GT350/R Price Drop? Time to Buy?

GT Premi

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I get it guys. I really do. I'm not saying the R is the same. I'm just saying that I think there MAY be a placebo effect among purchasers and a marketing effort among industry professionals to paint the differences between the R and the regular 350 as more than they really are.

...

You've ALL seen videos or even real world examples of where someone puts a very minor modification on their car and claims "dude, it's COMPLETELY different." "It makes a HUGE difference."

Again, I think the R is better, I just don't think it's the massive jump all of you are hoping/experiencing (over the 350).

I'm not infallible or always right. Time may prove me wrong (with REAL numbers and testing) but for now, all we have to go on is..."it feels way better."

It seems to me (and possibly others) that you are saying you think the R isn't any better than a standard GT350, essentially that Ford sold us a Bill of Goods. I think you need to do more research on the cars. Ford didn't just throw a bunch of parts and packages together just to give drivers the feels. The standard GT350 and the R are wind tunnel tested cars. If the R's aero didn't do anything, it wouldn't be on the car. Those carbon fiber wheels aren't just for lightness. The lightness provides for better steering feedback while the stiffer structure makes for sharper turn-in. Now add in the dampers, springs, sway bars, tuning, etc. Yes, it does make a huge difference in how the car "feels", but it's also actual performance gains.

Speaking of "the feels", that is a quantifiable and measurable quotient. Driver confidence might be the biggest improvement you can make to see big gains in lap times. I reject your theory that it's a placebo affect or, what you're really trying to say, purchase validation. Go read my initial review thread about my R, and tell me that's coming from somebody who's all doe-eyed and in love or even slightly biased. I was looking at the R with a critical eye the very instant Ford said it's as fast as a 991.1 GT3 around a track. I'll believe it when I see it.
 

ANGREY

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I won't belabor what I've already stated. The R is better, we probably just have differences of opinion on how much. And at this point, until someone shows me numbers and facts, it's all subjective.

Back to the point of the thread and to tie this in, what's relevant about this healthy discussion on the performance difference between the R and the 350 is how it will relate to the resale values when the new 500 product arrives.

If the perception (real or otherwise) is that the R is light years above the 350, it will help to bolster the R's value.

Depending on the price point of the 500, it IS going to hurt R sales and resales if the two are remotely close.

As discussed earlier, IF the price is significantly more (which many have supported why that will be) then I think the price of the 350's suffers less. That and the 350 has already dropped significantly, to the point that it's now bouncing off support below from the premium GT and the new performance level upgrades.
 

GT Premi

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...
As discussed earlier, IF the price is significantly more (which many have supported why that will be) then I think the price of the 350's suffers less. That and the 350 has already dropped significantly, to the point that it's now bouncing off support below from the premium GT and the new performance level upgrades.

You must be looking at resale prices of '15/'16 Base and Tech Pack cars.
 

CO Mack

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You keep talking about price @ANGREY. People that have driven them, owners and journalists alike talk about the big difference. I’ve quoted and linked it.

But you, with no experience driving the vehicle, knows the psychology of why we all make that claim.:rolleyes:
 

ANGREY

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You keep talking about price @ANGREY. People that have driven them, owners and journalists alike talk about the big difference. I’ve quoted and linked it.

But you, with no experience driving the vehicle, knows the psychology of why we all make that claim.:rolleyes:

Very true. I've never driven the vehicle.

At some point, hopefully all of you that have, can provide more than just "it feels better, trust us."
 

oldbmwfan

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Out of the box, Randy Pobst went nearly 3 seconds quicker at Chuckwalla Valley Raceway in an R vs. a non-R. To be totally scientific, you'd want to run the non-R on the R tires to see what difference is "left."

I agree that the on-paper spec differences are minor: wheels, aero, exhaust resonator, springs, damper tuning, ABS tuning, stability control tuning, minor weight loss, and I think some differences in factory alignment. And yes, the base GT350 (w/ track pack at least) is a very, very good car.

I have driven both, the GT350 on private/closed roads and the R on both street and track, and there is a subjective feel that is much more notably different than one would expect based on the above. The biggest difference in feel, to me, was steering response and turn-in and the sensation of a lighter nose (probably a combination of more tire grip, more aggressive alignment, less unsprung weight, and stiffer springs).

The absolute, quantitative performance delta can be whittled away significantly by the addition of lightweight wheels and tires, as Tob mentioned, and I'm sure that such changes plus alignment tweaks could give the GT350 some of the "pointiness" of the R. I'm sure most of us mere mortals can't fully exploit the incremental difference in capability afforded by the R aero package.

Ultimately, that's 100% academic.

The real story is, the R is unique in ways that can't be duplicated (all the electronic system calibration), it is limited to 10% of total GT350 production, and it is, in stock form, faster - and down the line, stock cars have more value than modified cars. For these reasons, stock GT350Rs will hold their value as a unique and low-volume thing even though the next big thing will inevitably be better. Look at the relative value of the 997 GT3RS vs the GT3. Does the 991 devalue the 997 a tiny bit? Sure. Does it matter? Not really. (This line of thinking is why my GT350R is staying stock except for practical, reversible mods like jacking rails and oil separators).

If your goal is to get around a track as fast as possible for a bargain price, NONE of these cars are the correct choice when you can get a used Nascar truck for $15k or an Ariel Atom for $45k or a Miata with an LS motor for $10k or a 996TT with 750 whp for $40k ... list goes on.

Decide what you like, buy it, drive the hell out of it, and die happy. Anyone buying a new car *primarily* as a speculative investment is very silly, IMO.
 

GT Premi

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The real story is, the R is unique in ways that can't be duplicated (all the electronic system calibration), it is limited to 10% of total GT350 production, and it is, in stock form, faster - and down the line, stock cars have more value than modified cars. For these reasons, stock GT350Rs will hold their value as a unique and low-volume thing even though the next big thing will inevitably be better. Look at the relative value of the 997 GT3RS vs the GT3. Does the 991 devalue the 997 a tiny bit? Sure. Does it matter? Not really. (This line of thinking is why my GT350R is staying stock except for practical, reversible mods like jacking rails and oil separators).

...

Mine is going to remain primarily stock, too, unless someone comes out with a gotta-have-it mod, which no one has yet. I did add oil separators, but I bought the ridiculously expensive OEM ones. So they still look like they came on the car from the factory. Unless you know what you're looking for, you wouldn't even notice them, especially the passenger side one. I don't want to mar what the car is.

I bought mine to enjoy and put tons of miles on, not as an investment. It's not meant to be propped up in a garage full-time and dry rot.
 

ZYBORG

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But I have yet to be regaled with actual facts, not just subjective statements.

I have yet to see facts...

The R is much faster around any given track. The R is also faster in a straight line.

The R is a special / low production vehicle.

Those are facts. If you dont see them, then I don't know what else to tell you.
 

Tob

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The biggest difference in feel, to me, was steering response and turn-in and the sensation of a lighter nose (probably a combination of more tire grip, more aggressive alignment, less unsprung weight, and stiffer springs).

The absolute, quantitative performance delta can be whittled away significantly by the addition of lightweight wheels and tires...and I'm sure that such changes plus alignment tweaks could give the GT350 some of the "pointiness" of the R.

Yes.
 

JAJ

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There are two mods you can make to a GT350R that will make it handle better than stock.

1. DSC Sport suspension controller.
2. Carbon Ceramic Brake rotors for the front axles.

Both are reversible in an hour or so, and both will transform the car even more than it's already transformed.
 

JAJ

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...I have driven both, the GT350 on private/closed roads and the R on both street and track, and there is a subjective feel that is much more notably different than one would expect based on the above. The biggest difference in feel, to me, was steering response and turn-in and the sensation of a lighter nose (probably a combination of more tire grip, more aggressive alignment, less unsprung weight, and stiffer springs)...

Speaking of "feel" I was (pleasantly) surprised by the big change in feel when I put the CCB brake rotors on the front of my GT350. They take about 16 pounds of rotating unsprung mass off each front wheel, which is about the same as switching from OEM GT350 rims with MPSS's to OEM GT350R rims with MPSC2's. Aside from the awesome braking you get with CCB's, the change in the feel was impressive enough that about once a week, I have to talk myself out of ordering a set of GT350R CF wheels just so I can see what happens with taking another 15 pounds of unsprung weight off each corner.
 

CO Mack

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Speaking of "feel" I was (pleasantly) surprised by the big change in feel when I put the CCB brake rotors on the front of my GT350. They take about 16 pounds of rotating unsprung mass off each front wheel, which is about the same as switching from OEM GT350 rims with MPSS's to OEM GT350R rims with MPSC2's. Aside from the awesome braking you get with CCB's, the change in the feel was impressive enough that about once a week, I have to talk myself out of ordering a set of GT350R CF wheels just so I can see what happens with taking another 15 pounds of unsprung weight off each corner.

Hmmm...which rotors? (Edit- nevermind I see in another post I found they’re the RBs)

Also, are you just using the included tune(s) with the DSC controller?
 
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CO Mack

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Ford ran the R with and without the rear spoiler. Ask them what the difference is....

Right. Do all the mods Ford did- aero, wheels/tires, sway bars and springs, re-align, and In my case, add coolers...and an R looks like a deal if you can buy it near MSRP (I did). Especially as it’ll always be an R if/when it comes time to sell.
 

JAJ

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Hmmm...which rotors? (Edit- nevermind I see in another post I found they’re the RBs)

Also, are you just using the included tune(s) with the DSC controller?

Yes. The first time I went to the track with the DSC installed, it was a revelation. It came off the corners like being fired from a gun.
 

ZYBORG

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Speaking of "feel" I was (pleasantly) surprised by the big change in feel when I put the CCB brake rotors on the front of my GT350. They take about 16 pounds of rotating unsprung mass off each front wheel, which is about the same as switching from OEM GT350 rims with MPSS's to OEM GT350R rims with MPSC2's. Aside from the awesome braking you get with CCB's, the change in the feel was impressive enough that about once a week, I have to talk myself out of ordering a set of GT350R CF wheels just so I can see what happens with taking another 15 pounds of unsprung weight off each corner.

The wheels will give you an even more impressive feel over the CCB's.

Wheels are farther out from center axis with most of the weight being at the outermost portion. This has a much greater impact that the CCB's.

That's one of the huge reasons the R is so good. You can't just go to your local store and "just get lighter wheels".
 

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