[help] Cold Tip-in Issue
- Thread starter SnakeBoostE85
- Start date
are you multiplying the value by 18%, adding 18%... and also as I asked previously.. what table are you doing this in?
If you multiply by 18% or .18 your lowering the load value... Unless you mean multiply by 1.18 (affectively adding 18%)....
If you could post a screen shot of your whole table that would awesome.
questions for any1 with this issue:
what injectors?
what intake / mass air meter?
aprox. how much did you tweak the maf to get low maf counts in line ie....10% 20%ish ?
are you tuning via scaling or bp modifier method?
for me:
60# SD
JLT highboost and ba3000 maf
The sct value files for maf were about 15-20% off due to larger diameter of the high boost intake
I'm using the bp modifier method
what injectors?
what intake / mass air meter?
aprox. how much did you tweak the maf to get low maf counts in line ie....10% 20%ish ?
are you tuning via scaling or bp modifier method?
for me:
60# SD
JLT highboost and ba3000 maf
The sct value files for maf were about 15-20% off due to larger diameter of the high boost intake
I'm using the bp modifier method
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injectors - deatchwerks 100's (For E85)
MAF - SCT BA3000
JLT RAI intake (the one with the heat shield, not going into the fender well)
I'M Scaled about 35%, not using BP method
I didn't do my original tune - my buddy did, so I'm not sure. I can compare my current values to the value file if that will help you. I'm fairly new to tuning in general, but have learned a lot since getting the PRP package and training with my friend.
My car also does this at the first start of the day and it goes away when the engine warms up.
2005 Mustang GT
Kenne Bell 2.6
SD 60 lb hr
SCT BA2800
Lund tuned in person
2005 Mustang GT
Kenne Bell 2.6
SD 60 lb hr
SCT BA2800
Lund tuned in person
Snake boost...
What is your exact displacement?
I made a few changes to your tune, some you will not be able to see (if your a PRP)
Do you have a wideband in the car?
-Matt
What is your exact displacement?
I made a few changes to your tune, some you will not be able to see (if your a PRP)
Do you have a wideband in the car?
-Matt
Thanks Matt. I got the MTF. Its 2.9L Whipple Gen II (non crusher) so, displacement is about 1 liter over stock I believe. In that tune file its set to stock which is 10, should I up that to 11?
I do have a wideband have the ability to datalog.
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Still not having any luck here…
bump… still need help with this.
I've been meaning to get back to this post. I had this issue....and I also had an issue with a lean spot at 1500 rpm's that I couldnt get rid of. When I say I tried everything, I tried all the conventional stuff to resolve both issues. (manifold vol, lwfm, timing, transients, cold fuel tables.... you name it, i tried it)
I have a BA3000 maf and JLT high boost intake...
60# inj
I use the BP modifier method (tho the issue was present even with the traditional scaling method)
I found that I had to make fairly large corrections to the MAF xfer curve to get the car to even idle with the JLT intake ...around 20% increase in xfer values.
In the end....and how I fixed both issues: I used the 60# val file (as always), used the BA3000 file (as always), but instead of adjusting the maf xfer up by 20% I reduced the injector high/low/breakpoint by 20%. Simplified explanation is that reducing slopes will richen the car... Then I only had to tweak the maf xfer, just a small adjustment hear and there...had to take a little out at wot (5% ish). Load is slightly lower, 17 @ idle.... 175 ish at wot... so I had to re-normalize the timing tables a bit. Car is flawless now ...they say dont mess with slopes, i tried for the longest not to. At this point I dont care if its "right or wrong".
I have a BA3000 maf and JLT high boost intake...
60# inj
I use the BP modifier method (tho the issue was present even with the traditional scaling method)
I found that I had to make fairly large corrections to the MAF xfer curve to get the car to even idle with the JLT intake ...around 20% increase in xfer values.
In the end....and how I fixed both issues: I used the 60# val file (as always), used the BA3000 file (as always), but instead of adjusting the maf xfer up by 20% I reduced the injector high/low/breakpoint by 20%. Simplified explanation is that reducing slopes will richen the car... Then I only had to tweak the maf xfer, just a small adjustment hear and there...had to take a little out at wot (5% ish). Load is slightly lower, 17 @ idle.... 175 ish at wot... so I had to re-normalize the timing tables a bit. Car is flawless now ...they say dont mess with slopes, i tried for the longest not to. At this point I dont care if its "right or wrong".
Wow interesting. Thanks for posting this information. Still have the problem and its gotten worse with the colder temps. I have never played with slopes, so I don't know what I am doing there. I'm sure I can figure it out though. I'm running 100 pound deatch werks injectors on E85.
So your load is 1.75 at WOT, but what was it before and how much boost are you running?
My load has always pegged out at 1.99, running about 18-20 psi...
So your load is 1.75 at WOT, but what was it before and how much boost are you running?
My load has always pegged out at 1.99, running about 18-20 psi...
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I have a 2.3 whipple at 18lbs and mine too was always pegged at 1.99. Now it see's 170-175ish ....so had to renormalize the timing table a bit. Granted, I could have adjusted the displacement and brought the load back inline with what it was b4...but I chose not to. Also ....I said I was using the ba3000 val file... I used a file that doesnt force the scaling. I also had to re-tweak the lwfm table, but honestly this table never made as big a difference on my car like others have stated.
Ok I multiplied my high, low, and breakpoint by 0.8 but didn't touch MAF xfer yet just to see if it would make any difference with the cold tip in… It didn't do *anything* for me. My fuel trims were just super rich. Do I need to calibrate the MAF also to see if messing with the slopes is working?
For shits and giggles I multiplied it by 1.2 to go the other way (lean) and it wouldn't even idle.
For shits and giggles I multiplied it by 1.2 to go the other way (lean) and it wouldn't even idle.
Did you start by reloading the MAF? Reload the maf ...then check stft with the car warm (or see how far off you are in OL). If the car is 10% lean (stft .90) for example, instead of raising the maf xfer to bring it inline try reducing the slopes by 10%.
If the car was already dialed in (warm) and then you just cut the slopes it would probably just peg the stft's at 1.25 when cold...prob make the issue worse haha.
If the car was already dialed in (warm) and then you just cut the slopes it would probably just peg the stft's at 1.25 when cold...prob make the issue worse haha.
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OK I have finally resolved this… not really using any of the above mentioned solutions, as none of them worked for me. My theory here is that ethanol's flashpoint is much higher than gas and it just needs a ton of freakin fuel when it cold to prevent tip-in issues. So here goes… in order for the startup cold fuel table to be effective until the car warms up I had to hold it open loop much longer than stock. Which we touched on above. So I started taking notes on how long it would take to reach 100 degrees from various start up temps and basically plugged round values into the time-delay for closed loop table.
View attachment 37707
so as you can see I might wait as long as 5 minutes to go closed loop based on startup temp down to about 20 seconds if its near 100 degrees. The problem is that I noticed my short term fuel trims were all over the place until the car was warmed up. (maybe I need to replace my front 02 sensors), but until the car was warmed up, the 02's were basically useless and short term trims were useless to help control fueling.
Knowing that my MAF transfer function was tuned to the TEE, I figured why can't I just use my MAF at startup instead of the closed loop crap. So holding it open loop allowed me to get the startup cold fuel table to work.
So I added a ton of start up cold fuel below 100 degrees ECT.
View attachment 37708
I think its richer than it needs to be, but the stock values were clearly not enough fuel to prevent the tip-in condition. I will probably pull some out on the lower end until I find the threshold of the tip-in condition. My wideband is reading about 12.x at part throttle, but at idle its 14.7 (running ethanol, but using gas afr's)… anyone see an issue running rich at cold start up? I wouldn't be hurting anything except being less emission friendly I presume.
Next I also lowered my manifold volume quite a bit until I had hot tip-in issues. I settled in at 6 liters. (keep in mind I am scaled) The BA3000 mvf file changes manifold volume from 10 to 4 and I am running a 2.9 Liter blower so 6 is probably about right with the scaling.
So all in all.. I'm only effecting things below 100 degrees ECT and I didn't have any hot tip-in conditions.
This might be a bit of hack-ish way to fix the problem, but I honestly could not get a reaction from the car unless I held it up open-loop. Again the 02 sensors just don't work until they are warmed up so closed loop fueling is basically useless.
Curious on folks thoughts and concerns with the solution here.
View attachment 37707
so as you can see I might wait as long as 5 minutes to go closed loop based on startup temp down to about 20 seconds if its near 100 degrees. The problem is that I noticed my short term fuel trims were all over the place until the car was warmed up. (maybe I need to replace my front 02 sensors), but until the car was warmed up, the 02's were basically useless and short term trims were useless to help control fueling.
Knowing that my MAF transfer function was tuned to the TEE, I figured why can't I just use my MAF at startup instead of the closed loop crap. So holding it open loop allowed me to get the startup cold fuel table to work.
So I added a ton of start up cold fuel below 100 degrees ECT.
View attachment 37708
I think its richer than it needs to be, but the stock values were clearly not enough fuel to prevent the tip-in condition. I will probably pull some out on the lower end until I find the threshold of the tip-in condition. My wideband is reading about 12.x at part throttle, but at idle its 14.7 (running ethanol, but using gas afr's)… anyone see an issue running rich at cold start up? I wouldn't be hurting anything except being less emission friendly I presume.
Next I also lowered my manifold volume quite a bit until I had hot tip-in issues. I settled in at 6 liters. (keep in mind I am scaled) The BA3000 mvf file changes manifold volume from 10 to 4 and I am running a 2.9 Liter blower so 6 is probably about right with the scaling.
So all in all.. I'm only effecting things below 100 degrees ECT and I didn't have any hot tip-in conditions.
This might be a bit of hack-ish way to fix the problem, but I honestly could not get a reaction from the car unless I held it up open-loop. Again the 02 sensors just don't work until they are warmed up so closed loop fueling is basically useless.
Curious on folks thoughts and concerns with the solution here.
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