding all the pipe and the intercooler basically increases the manifold volume. So the tune needs to be adjusted to compensate for that.

 

[armyavnguy]

The kit it's self is actually pretty damn good I am super happy with it and the price and quality is good, I'm lucky enough I have a friend that owns a shop with lifts and every tool you can think of so it helped out a ton... Pipes fit great install was easy. I have pictures of the install if you ever decide to do it, it does require you to cut a hole in the front right fender support but honestly I used a hole saw and then deburred the hole and ran rubber gas line around it and it looks mint! I recommend it.

So for now I can go get a tune in this thing and it'll hopefully pan out this problem... I appreciate the info guys and if there is anymore on would be great!
I wanted to go blow-through and still am going to, but I had to keep the cost down for now and trying to find the best slot style MAF to use and blow off valve, plus trying to find someone where I live that can weld aluminum... Yeah so if anyone has recommendations on Slot-style MAF, and decent BOV shoot them my way!

 

[armyavnguy]

Anyone that has photos of where they located thier IAC, Slot-style bung for the MAF and BOV on thier intercooler setup like mine would be great.... Still new to the concept of this type of intercooler on the car and need some help and suggestions! Thanks

 

[SilverSteed]

If you want to stay draw though you will need to run 2 BPV. Pre and post intercooler. Save money in the long run and go blow thru now. You'll save the re tune later

 

[armyavnguy]

Thanks.. problem is how do I run blow through? What exactly do I need an how should I run it? Wish there were more pictures or examples for me to go off of... Anyone have pictures of thier set-ups on the 2V?

 

[antcjr]

Thanks.. problem is how do I run blow through? What exactly do I need an how should I run it? Wish there were more pictures or examples for me to go off of... Anyone have pictures of thier set-ups on the 2V?

Yeah I understand money may be tight but the car just won't really run like it should if you keep the draw through. As of right now it seems like all you need is the blow through MAF and BOV.

This link should show you how to set a blow through up as well as BOV and the IAC location. Treadstone Intercooler installed, converted to Blow-Thru MAF and Kenne Bell BAP

I also need to intercool mine and convert to blow through so you're steps ahead of me!

 

[01yellercobra]

I wanted to go blow-through and still am going to, but I had to keep the cost down for now and trying to find the best slot style MAF to use and blow off valve, plus trying to find someone where I live that can weld aluminum... Yeah so if anyone has recommendations on Slot-style MAF, and decent BOV shoot them my way!

The slot style MAF isn't a requirement to go blow through. I was blow through with a Lightning MAF and a BA2400. With my set up I needed a MAFia with both MAFs though. I never had an issue with the MAFia when I was using it. And you can use your current BOV. With a blow through set up you can vent it to atmosphere or recirculate it.

If you want to stay draw though you will need to run 2 BPV. Pre and post intercooler. Save money in the long run and go blow thru now. You'll save the re tune later

Why would he need to run 2 BOV's with a draw through set up? Plenty of people are running a single BOV in draw through set ups.

 

[SilverSteed]

Know how when you're intercooled and rolling on the highway at low throttle i.e. high rpm low throttle situations you get a bit of bucking? That solves the issue. Local guy had that issue on the dyno, I did as well. He added a second bov, I went blow through -no issues since

 

[armyavnguy]

Yeah just going to have to do it right and get the blow-through and BOV going... Thanks for that link it clears up alot visually. I talked to my tuner Pete at Performance Dyno in NH and he pretty much walked me through everything that I need and how to do it so its back to ordering some parts... Question now is what kinda BOV are people running?

Thanks again

 

[Stanger00]

The slot style MAF is a requirement to go blow through. I was blow through with a Lightning MAF and a BA2400. With my set up I needed a MAFia with both MAFs though. I never had an issue with the MAFia when I was using it. And you can use your current BOV. With a blow through set up you can vent it to atmosphere or recirculate it.



Why would he need to run 2 BOV's with a draw through set up? Plenty of people are running a single BOV in draw through set ups.

If OP is running a single black Bosch bypass valve with a intercooler then he will experience surgin and bucking. If the OP hooked up 2 black Bosch bypass valves then the drive ability issues will go away but there would still be minor flutter in high rpms.

I think you are confusing the situation here.

The OP can run the same tune as he did without the intercooler so long as he runs a pulley that puts him around the same boost before the intercooler. OP already done this.

OP to save you a ton of money just buy a Vortech mini race bypass valve and run it with the small Bosch bypass. I did this and ran that set up for years. I still have my mini race in a box waiting for a new home.

Personally, I wouldn't spend nearly 350 for a new sensor and welding plus another 300 for a BOV and then pay for a retune when all you really need is a larger bypass valve. You can pick those up for 200 and pay another 20 bucks for welding, clamps and some hose to mount it.

 

[antcjr]

If OP is running a single black Bosch bypass valve with a intercooler then he will experience surgin and bucking. If the OP hooked up 2 black Bosch bypass valves then the drive ability issues will go away but there would still be minor flutter in high rpms.

I think you are confusing the situation here.

The OP can run the same tune as he did without the intercooler so long as he runs a pulley that puts him around the same boost before the intercooler. OP already done this.

OP to save you a ton of money just buy a Vortech mini race bypass valve and run it with the small Bosch bypass. I did this and ran that set up for years. I still have my mini race in a box waiting for a new home.

Personally, I wouldn't spend nearly 350 for a new sensor and welding plus another 300 for a BOV and then pay for a retune when all you really need is a larger bypass valve. You can pick those up for 200 and pay another 20 bucks for welding, clamps and some hose to mount it.

Hmm never heard of this setup. How would you put 2 BPVs? Have any pictures?

And is "minor flutter" enough for it to feel like it needs a retune?

 

[armyavnguy]

I have the bosch bypass valve that originally came with the Vortech kit and its in... the kit I got from cx racing came with the intake tube that has a flange and BOV with it... Instead of running the intake tube that has that BOV on it I had my friend bend and make a intake pipe without the flange and just welded in the bunge to put the bypass pipe on to. I thought it was weird myself.

this is the kit with the BOV that came with it... I am not sure hot it works with a bypass and a BOV

CXRacing Intercooler Piping kit for 96-04 Ford Mustang 4.6L V8 with Vortech V2 Supercharger. - YouTube

 

[01yellercobra]

I corrected my earlier message about the slot style MAF. It was supposed to say the slot style ISN'T required for blow through.

Here's my experience:

When I put my Procharger on back in 2006 it was draw through. I had a Lightning MAF and a Vortech Mini Race. The car ran like crap. It bucked, surged, and stalled. The back wash over the MAF was crazy. After that I switched to blow through and the car was completely different. It ran so much better. No more bucking and surging. I will never go back to a draw through set up. Especially with an intercooler.

If the OP stays draw through and adds an intercooler he will need a retune. All the pipe between the MAF and the throttle effectively increases manifold volume. That has to be accounted for in the tune.

As for a BOV, I ran the Vortech Mini Race for a few years. It fluttered a bit with my set up at 14psi. So this time around I'm running a Tial Q. It definitly flows enough air. My whole neighborhood can tell you that.

 

[armyavnguy]

Hey man I am with you! I know there are many different ways to run intercoolers, BOV, Bypasses. And the way your describing it it sounds like it would work for sure! Well in your case it defiantly did.

 

[armyavnguy]

The Tial Q is what I have been looking at... What spring rate would I need if I am running at about 10psi?

 

[01yellercobra]

They have a spring just for superchargers. It's a 2 or 3psi spring.

 

[Stanger00]

If the OP stays draw through and adds an intercooler he will need a retune. All the pipe between the MAF and the throttle effectively increases manifold volume. That has to be accounted for in the tune.

As for a BOV, I ran the Vortech Mini Race for a few years. It fluttered a bit with my set up at 14psi. So this time around I'm running a Tial Q. It definitly flows enough air. My whole neighborhood can tell you that.

Your theory doesnt make sense to me. You add more pipe and you get more volume, true. To reduce the volume you must add a larger bypass valve. Thats the fix not a retune. However, I dont think a 3.6" V1 Vortech made 10psi at 6k rpms. I think OP should of went with a 3.33" pulley to put him at the same boost level with the intercooler.

I also ran a draw thru setup with a modular powerhouse powerpipe. I installed one of Tim Barths mongoose kits in 2005 and before I installed the mini race bypass valve my car bucked and surged because the little bosch unit couldnt handle the extra volume. Once the mini race went in my car drove just fine and I had a tiny bit of psh, psh at high rpms when I let off the throttle. Granted my car was only pullied to run 10psi but it showed 11-12 most of the time. My set up was a Vortech V2 with 3.1 pulley and paxton intercooler. I did have a little bit of MAF wash but it didnt cause any stalling issues and I ran 3 different tunes on the car from 3 different vendors. I do agree that a draw thru MAF has its problems because I experienced all of them in the 7 years I ran it on my car.

I swtiched to a blow-thru setup because I wanted a cleaner stock appearance under the hood when I installed a new motor. I also installed a more aggressive cam so a blow-thur was the only way to go to minimize any part throttle goofyness on the street. My 2 valve idles at 12" of vacuum. I run a VMP 05 slot style maf and a Tial Q with 3 psi spring. I was told my car wouldnt run with the 6psi spring. I nearly hate driving because of how loud the damn thing is. The novelty wore off quickly.

Edit: here is a pic of how I ran the mini race. The stock Bosch is underneath.

 

[armyavnguy]

Yeah First post I said I took of the 3.60" and swapped into the 3.125" with the hope of getting 10psi through the intercooler setup now.