How to fight this ticket?????

dsrtdukone

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I received a speeding ticket tonight @ 5:00 P.M. It was cited for travelling 68 MPH in a 55 MPH zone.
I was rounding a curve with my cruise control set at @ 55 MPH when I saw a police car situated underneath the overpass ahead. The car was stationary and facing toward me. I double checked my speed ( I sometimes set my cruise a few MPH over), and saw that I was doing no more than 56 or 57 MPH. When I looked up, I could see that an officer was standing behind his opened driver's door, waving his hands over his head. Although he was still quite some distance away, I immediately began to apply my brakes. I didn't want to "lock them up", so I came to a complete stop on the shoulder just past his cruiser. There was NO traffic in sight, so I put my truck in reverse, and backed up a few feet. I looked in the side view mirror and saw that he was approaching my vehicle. I honestly was under the impression that maybe he was having car trouble or needed assistance in some way (In hindsight, I guess he would have used his radio had he needed assistance).
When the officer (an older gentlemen, probably pushing 60) reached my window, he asked for my paperwork (driver's license, registration, proof of insurance). I produced the things he requested, and asked why I had been pulled over. He told me that he (and I quote) "had you doing 68 in a 55". Before I could respond, he told me to stay in the vehicle and that he would be right back. He walked to his cruiser and sat in the driver's seat (I'm assuming to check out my info, but I really don't know).
A few minutes later he returned to my vehicle and told me that he was going to write me a citation for 13 MPH over. I told him very politely that I thought there must be some mistake or that his radar gun was malfunctioning, because I was certain that I wasn't going nearly that fast. He politely informed me that I could contest the charge in court, and asked me to sign the ticket. I signed and was off on my merry way.
When I got home tonight, I called my brother (he's a lawyer, but pretty d much sticks to family law). He came over and immediately noted something odd on the ticket. Under "means of detection" there are boxes that can be checked for radar/laser/air/etc (I can't remember all of the choices, and my brother accidentally took the ticket home with him when he left tonight). Anyways, the only box that was "checked" was labelled "other". On a line following "other" was what appeared to be V15 E5T. It was not very clear. I thought maybe it was a code or model number of the equipment he used to track my speed.
After staring at the ticket for a while, my brother called a friend of his that is a Dayton (Ohio) LEO. He asked what the V15 E5T was. After a few minutes of conversation, his friend began laughing and figured out that it was probably VIS EST. Visual Estimation. He explained that an officer can issue a ticket if he can calculate your speed using vision and markers and conclude that you were in fact speeding. He informed us that it is VERY rare to be issued a citation of this type.
I'm assuming that my brother's friend (the LEO) was correct as I never did see a radar/laser gun. The officer never said he used one, and I didn't think to ask. My fault for making an assumption, I guess.
I've been driving for almost 25 years, and have NEVER had a speeding ticket. I've only had ONE citation in my entire life ( a following too close in Virginia Beach in 1992). I would say that qualifies my driving record as very good. I'm not a pimpley faced 17 year old trying to beat the system. I was NOT SPEEDING. So let's hear it. What should I do? I really don't want to pay a fine for an offense that I certainly did not commit. But, I'm assuming it is my word against the issuing officer, and unfortunately I believe that puts me at a disadvantage.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to present as many facts as possible. Thank you (anyone) for your input.

P.S., I don't care how cheap the ticket is, and I don't care if it costs me $1000 to beat it. I don't want to admit guilt as I am not guilty.
 

GunsUpCoyote

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If this is your word vs. the officers then you can get your brother to get you defered adjudication. (don't think I spelled that right) . Anyways all that you will get will be probation for that particular county, don't get another speeding ticket in that area for X amount of days in that county and it will be off your record.

Adam? Am I correct?
 
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dsrtdukone

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If this is your word vs. the officers then you can get your brother to get you defered adjudication. (don't think I spelled that right) . Anyways all that you will get will be probation for that particular county, don't get another speeding ticket in that area for X amount of days in that county and it will be off your record.

Adam? Am I correct?

If that is in any way admitting guilt, then I'd rather not. That may sound silly, but that's the way I feel.
 

RDJ

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Sounds to me like you may have a reasonable expectation to get it tossed or reduced. it will take some preparation on your part however ... here is what I see as your choices:

1. easiest ... pay it and get it done ... if you have a 25 year clean record it will not hurt you much if at all

2. next easiest but shortest - Plead not guilty, explain what you have here (without comment on the LEOs attitude or anything of that nature) and hope the judge, based on your record, cuts you a break. I would say it is Likely if you have been totally honest here.

3. what I would do if I wanted to take the long way about it:

1. go back to the scene and take a picture from HIS vantage point i.e. where his car was parked looking towards where you were coming from. and again from where your car was when you saw him.
2. make up a board showing the road from some distance behind your car and his so the court can get an accurate picture of the circumstances. make sure distances are accurate and the curve is shown.
3. Go to court and tell your story. ask the officer if your drawing is accurate, then ask him to point out where he was standing when he determined your speed. check your pictures and if it causes you any doubt that he actually saw you when he said he did bring it up.
4. you could also ask him how many tickets he issues in say the past year, and how many of those were based on his visual estimation. you might then ask how long it has been since he has had his "visual estimation" ability checked for accuracy.
5. then make your case .. like you made it here regarding your speed and your cruise.

Frankly I would use option 2. I understand you not wanting to be found guilty because you're not but it comes down to his word against yours and the judge being willing to cut you some slack. A lawyer could probably get you off but dayum ... is it realy worth it?
 

dsrtdukone

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Sounds to me like you may have a reasonable expectation to get it tossed or reduced. it will take some preparation on your part however ... here is what I see as your choices:

1. easiest ... pay it and get it done ... if you have a 25 year clean record it will not hurt you much if at all

2. next easiest but shortest - Plead not guilty, explain what you have here (without comment on the LEOs attitude or anything of that nature) and hope the judge, based on your record, cuts you a break. I would say it is Likely if you have been totally honest here.

3. what I would do if I wanted to take the long way about it:

1. go back to the scene and take a picture from HIS vantage point i.e. where his car was parked looking towards where you were coming from. and again from where your car was when you saw him.
2. make up a board showing the road from some distance behind your car and his so the court can get an accurate picture of the circumstances. make sure distances are accurate and the curve is shown.
3. Go to court and tell your story. ask the officer if your drawing is accurate, then ask him to point out where he was standing when he determined your speed. check your pictures and if it causes you any doubt that he actually saw you when he said he did bring it up.
4. you could also ask him how many tickets he issues in say the past year, and how many of those were based on his visual estimation. you might then ask how long it has been since he has had his "visual estimation" ability checked for accuracy.
5. then make your case .. like you made it here regarding your speed and your cruise.

Frankly I would use option 2. I understand you not wanting to be found guilty because you're not but it comes down to his word against yours and the judge being willing to cut you some slack. A lawyer could probably get you off but dayum ... is it realy worth it?


Thanks for the input. It looks like option #3 is the only one that will satisfy MY convictions. I intend to go to the scene today and take a few pictures and measurements.

I wonder if it is possible to question the issuing officer's eyesight. Would this be an invasion of his right to medical record privacy? It certainly has a bearing on his ability to ascertain my speed in the manner that he did. As I said, he was easily 60 years old. Though that's not a guarantee of substandard vision, it is a reasonable possibility.
 

ZChaos0026

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I might also attempt to contact the officer via telephone and ask him how he determined your speed. You don't want to go into court expecting him to say he visually estimated your speed, when he says he got ya with a RADAR. If he mistakenly marked Visual Estimation, then he can easily fix the ticket in court, and your planned defense won't even be brought up.

As far as asking about his eyesight, you are going to have to prove his eyesight is bad, and i dont know how you would be able to do that as you cannot require him to take an eye exam. If he's 60 (keep in mind that law enforcement is a stressful career and it tends to age most of us very quickly) then he should be aware of his eye sight, and if it's an issue, he should consider moving out of the field, as having poor eye sight is a huge safety issue for him.
 

dsrtdukone

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You don't want to go into court expecting him to say he visually estimated your speed, when he says he got ya with a RADAR. If he mistakenly marked Visual Estimation, then he can easily fix the ticket in court, and your planned defense won't even be brought up.

He never said or implied that he clocked me with radar. He only said "I had you doing (or going) 68 in a 55". Also, there was no mistake in choosing "visual estimation" as he had to write this into a blank spot which followed a "check box" with the word "other". If his "means of detection" choice was a mistake, I would think he would have caught that when he physically had to write something that wasn't offered as a selectable option. You aren't suggesting that he would change his story are you?
 

tama

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He's just implying that minor mistakes can be amended/change in court.

Doesn't sound like he made a mistake in that area though.
 

carrrnuttt

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Subscribing.

I would really like to hear the outcome of this one. Although it seems a minor issue, the matter of principle involved is very involved, and I'd feel exactly as you do, if it were me in this situation.
 

FordSVTFan

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I would certainly fight it. You should have your brother check the state statute, I bet there is a method he must use for determining your speed. Additionally, he wrote a specific speed, that means he must be able to verify your exact speed, since he didnt estimate it or right a general violation for excessive speed. Your brother should also find case law as I would bet there is case law to back you up.

Edit: I did a brief search and found this case law

Ohio courts are split on whether a trained officer's estimation of speed, with nothing more (e.g., laser or radar), is sufficient to support a prima facie speeding conviction.’ State v. Kincaid, 124 Ohio Misc.2d 92, 95, 796 N.E.2d 89, 2003-Ohio-4632

In the Second, Third, and Eighth Districts, as well as Morrow County Municipal Court in the Fifth District, the opinion of the officer that the defendant was speeding, based upon a visual estimation, without more, is insufficient to sustain a conviction by proof beyond a reasonable doubt. (Internal citations omitted).

In the First, Fourth, Ninth, Tenth and Eleventh Districts have held that an officer's estimation of speed is sufficient to sustain a speeding conviction in a prima facie case.” City of Cleveland v. Wilson, Cuyahoga App. No. 87047, 2006-Ohio-1947 (Internal citations omitted).

I hope your ticket was issued in the Second, Third, Eighth Districts, or the Morrow County Municipal Court in the Fifth District.

Good Luck.
 

PowerWheels

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Seriously, just be honest and polite telling the whole story and mention your long standing clean record. When that doesn't work pay the damn ticket and get on with your life.
 

RDJ

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Rereading the OP I would also suggest you ask the officer HOW he established your speed at 68mph. ask him which markers he used. see how they line up with your pictures.
 

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