Heim or poly joints?

[wenger828]

Im looking to replacing my lower/upper rear control arms to adjustable ones to take care of the wheel hop i've started getting since lowering the car on eibach pro-lines. Anyways, NVH is not a concern of mine, but what I am concerned about is the reliability of the heim joints vs polyurethane ones. From a performance aspect, i know the heim joints are better as they have no deflection at all, but being that i daily drive the car, I want to make sure they will last. Any one experience a shorten life span with the heim jointed control arms as opposed to the polyurethanes?

 

[LSWon00]

Go with the Urethane if you plan on using the car on the street. You want some deflection for street use. They'll have better ride quality and will last longer. You need something to absorb the impact force from road impacts. The Heim joints will transmit that force to other parts of the suspension which will lead to more expensive broken parts.

If its a track only car I would say Heim.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Im looking to replacing my lower/upper rear control arms to adjustable ones to take care of the wheel hop i've started getting since lowering the car on eibach pro-lines. Anyways, NVH is not a concern of mine, but what I am concerned about is the reliability of the heim joints vs polyurethane ones. From a performance aspect, i know the heim joints are better as they have no deflection at all, but being that i daily drive the car, I want to make sure they will last. Any one experience a shorten life span with the heim jointed control arms as opposed to the polyurethanes?

Daily Driver. BMR - Polyurethane. :beer:

 

[wenger828]

Ty for response. Van, do adjustable LCA's matter if the UCA is adjustable? Or is it best to get both LCA & UCA as adjustable ones? I really want to take care of this wheel hop that I never had until i lowered the car

 

[Tob]

You want some deflection for street use. They'll have better ride quality and will last longer. You need something to absorb the impact force from road impacts. The Heim joints will transmit that force to other parts of the suspension which will lead to more expensive broken parts.

I'm going to strongly disagree with much of the above.

You don't want deflection as that is what leads to broken parts. You want bushings that do not deflect and that minimize bind. Poly bushings will deteriorate (and many fail completely) in a lower control arm design (such as that of the S197) as well as the upper control arm. How quickly is simply a function of how hard you push them.

Typical aftermarket arms that utilize poly bushings facilitate fore/aft deflection as well as inducing bind laterally. With time and use, these issues are compounded and accurately locating the axle throughout its range of motion becomes more and more difficult. If drag racing or shock loading the rear suspension is in your future I absolutely wouldn't consider poly. But don't take my word for it...

Urethane rear lower control arm bushings should not be used for any type of drag racing. The statement "any type of drag racing" includes any hard standing start launch, whether it is at the drag strip or a stoplight on the street. Hard launches, when the engine RPMs are increased significantly and the clutch is released abruptly, put an enormous sudden shock load on the control arm bushings. Urethane bushings will suffer a shortened lifespan from this type of use. The higher the power level, the stickier the tires, and the better everything else that helps a car launch more quickly is, the greater the stress on urethane bushings, and the shorter their lifespan.

I'll be kind to SVTP the bandwidth and not link a plethora of poly bushing failures. Suffice it to say, that reduced articulation and more deflection than say that of a heim jointed arm, is exactly what you don't want.

 

[Buddah]

daily driver=get BMR with polys' on both ends OR poly's one one end and tie rod ends on the other.
drag=get BMR with tie rod ends on both sides.
though you said that NVH was not a concern....

 

[500_man]

Tob, what do you think of the ball-in-socket style urethane bushings? They certainly minimize binding.

 

[dirtyo2000]

So far my BMR poly have been holding up. The first one I had did come apart though in less than 500 miles. Made it through the track and let go on the street the next day. Bushing actually came apart. Called BMR and they said sent pics. Snapped a few and sent to them. 2 days later new set with a return shipping label for the old ones. No problems since.

 

[me32]

I'm running J&M upper an lower poly an I have no problem. I have lots of track passes. Not saying heim joints aren't better for track. But poly seems to work well.

 

[wenger828]

Yeah, NVH isn't a concern of mine, my main concern is reliability and how long it'll last. Can anyone tell me is a adjustable LCA necessary if the UCA is adjustable?

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Yeah, NVH isn't a concern of mine, my main concern is reliability and how long it'll last. Can anyone tell me is a adjustable LCA necessary if the UCA is adjustable?

What's your application?

Street or strip?

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Tob,

You are here by banned for telling the truth! How dare you EVER tell the truth here!!!!

Wait, damn....sorry about that. Thought I was posting on Camaro5 forums again.

:wf:

 

[F8L SN8K]

Stay away from solid control arms if the cars see a lot of street duty. The solid control arms won't fail but the torque box holes will become oblong and cause a terrible racket, get movement of the rear axle and destroy torque boxes also. After installing, riding, driving and seeing aftermath of solid control arms do I would not recommend them for a street car that sees a lot of miles. Perhaps a weekend bruiser that saw track duty also would be fine. The NVH isnt great and gets much much worse as you beat on the chassis more and more. Ever rode in a higher mileage Fox/Fox-4(sn-95) chassis that had solid control arms? Go on a long distance trip? Damn the car is a rattle can that pops, creaks, moans and groans over pebbles or street variations in height or cracks, turning, shifting, accelerating, decelerating and not just the suspension but everything in/on the car is lose, paint cracked and body panels misaligned because of all the vibration being transferred directly to the chassis. I'd rather replace polyurethane bushings ever so often personally.

Now a race car? Completely different story Solid all the way if your trying to achieve maximum performance.

 

[wenger828]

Stay away from solid control arms if the cars see a lot of street duty. The solid control arms won't fail but the torque box holes will become oblong and cause a terrible racket, get movement of the rear axle and destroy torque boxes also. After installing, riding, driving and seeing aftermath of solid control arms do I would not recommend them for a street car that sees a lot of miles. Perhaps a weekend bruiser that saw track duty also would be fine. The NVH isnt great and gets much much worse as you beat on the chassis more and more. Ever rode in a higher mileage Fox/Fox-4(sn-95) chassis that had solid control arms? Go on a long distance trip? Damn the car is a rattle can that pops, creaks, moans and groans over pebbles or street variations in height or cracks, turning, shifting, accelerating, decelerating and not just the suspension but everything in/on the car is lose, paint cracked and body panels misaligned because of all the vibration being transferred directly to the chassis. I'd rather replace polyurethane bushings ever so often personally.

Now a race car? Completely different story Solid all the way if your trying to achieve maximum performance.

thank you, convinced that i'm not getting solid joints haha

 

[evasive]

Even with running torque box braces such as the ones from Evolution?

 

[Tob]

How many torque boxes on an S197 chassis have you seen damaged from using heim joints? Can anyone provide photos?

 

[rw95gt]

I run a solid upper and stock lower and the noise in the car is a little anoying but I would rather deal with noise vs replace poly bushings. If a daily drove my car I would run poly.

 

[Tob]

The solid upper is an NVH killer. An adjustable upper arm, utilizing the bushings Roush uses fore and aft on their anti hop kit, would be the best compromise to date.