HPP problems

[kook911]

Ok here is the situation. Sometime in Dec of 05 I melted three pistons in my car. I brought it up to HPP to let them rebuild it. I got the car back in Jan of 06. I ask them if they found out what cause the problem that melted the pistons the first place. Well they couldn’t find out the problem. I ask him what your guarantee is if the problem comes back. He says that he will back his work. I ended up spending a little over 7 grand. So after I pick the car up, not even 500 miles later I have the same problem, but this time I burnt four pistons. Well this time Manny wants to check the fuel injectors to see if they are flowing right. They weren’t, five were bad, two were good and one not even working.

Here is the dilemma, I think he should have to pay for the pistons and eat the cost of the labor and everything else. I paid over 7 grand to get the problem fix the first time. Many say he is going to try to work with me on a price but I think very little should come out of my pocket. Let me know what you guys think on this.

 

[TEABG]

Wow, Hope Your Situation Will Start Heading Up In The Positive Direction. It Sounds Like For Something Like This To Transpire Twice In Such A Short Period Of Time That It Is A Tuning Issue In My Opinion. Good Luck.........

 

[Jdaniel]

I can tell you that my personal experiences with them arent that great either. My buddy took his Saleen (with the Paxton Novi 2000 swap) there to get tuned. Well, for some reason it kept detonating at only 10 lbs of boost while spraying methanol and using TorqO! The car only made 404 hp WITH full exhaust and a few other mods. It still detonates anything over 3500 rpms after the motor is warmed. They said it wanst the tune and sent him about his way. I wouldnt have left without it tuned better but I was out of town.

 

[blackvenom77]

This thread is going to get ugly!!!

 

[03btchnsnake]

:bored: op:

 

[kook911]

This thread is going to get ugly!!!

Here is something else I forgot to add. When I got my car tune by them in Nov 05 it was just a week later the car melted three pistons. The car went from stock to having the following mods done by them. You heard the car detonation on the dyno. They only took maybe 15 minutes and five pulls to tune the car. They didn’t spend anytime on the car. I personally think it was the tune that destroyed that motor the first time.

Stage IV port (I put it on the car my self)
2.76
2lb lower
JLT CAI
Mafia
Spark plugs IR6
Tuned the car
Stingers

 

[apg2369]

FIRST OFF ANY GOOD ENGINE BUILDER WILL HAVE INJECTORS FLOW TESTED AFTER AN ENGINE MELT DOWN (PERIOD).....TO MAKE SURE IT WASNT RUNING TO LEAN AND ALL INJECTORS ARE WITHIN 10% OF EACH OTHER.

SOUNDS LIKE THEY WERE GOING BAD ALREADY AFTER THE FIRST TUNE, SORRY BUT SOUNDS LIKE HE'S GOING TO BLAME INJECTORS AND ..SAY NOT MY FAULT. (HE DOSE HAVE A POINT..IF A PART FAILS.

ON THE OTHER HAND , I WOULD PUT IT ON HIM FOR NOT HAVING IJECTORE TESTED !!!

GOOD LUCK... (HAD A FUEL PUMP GO OUT ON MY 98 COBRA 18 LB OF BOOST ....MELTED EVEY PISTON) I know how you feel . THEY WERE DUAL STEDA PUMPS....

YOU COULD FILE SMALL CLAIMS AGAINST HIM IF HE DOSENT PAY FOR MOST OF IT !!!

GOOD LUCK !!

 

[DR281]

Lets get the whole story out, so that we can get some opinions.
When your car was tuned the first time it had an A/F of 11.7:1 all the way across the board with conservative timing, I'm pretty sure 19* because you had no cooling mods. It was tuned just like the other couple hundred 03-04 Cobras that have been tuned. It was well over a month or 2 after the tune to the engine failure. You were seen at the street races racing time after time with no cooling mods that were recomended. No cool down, race after race. You also admitted to racing the car a lot of times with no cool down. We all felt like this could have been the cause of the problem.
I recomended injectors, BAP, cooling mods, etc.. when we did the engine. Did you do any of them? Nope.
I asked you to take it easy for a couple of weeks and bring it back to the dyno. Did you take it easy? Nope. You were at the street races again pounding on it. You were seen by employees and customers.
BTW you paid 7k for all the parts you got and to install them. I didn't charge you to diagnose a problem. You didn't have the money to pay to diagnose a problem, you took the car without even paying the full bill because you didn't have enough. How were you going to pay to diagnose? You even said your self you though you raced it tom many times in a row. You thought that was the cause of the failure.
When it began to smoke we pulled it in for inspection. Pulled the plugs and did a compression test. 2 cylinders were down so I said bring it in and we will pull it apart and find out whats up. At this point, had it been something that was wrong with machine work, assembly, tuning, etc.. Something we did, it would have been taken care of.
Motor comes out and has 4 melted pistons. When we find this, I called you and said we need to have these injectors checked out because this is not right. You asked how much, when I told you, you didn't want to do it. I had to convince you that this would be this first step in finding the problem. After several conversations I managed to convince you. We had them flowed and 5 were out of spec, 4 cleaned up and they were able to get back in spec. 1 wouldn't even clean up back to factory spec.
After telling you this and again recomending 60's, you still don't want them and wanted to use your same injectors again.
I have never seen any 03-04 Cobra injectors go bad, how did 5 go bad on your car? Did someone put something in your tank? What could have gone wrong to cause 5 injectors to not flow enough?
When I talked to you the other day I told you we can figure something out together. I was going to cover most of the labor and some of the parts, just to be nice and help to get the car back on the road. I even told you if you don't think that is fair, tell me what you think is fair for both of us. I don't understand how you think it is fair for me to take full responsibility when you had 5 bad injectors that I recomended you change with the new motor any ways.
I think you went about this the wrong way, I spoke with you very nicely the other day and was willing to help you. You coming on here switching a story around and trying to bash me and our business is not a way to get help from me. You were short almost 1 k and I let you take your car on your word, I have tried to help you plenty. The car will not leave again with out the full bill being paid, just so you know.

JDaniel I would like to know who your friend is. We don't send people on there way and say deal with it. That is not what we do for anybody. We have stayed late or whatever it takes to get people's cars right, so I seriously doubt we told him to deal with it. I would love to talk to him, hear his story, and possibly help take care of his problem.

APG2369 I know a lot of different local shop owners and engine builders none of them have a standard procedure of flowing injectors on blown engines. You should also get your facts straight because Ford calls for no more the 3% varience between injectors. I would think being a pro like you are, you would not settle for a 10% varience on the injectors of a supercharged vehicle. As mentioned he didn't have the money to pay his whole bill, he didn't have the money to flow the injectors nor did he want to, nor did he want to put injectors like I recomended.

I just wanted the full real story to be out so people can decide what they think after hearing both sides.

Manny

 

[Jdaniel]

The 2002 Saleen is owned by Jake Carpenter who is currently in Iraq. Im driving the Saleen on a daily basis because I have a blown head gasket on my Cobra due to a stuck thermostat and it sat for 15 minutes idiling while overheating.

The Saleen has a Novi 2000 on it with 10 lbs of boost. The car detonates like the timing is WAY WAY to high. He told me himself that you guys couldnt figure out why it made such low numbers and detonated so bad. I took it around the block the dayafter it was tuned and it sounded horrible! The 57mm twins are going on it in a month, and the car is going to MPH in GA for that!

 

[DR281]

Is this car yellow, just trying to remember who it is?
Does it have an intercooler? Does it have a built shortblock? Did we do 2 different tunes for it? You mentioned it had Torco and methanol, I would imagine he probably has 2 tunes. If so, we need to make sure it is on the right tune. A tune with Torco and methanol would have a lot more timing then pump gas. Was he in a rush? I don't understand because we wouldn't send somebody out like that.
I don't think 10 psi with a stock longblock 2v at 404rwhp is down on power. We run very little timing in stock longblock cars so I just don't get it. We don't even like to do the methanol thing because it seems like you have to run to much timing to make it help any. We normally detune cars that are much over 400rwhp with stock long blocks just so they can last longer.
Either way if we tuned it, I would be willing to take care of it and make it right. We can datalog see how much timing it has and do whatever it takes to make it right.
Good luck with it no matter what he does.

 

[PonyFever]

If we're looking for votes of confidence here, my vote is with Manny & all the guys at HPP. I've had my '03 DGS 'vert there several times and not a single problem. Last time was for the Stage 4 port and I wanted 500 rwhp so bad I could taste it. It'll tune to 500+ but will detonate like a firecracker so I settled for their recommended 489 rwhp and will be back for the lower pully and injectors. . Sorry to hear about the original poster, but man you gotta take care of these babies unless you like blowin' things up and spending needless money on fix-it repairs instead of be-better upgrades.

 

[LT1KILLER]

Good To Hear 2 Sides To A Story

 

[STROKD]

We don't send people on there way and say deal with it. That is not what we do for anybody. We have stayed late or whatever it takes to get people's cars right, so I seriously doubt we told him to deal with it. I would love to talk to him, hear his story, and possibly help take care of his problem.

Manny

F-in A they do... I got my new car a couple weeks ago, UNTUNED witha pulley, and it was running lean and pulling timing like a bit ch. Anyway, I call Manny, he tells me what plugs to put in it and what gap, gets me on the dyno the VERY next day with 24 hour notice, after they were tuning on a car from 10:30 AM, and start on mine at damn near 7!!! They should already be home having dinner at this point, and Jeremy spends damn near 3 hours on my car getting a safe pump tune, and a Torco tune on it. They are all a hell of a bunch of guys, and I do not believe Manny would do anything to ruin his or his friend's or shop's names... Great shop and highly recommended, and as Manny said, there is always "another" side to an upset customer's story... oke:

 

[Crowley]

I have never had any issues with HPP. As a matter of fact, they have been nothing but supporting on all the work I have done with them. The work I had done, they let me test drive before paying to assure I am 100% satisfied. On tunes, everyone I talk to that has work done by them says unless you ask them to go balls to the walls, they will do a safe tune.

Your story doesn't make sense to me. HPP does care about the work they do and the customers they support.

I too would have to vote for HPP ... I'd take my car to them anytime for anything.

Crowley

 

[esqeddy]

The only thing about HPP that pisses me off....

is that they are so far away from Georgia!

There is no one, and I mean no one, that I trust more to do the work on my car than the guys at HPP. That's why my car is there right now having more mods done.

And if Manny says it, you can take it to the bank. End of Story.

 

[DKS2814V]

Giving the thread starter the benefit of the doubt, Manny and HPP are stand up guys for even chiming in and are STILL willing to help out.

I had my car tuned by them, and was not the least bit concerned if the tune was too aggressive. I'd have to give it to the guys at HPP. They are the most compassionate group of enthusiasts I've met with, and I've never spoken with a Mustang owner who wants to help get your car up to power.

Kook911, hopefully you can work things out. I think you jumped the gun in criticizing someone while they were trying to help out. I can guarantee you he has offered to help, because everyone of my buddies was extended the same offer of generosity. When the time comes for you to have to fork out the extra cash, take the engine builders recommendations to heart and consider each possibility so that you don't have to do it twice.....errrr....three times.

Manny/Ozzie/Jeremy and the rest of the crew: Keep up the good work.

 

[apg2369]

TO DR281... ACTUALLY ITS IS 3% TO 5% I was off.

The shops out in in so cal, do flow test injectors !!!! because they dont like having the second motor go boom again. you even said one injector was not in factory spec..but you still put it back in anyway... (Thats crazy). The shops I deal with would of stoped right there and said until you get new injectors..were not going to do any more work !!! or finish every thing except putting the injectors on.

Knowing of possiable bad and injectors and letting the car leave is a pro to me !!!

 

[DR281]

TO DR281... ACTUALLY ITS IS 3% TO 5% I was off.

The shops out in in so cal, do flow test injectors !!!! because they dont like having the second motor go boom again. you even said one injector was not in factory spec..but you still put it back in anyway... (Thats crazy). The shops I deal with would of stoped right there and said until you get new injectors..were not going to do any more work !!! or finish every thing except putting the injectors on.

Knowing of possiable bad and injectors and letting the car leave is a pro to me !!!

You don't know what your saying, your just trying to stir a pot. We did not find the bad injectors till after the motor went bad. I recomended changing injectors the first time but he did not want to. I didn't know they were bad, he was just getting to the point where he needed the bigger injectors anyways. We never knowing put a bad injector in, that would be pretty dumb. I mentioned that even after he knew the injectors had gone bad he still wants to use them.
Why don't you clue us in on who does standard injector flowing when doing engines? I have never heard of this being a standard procedure.
Like I said earlier, of all the 03-04 Cobra's we have worked on I had yet to see a bad set of injectors. You make a good monday quarterback though.
BTW your off again, it is no more then 3%!

 

[RAZRS EDGE]

I knew this was going to turn out to be a story of someone not taking the correct advice from a tuner buy trying to save some $$ thinking they could get by w/o it. It's your fault for not doing what Manny had suggested in the first place. I dont understand people who buy a $30K+ car and try to skip out on some basic supporting mods when they are needed.

As Dylan said, Manny/Ozzie/Jeremy and the rest of the guys @ HPP have done nothing but treated me, and everyone I know, with nothing less but the upmost respect and generosity. They have bent over backwards for me on more than one occasion in making sure I was taken care of when they did not have to. I have never experienced such service in a car shop before I went to them and it still ceases to amaze me. They treat like a fellow enthusiast and friend. My car has never left there w/o nothing short of amazing. That goes for everyone I have spoke with that comes out of that place.

Don't come on here trying to start a shit storm when you fail to leave out 90% of the story.

Glad you stepped in and told the other side of the story, Manny.

-Graycen

 

[Jdaniel]

Is this car yellow, just trying to remember who it is?
Does it have an intercooler? Does it have a built shortblock? Did we do 2 different tunes for it? You mentioned it had Torco and methanol, I would imagine he probably has 2 tunes. If so, we need to make sure it is on the right tune. A tune with Torco and methanol would have a lot more timing then pump gas. Was he in a rush? I don't understand because we wouldn't send somebody out like that.
I don't think 10 psi with a stock longblock 2v at 404rwhp is down on power. We run very little timing in stock longblock cars so I just don't get it. We don't even like to do the methanol thing because it seems like you have to run to much timing to make it help any. We normally detune cars that are much over 400rwhp with stock long blocks just so they can last longer.
Either way if we tuned it, I would be willing to take care of it and make it right. We can datalog see how much timing it has and do whatever it takes to make it right.
Good luck with it no matter what he does.

Yes, it was a yellow Saleen SC 281. No intercooler and no built bottom end. Just a Novi 2000 swap. My friend in GA had the Mongoose kit from MPH put on and he put down 450 with no intercooler or built bottom end with 10 psi and full exhaust. That was two years ago. That car runs low 11's with 5000 rpm launches on slicks and 31 spline rear and has yet to have a problem at all with the car. I will talk to Jake soon and see what he wants me to do. I doubt its going back to you all because its going to MPH for the turbo setup. The tune IMO is simply horrid. I dont know what the deal is. He tried it on both tunes and it detonated on both. Anyhoo... I will let you know what that deal is as soon as I talk to him.