Help Curing oversteer.

[gs462]

My car is away for winter, Id like some suggestions on how to get rid of the oversteer feeling, It seems like the rear of the car darts around or skitters when cornering hard, any small imperfection in the pavement sends the rear of the car sliding sideways. What can be done to more solidly plant the rear during cornering.

Thanks for any help in advance,

 

[Jedisalami]

slow down

 

[corruptor]

You're probably feeling the rear axle shifting over bumps rather than oversteer (unless youre absolutely nailing it on the street). Stiffer panhard rod bushings, lower rode height, and chassis braces will help with the rear axle feeling.

 

[jymboslice]

I'm guessing you have stock suspension now?

Lowering it, sway bars, lrca's, panhard bar and an upper control arm will help.

 

[turka]

You're probably feeling the rear axle shifting over bumps rather than oversteer (unless youre absolutely nailing it on the street). Stiffer panhard rod bushings, lower rode height, and chassis braces will help with the rear axle feeling.

^This

 

[Nick Nasty]

Become a drifter, then you won't worry about overseer...

 

[Lethal302]

I did shocks/struts, springs, panhard bar, strut mounts, camber bolts, LCA's, relocation brackets etc.. but I still get that rear end drifting feeling every now and then when I'm turning and hit a bump in the road. This is probably due to the fact that my relocation brackets for my LCAs are set at the lowest setting (best for straight line). My suggestion would be to start with LCAs and possibly relocation brackets. All of the other stuff really really helped with the wobbly feeling on turns and the nose-diving stops. Also killed the wheel hop and launch traction is 10x better

 

[seank]

As others have said you are not experiencing oversteer, just the attributes of a solid rear axle over uneven pavement. These cars and almost every car for that matter comes from the factory biased towards understeer. This makes the lawyers happy as it is less dangerous for inexperienced drivers with little to no actual car control skills.

Get yourself to an HPDE event and then you will actually be able to feel the car in an oversteer situation in a safe environment.

 

[Fun4me]

Will adjustable swaybars help compensate for 305 rubber on the rear? I'm assuming that the wide sticky rear tires will cause more understeer. Thanks

 

[seank]

Absolutely

 

[Fun4me]

Absolutely

Stano 3 way? front and rear

 

[seank]

If I were to do it all over again that's the route I'd go over the Eibachs. I have the Eibach adjustable front non-adj rear and Strano adjustable front endlinks. My car is pretty damn neutral now.

 

[Fun4me]

If I were to do it all over again that's the route I'd go over the Eibachs. I have the Eibach adjustable front non-adj rear and Strano adjustable front endlinks. My car is pretty damn neutral now.

Are the endlinks neccesary? What do they do? This is for a dd, if that makes a differance.

 

[seank]

No they are not necessary at all you can reuse the factory ones. They enable you to fine tune the action of the sway bar and at the same time eliminate the weak factory ones. If you are never taking it to a road course don't spend the money.

 

[Fun4me]

No they are not necessary at all you can reuse the factory ones. They enable you to fine tune the action of the sway bar and at the same time eliminate the weak factory ones. If you are never taking it to a road course don't spend the money.

How do you know what settings to set the sways on? trial and error

 

[corruptor]

I did shocks/struts, springs, panhard bar, strut mounts, camber bolts, LCA's, relocation brackets etc.. but I still get that rear end drifting feeling every now and then when I'm turning and hit a bump in the road. This is probably due to the fact that my relocation brackets for my LCAs are set at the lowest setting (best for straight line). My suggestion would be to start with LCAs and possibly relocation brackets. All of the other stuff really really helped with the wobbly feeling on turns and the nose-diving stops. Also killed the wheel hop and launch traction is 10x better

I had FRPP P Springs, Koni Yellows, BMR Panhard, BMR Panhard Support and Steeda LCAs and still noticed very minimal rear axle shifting over mid-corner bumps. Recently installed the Steeda torque box brace and haven't noticed any rear axle squirrelyness over the past 50 miles. May just be placebo effect, but car also feels much smoother and the rear suspension seems to articulate better than before the Steeda brace.

 

[seank]

How do you know what settings to set the sways on? trial and error

You will need to adjust to what feels right to you although that will be somewhat hard to find if you are only driving on the street. In general you would want to "soften" up the front bar to increase traction/grip and balance out the added grip you created by going with the wider 305s out back.

This is a good overview of sway bar function to get you up to speed:
Lean Less: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine Articles

 

[Fun4me]

You will need to adjust to what feels right to you although that will be somewhat hard to find if you are only driving on the street. In general you would want to "soften" up the front bar to increase traction/grip and balance out the added grip you created by going with the wider 305s out back.

This is a good overview of sway bar function to get you up to speed:
Lean Less: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine Articles

Thanks

 

[gs462]

You're probably feeling the rear axle shifting over bumps rather than oversteer (unless youre absolutely nailing it on the street). Stiffer panhard rod bushings, lower rode height, and chassis braces will help with the rear axle feeling.

Yes you are correct, I was trying to come up with a way to explain it. but you hit the nail on the head. Should I just buy a new panhard bar? and Can you send me a link to the braces you're talking about. As far as lowering it id like to but just about an inch, I dont think they look very good when they're way low, (just my personal opinion) What else would need replaced with the springs??

 

[corruptor]

Yes you are correct, I was trying to come up with a way to explain it. but you hit the nail on the head. Should I just buy a new panhard bar? and Can you send me a link to the braces you're talking about. As far as lowering it id like to but just about an inch, I dont think they look very good when they're way low, (just my personal opinion) What else would need replaced with the springs??

There are a couple paths you can take when it comes to tying down the rear axle:

1) Watts Link
My first setup was a Fays2 Watts Link. The Fays2 ties the rear axle to a chassis brace, essentially limiting the rear axle's side-to-side shifting while allowing for full up-and-down suspension articulation. It replaces the panhard bar and panhard support brace. The Fays2 was overkill on the street; I do not recommend this path for a primarily street driven car. In my personal experience, the Fays2 required some ongoing maintenance, such as lubing the rod ends regularly, and making sure all nuts and bolts were tight (they broke loose even after I used red loctite; not surprising given the load those parts see).

2) Staying with the panhard rod and support brace
I chose the BMR panhard bar because it is adjustable while it's on the car. A bonus is that the bushings have zerk fittings so they are greaseable without having to remove the bar from the car. If I had to do it over, I'd probably take a strong look at the new Whiteline panhard bar; Whiteline is known for their bushings and it is chromoly, so probably lighter than the BMR's. The negative to the Whiteline bar is it may be difficult to adjust while on-car, though this is not a big issue since it's pretty much "set and forget".

A part that is often overlooked is the panhard support bar. I'm using the BMR panhard support bar. If I could do it over, I'd probably look at the Steeda or Whiteline; both are slightly more expensive, but are lighter (chromoly vs. boxed steel).

Regarding chassis braces, the general concensus is that the S197 platform is quite stiff, and certainly stiff enough for a street car. That said, I'm running the Steeda 3 point torque box and frame rail brace (not sure if I can post links, but if you Google it, you'll find it easily). I chose this brace because it ties the rear lower control arm mounting bracket to the chassis and frame rail. It can be bolted on, or welded on - mine are currently bolted on and as I mentioned, I *think* I can feel a difference with them. The car is smoother on downtown San Francisco streets, which are riddled with giant pot holes. The rear suspension seems to articulate better, which may just be the rear shocks being able to "do their job" now that the rear end isn't shifting side-to-side.

As far as lowering springs, I personally love the FRPP P springs. I ran Steeda Sports, stock Boss 302 springs, and Roush Trak Pak coilovers before and the FRPP P springs give me what I want - 1" lower ride height, non-jarring ride quality, and reduced brake dive. The Steeda Springs felt good too, but on my car I hit the rear bump stops over some of the crap roads here. The Steeda Springs feel like they are setup for some understeer, but not a big enough difference for day to day driving. The Boss 302 springs didn't provide much difference over the Brembo springs, other than a reduced front ride height. The Roush Trak Pak coilovers were incredible on body control and cornering, but killed my ride quality.

If all you want is 1" lower ride height and improved rear axle control, you don't need anything other than springs, shocks, and an adjustable panhard rod. Don't skip on shocks and struts as they provide the most improvement for overall body control. An incremental step up would be a stronger panhard support brace. Yet another incremental step up would include the torque box brace.