How much HP is too much?

nhs156

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OK, let me qualify the question:

How much HP (and torque for that matter) is "too much" for a car that could be used as a daily driver (i.e. not the track or strip)? And by "too much", I mean so much that the driver is likely to get him/herself into trouble due to the car's inability to handle said power well - due to lack of electronic aids capable of taking advantage of the power, the limits of current tire compound and suspension/frame technology?

OK, that's a big qualifier, but hopefully you get the gist. I believe the GT500 is probably at the upper limit. There is no way an average driver can actually take advantage of all that power without getting into serious trouble. And the car is so dang fast that it invites trouble, and doesn't feel particularly composed when not pointed straight down the road (relative to other high performance cars). Don't get me wrong, I love it. But I think it's at the limit. Perhaps the limit could be pushed with better suspension and more grip (e.g. AWD), but with the sheer HP/torque on tap, I still think it's close to maxed out.

700hp - with today's technological limitations - is probably about as much as a manufacturer can put out "stock" without creating an unusable monster. Yes, I realize weight etc. matters - but for a typical sports (or sporty luxury) car weighing let's say 3-4,000 lbs, I think that's pretty close to the max.

Am pretty sure plenty of European brands could easily churn out 700, 800 or even 900 hp in their high end cars (think Ferrari, Lamborghini, Merc AMG, BMW M, Porsche etc.), but I think they're purposefully holding back. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if we see HP numbers dialed back a but over time and greater focus placed on weight, handling and even - gulp - fuel consumption.

Thoughts?
 
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Myfast70

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My Fox body at full boost should be right at 1000+ hp. I drive it on the street all the time. Keep the boost to 13psi (about 700+ fwhp) and it drives just fine. If I drive it like an idiot then the car will get stupid. If you're aware and conscious of its capabilities you'll be ok. Most people drive over their heads and then get into trouble. Just my opinion though
 

Ky GT500

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It's not all the cars fault, a lot goes back to the driver. Yes, I know I have a lot of power under my right foot and I respect that. If I didn't, it will come back and bite me. If I wreck the car, it was probably my fault due to driving with my head up my butt, not the fact that it is a high HP car, I knew that when I bought it.

This is sounding like the McDonalds coffee suit,,,,I dumped my coffee in my own lap because I wasn't paying attention and it was hot,,,,Hello,,,coffee is usually hot. Sooooooo,,,I wrecked my Shelby because my head was located in my butt while driving my high HP car that I bought knowing it was high HP. I think I'll sue Ford because they built it!!!!

If the power is to much, don't buy the car. Most of us bought it knowing what we were getting into with the purchase of it.

Drive your car, Enjoy your car, Respect your car.
 

13COBRA

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I've seen more idiot drivers in 185hp Honda than in higher horsepower muscle cars.

When trying to find out how much power is too much, it's a direct correlation between the driver's skill, experience and the power his vehicle produces. Higher skill/experience leads to being able to control higher powered cars, and vice versa.
 

ObieFox

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There was a great article back in the early 2000's in Muscle Mustang magazine where they asked the "experts" how much HP was too much for the street, given street tires etc...

At the time, most all of them agreed that 400 RWHP was the upper limit.

Funny how times have changed.


I do agree that the 2013 GT500 is near the upper limit of what is useable on the street with street tires. I'm reminded of that each day when I roll into the throttle on the on ramp and snap the rear end loose at about 100 mph in 3rd gear.....
 

gkviper192

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It's based on the driver. Certain drivers can't handle the stock 600rwhp from the factory, while others are running around making 750 on street tires with no issues. Obviously there are traction issues, but a driver who knows what they are doing can control the car.
 

BCPD199

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I've seen more idiot drivers in 185hp Honda than in higher horsepower muscle cars.

When trying to find out how much power is too much, it's a direct correlation between the driver's skill, experience and the power his vehicle produces. Higher skill/experience leads to being able to control higher powered cars, and vice versa.

What he said!
 

nhs156

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It's not all the cars fault, a lot goes back to the driver. Yes, I know I have a lot of power under my right foot and I respect that. If I didn't, it will come back and bite me. If I wreck the car, it was probably my fault due to driving with my head up my butt, not the fact that it is a high HP car, I knew that when I bought it.

This is sounding like the McDonalds coffee suit,,,,I dumped my coffee in my own lap because I wasn't paying attention and it was hot,,,,Hello,,,coffee is usually hot. Sooooooo,,,I wrecked my Shelby because my head was located in my butt while driving my high HP car that I bought knowing it was high HP. I think I'll sue Ford because they built it!!!!

If the power is to much, don't buy the car. Most of us bought it knowing what we were getting into with the purchase of it.

Drive your car, Enjoy your car, Respect your car.

You COMPLETELY missed the point of the thread and intent of the question. Take a step back, breathe deeply and perhaps address the question w/o focusing on the GT500.

The "it's all about the driver" argument is non-sensical. If Honda built a Civic with 100,000 HP I think we'd all agree that's too much in a daily driver given limitations of current technology.

I think it was the guys on Top Gear who suggested, several years ago, that some of AMG's Black Line cars with 600+ HP were at the limits of safe, enjoyable, usable power. That's the conversation I was trying to have.
 

shelbysvt

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I understand your question OP. I would say this the limit really depends on how the car handles that power. For the shelby I think it is already at it's limit unless you add griggs suspension.

But if for say you want to use the ferrari f12 which is the DD ferrari with over 700 well I would say 750 or whatever it has, is the ferraris limit.

It all really depends on how the car handles the power. If it can handle the power then it is never enough. If I had the means I'd go drive an Agera R every day. I would decide this more on how fast the car is rather than HP. As in a GTR is faster on the street than the shelby with 100 less HP. But I think anything faster than a GTR is really and just truly not needed.
 

BCPD199

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I understand your question OP. I would say this the limit really depends on how the car handles that power. For the shelby I think it is already at it's limit.

It all really depends on how the car handles the power. If it can handle the power then it is never enough. If I had the means I'd go drive an Agera R every day. I would decide this more on how fast the car is rather than HP. As in a GTR is faster on the street than the shelby with 100 less HP. But I think anything faster than a GTR is really and just truly not needed.

Very well stated.
 

Cam

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Like shelbysvt said, it is more than the just the power level, or the driver's ability, it is also about how well the entire car is prepared. Is it a bracket car or track prepped? It is easy to make power these days, it takes more talent and time to bring the entire vehicle up to the level capable of handling the power.
 

mullens

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Simple answer... this car stock is right at the limit. Due to the tires, it's downright scary at times and I've drove all manner of supercars over the years. In my case, any more power would be useless.
 

98 Saleen Cobra

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640rwhp here with no electronic aids at all.. Works just fine for me with a R888 tire... Going for more on E85 in a couple months.. Learn how to drive, and go to some driving classes/schools.. you'll learn a lot on how to save a car.
 

Ky GT500

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You COMPLETELY missed the point of the thread and intent of the question. Take a step back, breathe deeply and perhaps address the question w/o focusing on the GT500.

The "it's all about the driver" argument is non-sensical. If Honda built a Civic with 100,000 HP I think we'd all agree that's too much in a daily driver given limitations of current technology.

I think it was the guys on Top Gear who suggested, several years ago, that some of AMG's Black Line cars with 600+ HP were at the limits of safe, enjoyable, usable power. That's the conversation I was trying to have.

No ruffle intended, get the point completely. Is there a limit on usable power, sure,, are we there yet, probably. Other than race/drag, you only need enough HP to maintain a legal speed limit on the road. I agree, I did focus on GT500. Any of the high HP cars falls in this catagory. The design of the car around the HP plays a part in it as well.

If this is not your gist of original thread, I apologize. This is my take on what I read. :read:
 
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nhs156

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No ruffle intended, get the point completely. Is there a limit on usable power, sure,, are we there yet, probably. Other than race/drag, you only need enough HP to maintain a legal speed limit on the road. I agree, I did focus on GT500. Any of the high HP cars falls in this catagory. The design of the car around the HP plays a part in it as well.

If this is not your gist of original thread, I apologize. This is my take on what I read. :read:

Thank you - appreciate the perspective.
 

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