Help me decide: MPSS or Toyo R888

[SVTKen]

I apologize in advance for starting yet another tire discussion and asking so many questions, but everyone has different priorities when it comes to tires, so it's a difficult decision for me and I want to make the right choice. For the past several days, I've been researching the best tires to put on my 2013 Shelby GT500. It's 100% stock and has the original performance package SVT wheels. I daily drive the car and take it to the drag strip a few times every year. In my usual OCD manner, I've spent hours on this forum and on google searching for tire information and comparisons. I just want to make sure I make the right choice for my intended use.

After all of my research, I think I have narrowed my choice down to the Toyo R888 or the Michelin Pilot Super Sport (MPSS). If you like another tire better than the ones I'm considering, I'm open to your advice about them as well. Could you guys please give me your thoughts on which you prefer and why? Which tire will be better for the drag strip? Which tire will wear better? I will be driving my car in the rain, so I want it to be safe in rainy conditions. I will put winter tires on my car in the colder weather, so no worries about that, but I do want the tire to hook good on the street in cool conditions, say around 50 degrees (something the stock tires were not capable of). We get lots of cool evenings and mornings in Maryland. Basically what I'm looking for is a good summer performance tire that will give me respectable grip on the street in most conditions and that I won't be embarassed to run my Shelby with at the strip.

I also want to know what rear tire size you guys recommend for the stock wheels. I've seen many posts on this forum and others that show people with 295/35 MPSS on the stock wheels (rear), and that seems to be the most popular based on what I've seen. I'm more interested in performance than looks, and I want the size that will give me the best performance, especially at the strip. Is the the 295/35 MPSS going to give me the best performance with minimal sidewall bulge? Do you recommend the Toyo R888s in the same 295/35 size, or would a different size be better for this brand? Does anyone have experience drag racing their Shelby on either of these tires? The best I was able to do with the crappy Goodyear tires was a 1.9 60 ft and 11.9 ET. Will I be able to do better than that with MPSS or R888?

Please help. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[planb76]

I am surfing and searching for a lot of the same info. I ran across one thread where guys were airing down the stock tires to get better grip at the drag strip until the made decisions, order came in etc. I am Louisiana so i went ahead and got the MPSS 105y. Best of luck and i will probably follow this one for a set of winter tires.

 

[paluka21]

Read through this thread, particularly the last few pages. Might make you reconsider the MPSS tires.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1046551-Wobble-under-hard-acceleration

Not only that but I don't see the MPSS tires helping a whole lot at the drag strip over the Goodyears. JMO.

 

[Lethalchem]

Not only that but I don't see the MPSS tires helping a whole lot at the drag strip over the Goodyears. JMO.

I would agree. You're going to get longevity and acceptable cold weather/rain performance out of something like the MPSS because it's a street tire. Anything that has significantly improved traction is going to require you to sacrifice one (or more) of your criteria. The Toyo is an "R compound" tire, which you need to take into consideration when you compare it with a street tire.

 

[09Troublemaker]

I apologize in advance for starting yet another tire discussion and asking so many questions, but everyone has different priorities when it comes to tires, so it's a difficult decision for me and I want to make the right choice. For the past several days, I've been researching the best tires to put on my 2013 Shelby GT500. It's 100% stock and has the original performance package SVT wheels. I daily drive the car and take it to the drag strip a few times every year. In my usual OCD manner, I've spent hours on this forum and on google searching for tire information and comparisons. I just want to make sure I make the right choice for my intended use.

After all of my research, I think I have narrowed my choice down to the Toyo R888 or the Michelin Pilot Super Sport (MPSS). If you like another tire better than the ones I'm considering, I'm open to your advice about them as well. Could you guys please give me your thoughts on which you prefer and why? Which tire will be better for the drag strip? Which tire will wear better? I will be driving my car in the rain, so I want it to be safe in rainy conditions. I will put winter tires on my car in the colder weather, so no worries about that, but I do want the tire to hook good on the street in cool conditions, say around 50 degrees (something the stock tires were not capable of). We get lots of cool evenings and mornings in Maryland. Basically what I'm looking for is a good summer performance tire that will give me respectable grip on the street in most conditions and that I won't be embarassed to run my Shelby with at the strip.

I also want to know what rear tire size you guys recommend for the stock wheels. I've seen many posts on this forum and others that show people with 295/35 MPSS on the stock wheels (rear), and that seems to be the most popular based on what I've seen. I'm more interested in performance than looks, and I want the size that will give me the best performance, especially at the strip. Is the the 295/35 MPSS going to give me the best performance with minimal sidewall bulge? Do you recommend the Toyo R888s in the same 295/35 size, or would a different size be better for this brand? Does anyone have experience drag racing their Shelby on either of these tires? The best I was able to do with the crappy Goodyear tires was a 1.9 60 ft and 11.9 ET. Will I be able to do better than that with MPSS or R888?

Please help. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I've run both of these, MPSS in the 295/105Y which was a lot better of a tire than the GY's. I'm now running the R888's which grab better than the MPSS but will wear much faster, i.e. 6-8k if you like to play a lot. Keep in mind both of these will not perform as good as a D/R at the strip. However, the R888's do great in the corners and work real well in the rain (if you're not driving like an idiot). For these two choices I 'd go with the 285/35 R888 which will perform better than the MPSS at the track when dropping PSI.

 

[Speedboosted]

I'd get the R888. If you don't mind changing them more often then it's one of the best tires to run IMO. You can literally do everything performance related with them, and they're solid in the rain. A buddy near me has them on the front of his 824 whp Integra. They do well in the rain, well as good as any tire could given his situation

 

[Silver_Bullet]

WHat sizes do you plan to run? r888's are very limited in size offerings

 

[SVTKen]

Thanks for all the information and advice guys.

I've ruled out the MPSS tires because of all the wobble issues reported in the thread Paluka21 suggested I read in post #3 (thanks for the link Paluka!). There are far too many people having the wobble issue with them for me to even consider them at this point. I was planning to spend a few minutes checking to see what advice I had in here and go to sleep, but instead I read through that entire discussion on MPSS wobble, and now it's nearly 2 AM LOL I even watched the video of the wobble from inside the car, and it looks very unsettling to say the least.

Since I've ruled out the MPSS tires, that leaves the Toyo R888s. Some people have complained about "extreme" road noise from the Toyo R888s? Is the noise bad enough to rule them out for daily driving? I like the idea that I can play around in the twisties with the Toyos and that they will be acceptable for driving occasionally in the rain. BTW, I'm not considering DRs because I don't want to compromise handling in the twisties or rain. I'd be a little afraid to drive in the rain with DRs.

09Troublemaker suggested I go with the 285/35 size for the Toyo R888. Since that's the stock tire size, it should be safe. Does anyone know if the Toyo R888s are similar to the stock GYs in terms of tire bulge? Would there be any performance problem or advantages to going with a slightly wider R888 tire on the stock rear rims? I don't want to compromise grip or performance and don't want any rubbing issues.

Anyone with personal experience with the Toyo R888s please give me your driving impressions and opinions.

It's crazy how something that seems so simple like tires can be such a complex decision for me. What's particularly troubling is that I read numerous posts on other forums with nothing but praise for the MPSS tires. It wasn't until this morning that I found out about the wobble issue.

 

[Lethalchem]

ONly issue with the R888's is they don't make EXACT replacement sizes for the front.

 

[little-dw]

ONly issue with the R888's is they don't make EXACT replacement sizes for the front.

with the front size being 265/30ZR/19 from toyo would that make the tire have a smaller sidewall/width or both? make it look 'low profile'? compared to our stock 265/35ZR/19 fronts

 

[Ablaze]

Stock size up front is 265/40/19.

 

[nhs156]

I have experienced the wobble twice with my MPSS BUT I just put it down to stupidity on my part. Once was under hard acceleration on perhaps a 55 degree day (chilly, and with slightly moist road surface) and once was on a 70F+ day on the freeway under hard acceleration in second gear. That one scared the crap out of me as the car was literally snapping around 20 degrees left around right 4-5 times before it settled down (as I eased off the gas pedal). Again, though, I think it was me pushing it too hard and perhaps I hit a minor road imperfection. I would imagine a softer compound tire would do better. I don't drive like that any more!

My next tire will very likely be the R888. It'll wear a LOT faster than the MPSS (I have 17K miles on the MPSS and still lots of tread left, which is astounding), but I do want more stickiness. My biggest gripe with the MPSS is that grip deteriorates noticeably with wear. They were incredible for the first 5000 miles, but less so now (though still much, much stickier than the stock GYs which were absolute crap). But yes, my next will likely be an R888. I want to the car to be as planted as possible, am not worried about wear, and want the tire to be well-behaved in the dry and wet. I considered the NT555R and NT05Rs for the rear, but am concerned about wet performance particularly with the NT05Rs.

If price is an issue, then the MPSS works out a helluva lot cheaper in terms of $s per mile, simply by virtue of the far superior wear. By that metric the R888 is at least twice as expensive. Some would say (those getting just 6K miles from a set) that this tire is 3X more expensive than the MPSS. If money is no object (in this regard) I think the R888 is the winner from all accounts.

 

[Ablaze]

I, like a handful of people have put a lot of thought (perhaps too much) into tire selection. For me it's mostly because I feel I'm the odd man out. If work allowed I would easily put 500 miles a week on my car. I take it across the country whenever possible but here in Maryland the temperatures can be all over the place. Cold, humid, scorching, then cool all in the same week which leaves me vulnerable as far as tires are concerned.

I was dead set on the MPSS 275/295s until the wobble issue. Then I decided to look toward 275 MPSS and 305 555Rs. Did some research and found the 555Rs are great in the rain for what I'm doing, cruising. Here is just a video I ran into.

[video=youtube;YMV4iLKWtXQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMV4iLKWtXQ[/video]

So I'm not particularly concerned about the performance of the 555Rs. Shelby America shared with me while we discussed some other parts that they were knocking off 10s timeslips with the 555Rs. That's more than enough for me.

What is still holding me back? The wear and Maryland's 4 season weather. I would probably end up buying tires twice a year if I ran the 555Rs. I don't think they would be too hot of an item for road tripping and I could be dead wrong. When my girl and I go out adventuring we usually leave early morning to avoid traffic and the temperatures even in the spring can easily be 40 degrees or less out which means summer tires don't do me any good for the first 3-4 hours versus, say.. AS/3s.

If I was in Texas or Nevada honestly this wouldn't even be a discussion. I would run NT555Rs if I was daily driving and NT05Rs if I was taking it out only on days of pure leisure with 275 MPSS running up front. I would love to run those tires myself.

I'll probably end up with AS/3s all around, stock sizes to my dismay and buy a set of rears with NT555Rs to run in the summer only. I don't want to go through that hassle but I absolutely despise just rolling into the throttle with the GYs and having the backend kick out at 70 degrees like they did to me last year. It's sort of a love/hate relationship because when it was 101 degrees outside and I mashed the throttle in 2nd they just hooked and took off. I'm just taking my time with mods because the car is damn near perfect stock I just need it a little louder, little more whine, and a lot more grip.. if I could do that without adding any power or any suspension squeaks I really wouldn't care how much it cost.

 

[Lethalchem]

with the front size being 265/30ZR/19 from toyo would that make the tire have a smaller sidewall/width or both? make it look 'low profile'? compared to our stock 265/35ZR/19 fronts

This is the difference between our 265/40/19 and the Toyo 265/30/19

-----------------------------265/40-19----------265/30-19----------Difference

Diameter inches (mm)----27.35 (694.6)----25.26 (641.6)______-2.09 (-53) -7.6%
Width inches (mm)--------10.43 (265)------10.43 (265)________0 (0) 0%
Circum. inches (mm)------85.91 (2182.15)-79.36 (2015.65)____-6.56 (-166.5) -7.6%
Sidewall inches (mm)-----4.17 (106)--------3.13 (79.5)________-1.04 (-26.5) -25%

 

[paluka21]

I, like a handful of people have put a lot of thought (perhaps too much) into tire selection. For me it's mostly because I feel I'm the odd man out. If work allowed I would easily put 500 miles a week on my car. I take it across the country whenever possible but here in Maryland the temperatures can be all over the place. Cold, humid, scorching, then cool all in the same week which leaves me vulnerable as far as tires are concerned.

I was dead set on the MPSS 275/295s until the wobble issue. Then I decided to look toward 275 MPSS and 305 555Rs. Did some research and found the 555Rs are great in the rain for what I'm doing, cruising. Here is just a video I ran into.

[video=youtube;YMV4iLKWtXQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMV4iLKWtXQ[/video]

So I'm not particularly concerned about the performance of the 555Rs. Shelby America shared with me while we discussed some other parts that they were knocking off 10s timeslips with the 555Rs. That's more than enough for me.

What is still holding me back? The wear and Maryland's 4 season weather. I would probably end up buying tires twice a year if I ran the 555Rs. I don't think they would be too hot of an item for road tripping and I could be dead wrong. When my girl and I go out adventuring we usually leave early morning to avoid traffic and the temperatures even in the spring can easily be 40 degrees or less out which means summer tires don't do me any good for the first 3-4 hours versus, say.. AS/3s.

If I was in Texas or Nevada honestly this wouldn't even be a discussion. I would run NT555Rs if I was daily driving and NT05Rs if I was taking it out only on days of pure leisure with 275 MPSS running up front. I would love to run those tires myself.

I'll probably end up with AS/3s all around, stock sizes to my dismay and buy a set of rears with NT555Rs to run in the summer only. I don't want to go through that hassle but I absolutely despise just rolling into the throttle with the GYs and having the backend kick out at 70 degrees like they did to me last year. It's sort of a love/hate relationship because when it was 101 degrees outside and I mashed the throttle in 2nd they just hooked and took off. I'm just taking my time with mods because the car is damn near perfect stock I just need it a little louder, little more whine, and a lot more grip.. if I could do that without adding any power or any suspension squeaks I really wouldn't care how much it cost.

In all honesty, I believe the 555R could handle your requirements fine, although as mentioned they will wear a bit quicker than a normal radial tire. I ran a 555R in the past and got caught in the rain when they were 70% +/- worn, and they did ok so as long as I didn't go over 65mph, although they would hydroplane some if I hit standing water on the road. However, when they're new or still have plenty of tread left, I wouldn't hesitate using them for road trips or even in the rain. IIRC, I got about 10K miles from my NT555R's in the past and that included a few 1/4 mile passes.

 

[Ablaze]

Can I get away with them right now with the temperatures still being cool in the morning? My local tire shop is offering $650 for them, installed, and I'm about to take it if I can get enough time from work to actually hit the road.

 

[jonw605]

I have never ran the r888. But, if I were going to buy a tire (after reading and reading) this would be it.
I know it's expensive, so was your (and my) car...
I had the 555R on my car when I bought it, I was fairly impressed to be honest, but I think the R888 is still a better choice.
Neither of these tires are great on a drag track. A true drag tire must be used IMO, period. IF you really want to see what your car will do in the 1/4, you MUST have a designated drag tire.
If you can't or refuse to do that, my opinion is the R888.

 

[SteveWK]

I want to point out that the Toyo R888 comes in both 265/30-19 and 265/35-19 sizes. Obviously the 265/35/19 is the closest match to our stock tires.



The two numbers above that are worth noting are the ride height and sidewall height. The car will sit 0.502 inches lower and the decreased sidewall height will probably affect the ride but may improve turn in and lateral grip.

My next set of tires is most likely going to be the R888s. I currently have the MPSSs 275/295 front/rear combination. While they are much better than the GYs, the rears seem to have lost some traction after an estimated 4k miles. Plus my car is not stock with the 13-6 kit, 10% ATI balancer, and long tubes. It doesn't get floored very often just because of traction limitations. I realize the R888s are a competition compound tire, but I'm just not getting what I want out of the MPSSs open tracking the car. Here's what I did to one of them at a track with a lot of hard left turns. Obviously the suspension needed more camber but I also think the MPSS's sidewall was rolling over to some degree.

This was after about 6 sessions on the track ( Hallett Raceway ) with -1.4 degrees of camber and approximately 34 psi.



So, for me I think the R888s are a good compromise.

 

[Lethalchem]

So, for me I think the R888s are a good compromise.

I'd be all over this tire if it was sized correctly. I don't think I want to lose another 1/2" off the nose of the car though. Are you going to put them on your stock wheels?

 

[SteveWK]

Fixed the table above.

I'll be using the stock wheels. I can raise the front .5" pretty easily because the strut spring perches are adjustable. Ideally I'd have a nice diesel truck with a trailer so I could have an extra set of rims with Hoosier R6's, but that takes more money than I have right now. My only concern with R888s is are they going to act like the GYs in 50 degree weather?

BTW, I'm really glad you caught that tire wear before I headed back on track. I flat could have been really bad on track.