How effective is a panhard bar

[Quadcammer]

My rear suspension consists of a 98 cobra solid rear, global west lower control arms, h&r SS springs, and koni single adjustables

The car handles pretty well and grip from the rear is quite good. The only problem is the slight sideways skip over bumps.

Do you think that the MM panhard bar would help to reduce this skip, and better locate the rear?

I have no interest in going back to IRS so don't even suggest it.


So, for those with the panhard bar, are you happy with its effects? noticeable?

Thanks

 

[MFE]

I used to have a rear setup almost exactly like yours, and i made it hustle pretty good, but it was hard work. Then I went to a panhard bar, then added a torque arm. I never took it on the track with just the panhard bar but I could tell just from street driving the rear end was a lot less nervous, especially at the limits. You're asking a lot of those upper control arm bushings and when they slam to the limits of their compliance, you get a spike in wheel rate that unsettles the rear. All that goes away with a panhard bar or watts link.

 

[wheelhopper]

I personally do not have a panhard bar in any of my Mustangs. I have spoken with other drivers that have and do not have a the PHB. Some prefer the feel and some don't. One driver in particular that I spoke with, who got around the track quicker than me, drove a CMC Mustang. They can not use a PHB and he told me he actually got faster lap times with out it. I guess it depends on your driving style. If I was you I would install it and see how you liked the feel of it. You can always take it out.

 

[TXPD]

I am told that a watts link is better than a panhard bar. I am told a panhard bar is better than no bar.

Like almost everything in performance driving, your equipment and how you use it is a factor in what equipment will work for you.

If you are street driving on street tires, your definition of "the edge" is totally different than a reduced weight, race car on racing tires on a race track.

 

[gcassidy]

Oliver, I have a MM panhard bar without a torque arm. It helped a little with the rear end being a bit more solid, but I am waiting until I have the funds for the torque arm (which also means new exhaust -$$$) to really reap the benefits from it.

 

[Quadcammer]

I don't think MM makes a torque arm that can handle my power level unfortunately, because I know how awesome they are

 

[brkntrxn]

If it helps anyone's suggestions, Oliver's car is a full weight vert with about 700hp.

 

[David Hester]

On my A/Sedan car, I have a modified Griggs and panhard setup- had to beef up both.

Problem with any 4 link Mustang set up is the top 2 arms pull the rear axle in different directions under bounce.
I noticed it when Mustangs ran SSGT back in the late 80's. You could see the wheel move around in the wheel arch- hard right hander, the wheel would move back in the wheel arch.
Adding a torque arm locates the axle and pinion angle, panhard bar keeps the relative to the frame-except for the small amount due to arc of the bar (less than the 4 link angled uppers. New 05+ Mustang system is WORLDS better.
Watts centers all the time, but weighs more and has double the parts- heim joints, rods, etc.
I wouldn't use with standard 4 link, as it would just bind up things worse.

 

[Quadcammer]

Interesting info Dave (and thanks for clarifying that Kevin).

Dave, did you mean the watts link shouldn't be used with the 4 link, or the panhard bar?

 

[gcassidy]

According to Mark at Performance Autosports, they stopped selling the standard Griggs TA because, while it was good for under 400 hp, folks would end up upping their game and exceeding it's limits. All they install now is the Heavy Duty TA, but I never asked what it was good to. Might be worth looking into.

 

[Quadcammer]

My car puts down about 570rwtq with 4.30 gears

they make a torque arm for that power level?

 

[MFE]

Interesting info Dave (and thanks for clarifying that Kevin).

Dave, did you mean the watts link shouldn't be used with the 4 link, or the panhard bar?

Watts links and panhard bars are both ways of laterally locating the axle. You can't use them together. But because they each create a roll center that's different than what the UCA's try to define, they will cause a certain level of "bind" when used in conjunction with UCA's. However, the linearity they provide is well worth the tradeoff. Either one will keep the UCA's from smacking into no-compliance at the end of their travel, which is a large reason why the factory setup is so snap-happy in the first place. Bottom line is, while a watts or a panhard with UCA's isn't ideal, it's pretty universally considered to be much nicer to drive at the limit than the stock-style 4-link without a panhard or watts.

 

[Greensix]

I am using the MM PHB without the T/A currently and I love it. I hated the feeling of the rear end floating around and giving a funny rear steer feeling. The PHB makes the rear end feel a whole lot more stable and controllable. I was following behind a CMC car last fall in Nashville and it was very surprising on how far side to side the rear end would move under the car under hard cornering.

 

[Quadcammer]

good info guys. Seems like this is a good next mod.

thanks.

 

[David Hester]

I've heard of some guys using old worn out "doughnuts" for their uppers to let it move around more, if they were using a panhard bar. Others told me it bound worse. You have back and forth AND side to side with the stock "Fox Body" set up.

did someone say dough nuts! uuuMMMMMMmmm

 

[gcassidy]

I've heard of some guys using old worn out "doughnuts" for their uppers to let it move around more, if they were using a panhard bar.

That's what I did, Dave. Replaced my Kenny Brown uppers with the oldest Ford uppers we had laying around. It works sorta OK. :shrug:
Someday I'll finish it.

 

[Gonz]

I currently have the Maximum Motorsports panhard bar and LCAs. Prior to this I had Ford/Global West LCAs with no PHB. I switched after my first track day with the old set up.

I like the panhard bar quite a bit, for the increase in feel and predictability. This gives me much more confidence, and allows me to carry more speed without having to worry about what the back end is going to do. This is really nice in fast corners, like turn 4 at Summit Point.

On the down side, it might be a little more tail happy around slower turns. However, it is much easier to control the tail out slides than without the PHB.

Overall, I would recommend it, without hesitation.

If you go this route, check with MM to make sure the bushings in the Global West arms are compatible with the panhard bar set up.

G

 

[MFE]

If you go this route, check with MM to make sure the bushings in the Global West arms are compatible with the panhard bar set up.

They aren't. The whole point of the GW bushing design was to limit lateral deflection at the axle. But the PHB causes lateral deflection, albeit in a perfectly controlled arc. That arc conflicts with the restriction imparted by the GW bushings.