Grrr, cobra in shop again, more clutch issues

[Lord Warlock]

This is starting to get frustrating, since i've had the car over the past 2 years, the car has gone thru at least 2 clutch cables, and yesterday it sounded like the the throwout bearing went south or even the clutch or pp itself. The clutch pedal lost all pressure. The dealer says it isn't the cable this time, and has to pull the transmission to figure out what it is. whoopie, another 600.00+ bill from the dealer, and just before xmas, so santa is gonna be strapped this year. No goodies for me.

Considering the fact that the car only has 32k on it, and has never been launched hard or even driven hard above 4k rpm, since it mainly sees daily duties on the interstate to and from work, stuck in traffic mostly. I can't believe the amount of failures the svt cobra has had so far. None of my mustangs have ever died this many times, even when they hit 100k they were more dependable than this one at 30k.

i love the way it runs, when it runs, but i'm beginning to have doubts about this cars long term viability as a daily driver. And i don't need any more weekend warrior cars, as i have two of those already. If it keeps up with this constant need of attention by mechanics or dealers, i'll be moving on to something else alot sooner than i ever thought possible. :cuss:

Wanted a supercharged mustang for almost a decade, finally got one, and the car seems to be in the shop every 3 weeks.

 

[slo-poc]

something is causing it....this is not a common problem......there is alot of high milage terminators.....have your garage not just replace the cable...but look for the problem....

 

[03dsgcobranc]

try a different shop

 

[Lord Warlock]

is 1200 average for a factory replacement clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel? they say the flywheel is scored and clutch is trash. Seems awful pricey for a clutch/pp/flywheel replacement. And this is just the parts cost.

and the dealer i take it to is a svt authorized dealer.

 

[orange2004cobra]

too much for oem components imo..
Then again, you ARE at a ford dealer..

 

[jbrown1238]

I have had similar problems with my 03 Cobra until 25,000 miles ago when I had a performance shop here in the Tampa Bay area correct the issues that Ford couldn’t. On two occasions I had multiple clutch components replaced by the dealership under factory warranty, once at 9,000 miles and again at 15,000 miles. At 24,000 miles I replaced the clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bearing, bearing retainer sleeve, shifter, and installed a Fiore clutch quadrant and adjuster along with a free play kit.

My car is a daily driver and it isn’t driven hard. Normal driving under 4500 RPM’s with no hard shifting destroyed the factory parts on several occasions. It sounds like your driving habits and vehicle usage are similar to mine. I would strongly recommend a Spec Stage 2 clutch kit, new flywheel, and a steel-bearing retainer (that is the key as it was the root of my problem both times). The firewall adjuster, quadrant, and the free play kit help keep the pressure off the throw out bearing as well. See the attached link for a photo of the parts minus the firewall adjuster, quadrant, and the free play kit.

Bite the bullet and fix it one more time, with these parts it will probably be the last time. Keep the car; you know it is the one you waited for all this time!

http://img40.picoodle.com/img/img40/5/11/27/jbrown1238/f_DSC00026m_dac0af9.jpg

 

[Lord Warlock]

I thought i was raped when i spent 1000 on a clutch replacement on the stealth a decade ago, the mustang i had before that cost a whopping 250 to replace a clutch. This job is sounding like 1200-1400 in parts, plus labor, so will total close to 1900 for a stupid clutch, plus i have to wait 3 days for them to get the parts from dearborn.

Its possible whoever had the car before me trashed the clutch in 20k miles, and my driving just made it last longer than it would otherwise. Mine's a daily driver, which rarely sees 4500 rpm except in 1st. Never shift hard, never speed shift, no clutch dumps etc, but they said the "cone" whatever that is was almost welded to the transmission shaft (which happened to the stealth when it broke too). I sure as heck wasn't expecting a 2k bill for a clutch, but if it fixes the gripes i have with the tranny/shifting etc it may be worth having done...like i have a choice in the matter. Can't trade it without fixing it anyway.

I replaced the quadrant with a steeda quadrant and firewall adjuster cable, right after i got it, and that cable broke in 3 months, the factory replacement lasted twice that and helped the shifting issues but didn't resolve them. When ford took it off they kept the quadrant (since i claimed ignorance on how it got installed) but the new quadrant was less than 4k on it.

 

[slo-poc]

I paid 1200 for everything listed from lethal performance give em a call.....

 

[Lord Warlock]

looks like you got the shifter as well, i have the same one. orange handle and all. Our flywheel is aluminum isn't it? looks like it in the picture, but i thought the factory one was supposed to be aluminum.

If i had it at a different repair shop, i'd consider using aftermarket parts, but the dealer isn't likely to install non ford parts in it and warranty the work.

 

[djtyau]

Make sure you have aligned the quadrant or you will be slicing cables all the time. Went through the same issue and found out my quadrant was be used as a hack saw due to being aligned incorrectly.

 

[03cobramanIII]

never go to the dealer, they rag your car out harder than you do. i used to work on imports/ where it was a ford dealer also, one tech missed the turn after the bridge in went into the bushes LOL. even the car washer would drive your car around the block porter etc. and take them to lunch, even bring them home ''to test it out''
learn to work on them yourself

 

[Nutty 5.0]

Yep, they're factory alum. with a riveted steel section where the clutch rides. Many have gotten away with turning the stock one. I went with a new Fidanza, but after seeing mine I could have turned it.

You should find a reputable shop in your area and pay less for better stuff IMO.

 

[Lord Warlock]

To quell some of the simpler answers, a few points on my background, I'm 46, I've been into the car hobby for 30 years, still own my first car (69 Charger R/T SE) and do all the mechanical, body work, paint etc myself, but i'm long past the age where 5 hours under a car wrestling a tranny out using a hydraulic jack and ramps for clearance is a fun endeavor. Until I get a lift for the new garage I just built...which was going to cost less than this repair, I'll take it to a shop to do the grunt work. At least when I take a car in, I know what actually broke in most cases. The whole point in buying a low mileage "slightly used" car was to have no maintenance costs, so i could focus what meager energy i have on the projects that have been waiting patiently. I do maintenance on the 440 magnum, and most everything on the stealth twin turbo (i'd pay someone to do the clutch on it too)

I have a trustworthy shop to take it to once the car is clearly out of warranty but having had previous cable work done recently by Ford, covered under warranty (June) even though the 36 months expired in July there was a chance it would still be covered if the cable had broken instead of the clutch. So I took it to the Dealer. They'd serviced it for everything else under warranty and were always fair then, and I don't think the dealer is charging excessively on labor, the parts seem a bit high to me.

I'm not as anal about a technician test driving the car a couple times on the back lot, i know if i was a tech, I'd be doing it too, and after a clutch replacement I'd actually prefer the senior tech do a couple good launches to make sure the parts are set right. I'll end up doing it myself with a couple weeks just to make sure myself.

 

[SnakeBit]

The problem with aftermarket quadrants is the part which slips on the shafts (which are directly connected to the pedal) is narrower than the stock quadrant. So when you slip it on over the shafts, there is quite a bit of free play from side to side. I went to the hardware store and bought several 1/2" washers. They had 2 different ones (thickness differences) so I bought some of each type. In addition, if you check the plumbing section, you can find some rubber washers. You will have to do some trial and error to get the quadrant lined up with the cable as it comes through the firewall. It was difficult for me to see because the cable comes over the top of the quadrant, so I stuck my hand up there and lined it up by feel. Washers went on both sides of the quadrant, and on both shafts.

In addition, the channel cut into the quadrant can have sharp inner edges, so I hit mine with the buffer wheel to soften up that edge. If the cable isn't lined up, it can ride up on the edge then get pulled down into the channel when the tension gets high enough. This can chafe the cable and eventually break it.

Now, on to the Throw Out Bearing. When you have the stock quadrant, it self adjusts when you pull up on the clutch pedal. But this self adjustment allows the TOB to ride on the P/P fingers all of the time. LDC sold a spring + bushing which you slip over the cable at the clutch fork. This forces the TOB away from the P/P fingers unless the pedal has been pushed in. I don't know if they are still selling their Clutch Freeplay Spring, since they are taking a hiatus, but maybe Lethal Performance still has some.

Finally, Lethal also sells a better TOB Retainer Sleeve than Ford does. The Ford unit has been known to break long before the clutch or TOB does.

I hope this helps. Problems like this can suck.

 

[black03]

The problem with aftermarket quadrants is the part which slips on the shafts (which are directly connected to the pedal) is narrower than the stock quadrant. So when you slip it on over the shafts, there is quite a bit of free play from side to side. I went to the hardware store and bought several 1/2" washers. They had 2 different ones (thickness differences) so I bought some of each type. In addition, if you check the plumbing section, you can find some rubber washers. You will have to do some trial and error to get the quadrant lined up with the cable as it comes through the firewall. It was difficult for me to see because the cable comes over the top of the quadrant, so I stuck my hand up there and lined it up by feel. Washers went on both sides of the quadrant, and on both shafts.

In addition, the channel cut into the quadrant can have sharp inner edges, so I hit mine with the buffer wheel to soften up that edge. If the cable isn't lined up, it can ride up on the edge then get pulled down into the channel when the tension gets high enough. This can chafe the cable and eventually break it.

Now, on to the Throw Out Bearing. When you have the stock quadrant, it self adjusts when you pull up on the clutch pedal. But this self adjustment allows the TOB to ride on the P/P fingers all of the time. LDC sold a spring + bushing which you slip over the cable at the clutch fork. This forces the TOB away from the P/P fingers unless the pedal has been pushed in. I don't know if they are still selling their Clutch Freeplay Spring, since they are taking a hiatus, but maybe Lethal Performance still has some.

Finally, Lethal also sells a better TOB Retainer Sleeve than Ford does. The Ford unit has been known to break long before the clutch or TOB does.

I hope this helps. Problems like this can suck.

Thanks for all the plugs bro..

Just touch on something that you mentioned about the LDC FreePlay Kits. We'll be stocking these here very shortly. We'll have plenty of them in about a week and a half so there will never be an issue getting them. Our good friends over at LDC trust that we will handle their products and we thank them for allowing us to represent them and their products as well!

Jared

 

[Nutty 5.0]

Great news Jared! Any plans of the LDC cooling kit being done by Lethal too?

 

[SnakeBit]

Thanks for all the plugs bro..

Just touch on something that you mentioned about the LDC FreePlay Kits. We'll be stocking these here very shortly. We'll have plenty of them in about a week and a half so there will never be an issue getting them. Our good friends over at LDC trust that we will handle their products and we thank them for allowing us to represent them and their products as well!

Jared

When the stock one lets go, I know where I'll be getting my clutch parts from. :beer:

 

[Lord Warlock]

An update,

I got the car back from ford Yesterday afternoon, they had it almost a week, had to wait for them to order the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, cone, new transmission section that the cone fits on (old cone wouldn't come off so they replaced everything), then they also found out the cable had stretched and wouldn't bolt on to the new parts, so had to order one of those too. They removed the Steeda quadrant and put a stock one back on. The did decide to pay for 5 days of the 8 day rental, so I couldn't complain too loudly. But total for everything, was 2395.00, about 1300 more than i expected to pay for a clutch job, (but last one i did was in the late 90s so costs may have gone up a bit since then).

1st impression: from the feel of the pedal, the replacement pressure plate simply couldn't be the same as the one removed. Pedal pressure is half as hard now as it used to be, takes little effort to hold down now, I have no problem holding the clutch in at a long stoplight now, I'm having a few problems adjusting to a super light clutch during initial launch, i'm sure i'll adapt in a few days but its a whole different type of ride now. 1-2 shift with a quick throw worked fine, but couldn't snap it as hard as i wanted to with a kid in the car. did do one hard launch at 3500 and it had no wheelhop, no tire squeal either, just instant spinning tires.

I kept the flywheel as a souvenier, figure i'll buy a clock kit and make a clock for the garage out of it. The pressure plate truly looked attrocious, rust spots everywhere, nothing like i expected, the clutch disc itself was wore out completely, one side was paper thin, the other was past the point where metal was cutting into the flywheel.

The Ford folks, even though they had told me about the aftermarket cable/quadrant (steeda double hook) firewall adjuster, when they replaced it last time i thought they had swapped out the quadrant, but was wrong, they pulled it out this time and stuck a new rod that holds it in place, as well as the factory quadrant, and new cable. I guess I'll sell the quadrant, the new parts seem to work great together. I'll have to wait and see if it starts getting sloppy again, or getting harder to shift.

When i got the car back, the exterior was filthy, with fingerprints, grease spots etc all over the front end. They seem to forget about washing and vacuuming the car when its in for service, but at least they do decent work putting the parts back together.

 

[03cobra#116]

My car's a daily driver in Atlanta traffic, lots of stops and starts. My clutch was fine until my son-in-law accidentally started in 4th gear and burned it out. (My daughter said "I wondered why he didn't stop when we smelled it burning.") That was at 65000 miles.

It was a blessing in disguise, since the Center Force dual friction clutch that replaced it has half the pedal pressure. That makes a big difference, especially in a 52-mile round trip commute in Atlanta gridlock.

The 65000 miles I put on it (my son-in-law's a great guy, but he was too accustomed to a low torque BMW) was probably the equivalent to twice that amount of starts in many other towns.

 

[SnakeBit]

An update,
1st impression: from the feel of the pedal, the replacement pressure plate simply couldn't be the same as the one removed. Pedal pressure is half as hard now as it used to be, takes little effort to hold down now, I have no problem holding the clutch in at a long stoplight now, I'm having a few problems adjusting to a super light clutch during initial launch, i'm sure i'll adapt in a few days but its a whole different type of ride now.

That seems to be normal. But as the clutch ages and goes through heat cycles, it will get stiffer. You won't notice it though, like the frog in the pan of water which is heating up. Then it will be real stiff by the time it wears out, so you get the same clutch and the replacement feels real light and easy, and you say, "This can't be the same clutch..." and the cycle starts over again. :lol:

Glad you got it fixed.