Getting pulled over with a loaded gun (LEO only please)

[fiveohhhstang]

I have applied for my CWP (concealed weapons permit) for Montana and will be receiving it in about 6 weeks. I plan to carry a loaded gun in my car while I'm driving alone anywhere.

If I happen to get pulled over do I need to tell the officer that I have a loaded weapon and where it's located? Should I just hand him my CWP permit along with my license and registration? I rarely get pulled over but I would like to know the proper procedure in case it does happen.

Thanks!

 

[musclemustang65]

My preferance is to keep both hands on the steering wheel and tell the officer that you have a gun in the vehicle and the location and that you have a permit for it. DO NOT reach for anything afterwards unless directed to and follow his orders afterwards.

 

[fiveohhhstang]

Thanks for the input. It will most likely be in the door pocket or where I am within reach of it. I figured the officer who is pulling me over will want to know I have a loaded gun in the car.

I assume he will want to be in possession of the gun for the stop. Will he (or she) take it and give it back to me, or something like that?

 

[fiveohhhstang]

Right now I (we) have a Bulgarian Makarov but I am planning to buy a Taurus 24/7 Pro 9mm to carry in my purse or in the side pocket of my door.

MT is an open carry state and most people here have guns, so I think officers here are not unused to seeing people with a gun. I was just concerned that if the officer sees it and I didn't say anything about it that I may be in trouble.

 

[Lt. ZO6]

I agree with the advice given above.

-Hands on the wheel
-Disclose you have the weapon + ccw
-Advise where it's located
-No furtive movements
-Follow the officers instructions

 

[silver03svt]

Most states now advise whether you have a ccw or not when your info is run. Here in VA, when we run a vehicle's tag, it also gives us the primary vehicle owner's info and whether they hold on or not, if it's a VA tag.
My advice as an LEO, is always be up front, open and honest about your concealed weapon. Honesty with the LEO is always the best policy, especially when dealing with a weapon.
When someone advises me they have a concealed weapon, I ask where it is, what it is, and AFTER seeing their permit, I will allow them to retrieve it so I don't have to reach in the vehicle. Most LEO's will hold on to the weapon during the stop, and we will probably run the serial number to make sure it hasn't been in the wrong hands at some point in it's life span.
NOT telling the LEO you are carrying could turn out to be a bad thing, especially if it is seen and taken as a threat by the LEO!
It's all good tho' as my main objective in my job is to go home at the end of my shift with the same amount of holes in my body that God gave me.

 

[fiveohhhstang]

Thanks for all of the advice, I appreciate it. I have nothing to hide, so telling them about my gun is no big deal to me. I just wasn't sure how to go about it. :beer:

 

[Outlaw99]

always tell them there is a weapon in the vehicle, offer your CCP with your license when he steps up to your window.

 

[N A Rush]

Most LEO's will hold on to the weapon during the stop, and we will probably run the serial number to make sure it hasn't been in the wrong hands at some point in it's life span.

This exactly why many states do NOT have a notification requirement!

Just because you are lawful owner of a handgun and have valid permit does NOT constitute PC for the removal of the handgun and to have the serial numbers run. As a matter of fact this is illegal in GA, State v. Jones (2008).

The Court of Appeals ruled that an officer does not have "carte blanch authority" to secure all weapons at a traffic stop. In order to justify a search of a vehicle for weapons, some conduct on the part of the occupants such as furtive movements or other indications of danger to the officer must be shown, and the officer must have an "objectively reasonable" belief that the occupants of a vehicle are "potentially dangerous."

 

[silver03svt]

Re-read your own post N A Rush. Nobody said anything about searching a vehicle in this thread. And great for GA for that law. In VA, I as a Trooper have every right to ask for the weapon and run the serial number. And 99 % of most LAW ABIDING CITIZENS do not have an issue with this. The only problems I have ever had are from people who have stolen handguns or have something to hide. The law is there to protect law-abiding people.
I have never forced anybody to give me their weapon after knowledge of the CCW. Most people gladly offer it up. I've even seized a stolen gun off an indivudual that he was carrying legally AFTER he had bought it from a private individual. He had a sales receipt for it and everything. I was able to arrest the person that sold it to him bc he was found to be seeling alot of stolen weapons.

 

[N A Rush]

Silver,

My post wasn't directly at you! Yes, I quoted a statement you made. That is why I only quoted the statement you said about other officers. I apologize if you took it that way!!!

OP, I also apologize since I am NOT a LEO. I have only done CSO work. Best advice, know the laws for your state or the state you are carrying in!

Re-read your own post N A Rush. Nobody said anything about searching a vehicle in this thread.

I re-read the post. I never called it a “search”, the web site I captured the text from called it a search, my mistake. I went to the actual case law, the Presiding Judge actually said “seize” and later “seizure.”

And great for GA for that law.

Please see my above comment that each state is different and its best to know your laws.

In VA, I as a Trooper have every right to ask for the weapon and run the serial number.

I believe in VA its required to inform an LEO you are concealed at the earliest possible opportunity, correct?

And 99 % of most LAW ABIDING CITIZENS do not have an issue with this. The only problems I have ever had are from people who have stolen handguns or have something to hide. The law is there to protect law-abiding people.

If the above statement is correct, then a law abiding citizen of VA would inform you of such. If not, then they are not law abiding and thereby hiding something. Otherwise, I would take exception to an officer searching/seizing w/o PC!

I have never forced anybody to give me their weapon after knowledge of the CCW. Most people gladly offer it up. I've even seized a stolen gun off an indivudual that he was carrying legally AFTER he had bought it from a private individual. He had a sales receipt for it and everything. I was able to arrest the person that sold it to him bc he was found to be seeling alot of stolen weapons.

Since the topic was broached, Correct me if I mis-read your post but didn’t you state that most LEO would hold onto the weapon during the stop? Again, correct me if I am wrong here as I am not an LEO or an attorney, but doesn’t this constitute as a second-tier encounter thereby violating the Fourth Amendment if the officer briefly "stops" or "seizes" a citizen without an articulable suspicion??? Articulable suspicion requires a particularized and objective basis for suspecting that a citizen is involved in criminal activity. (Citations omitted.) Brittian v. State, 257 Ga. App. 729, 731 (572 SE2d 76) (2002).

 

[fiveohhhstang]

It's no problem that you aren't an LEO, I only put that because I didn't want the opinions of a bunch of members who aren't educated on the topic. :beer:

State law does not mandate me to tell the officer I have a weapon so long as he/she doesn't see it and ask about it, however I think I will volunteer the information just to make sure there are no issues.

 

[carrrnuttt]

I have been pulled over before with a loaded handgun in my glove. Having it in your glove is not considered "concealed" in AZ, so I was OK either way despite my CCW, but I went ahead and actually held out both hands outside the window as the officer approached, while stating out loud that I had a loaded handgun in the glove.

The DPS officer [AZ highway patrol] had me roll down the passenger window, where he then reached into the glove to take out the weapon while confirming that that was the only weapon in my vehicle. He then went back to his vehicle and I assume checked out the gun's legalities, which I had no worries about. Afterwards, he simply issued me a warning for speeding, but he had me pop my trunk so he can place the handgun back there, which he placed in a resealable plastic bag. This was at 4:30 in the morning and the officer was alone, so I can only assume that he only gave me a warning because he felt relief for his safety by me declaring my weapon. Either that, or he felt bad for making me go through the trouble, since I did declare.

My personal advice in this matter is, if you have nothing to hide, is to go ahead and declare. You just NEVER know how any stop can turn out, and declaring might just avoid any SERIOUS and possibly tragic misunderstandings during the stop. It also emphasizes the fact that you are a lawful citizen who simply made the mistake that got you pulled over, and not a bad element.

 

[silver03svt]

There is no law that I am aware of in VA stating that a violator must be inform the LEO that they have a CCW or a weapon in the vehicle. But if I do happen to see any part of it and it is concealed it does make my senses more aware of the situation. Letting the LEO know ahead of time at the first opportunity actually tells me that maybe the person I have stopped is trying to be open and honest and law abiding.

As far as violating the Fourth Amendment by "seizing" the weapon really is being used out of context. My reasonable suspicion tured to probable cause when I stop and seize the driver, occupants, and vehicle for another violation of law. At that point a loaded weapon in the vehicle becomes a safety concern for me as the LEO. I haven't stopped the vehicle based solely on the suspicion of criminal activity. I stopped it because I have observed the driver or other occupant break the law. Also, there is a difference between asking a person if you can hold on to their weapon during the stop and taking it against their will. I have yet to have anybody with a CCW and being armed decline to let me hold on to it for the stop.

Weapon and gun laws differ from state to state, and VA has one of the toughest set of them in the books. However, OP, most states are starting to recognize and honor CCW's issued from other states. I'd do a little research though before going out of state packing.

 

[fiveohhhstang]

There is no law that I am aware of in VA stating that a violator must be inform the LEO that they have a CCW or a weapon in the vehicle. But if I do happen to see any part of it and it is concealed it does make my senses more aware of the situation. Letting the LEO know ahead of time at the first opportunity actually tells me that maybe the person I have stopped is trying to be open and honest and law abiding.

As far as violating the Fourth Amendment by "seizing" the weapon really is being used out of context. My reasonable suspicion tured to probable cause when I stop and seize the driver, occupants, and vehicle for another violation of law. At that point a loaded weapon in the vehicle becomes a safety concern for me as the LEO. I haven't stopped the vehicle based solely on the suspicion of criminal activity. I stopped it because I have observed the driver or other occupant break the law. Also, there is a difference between asking a person if you can hold on to their weapon during the stop and taking it against their will. I have yet to have anybody with a CCW and being armed decline to let me hold on to it for the stop.

Weapon and gun laws differ from state to state, and VA has one of the toughest set of them in the books. However, OP, most states are starting to recognize and honor CCW's issued from other states. I'd do a little research though before going out of state packing.

I rarely leave the state and I know which states will honor MT's permit, so I'm not worried about that. If I end up going on a trip I will most likely research the gun laws of each state I will be in to be sure.

 

[Chris_562]

*removed by moderator as the OP requested LEOs Only. That means only those verified by this site to be Full Time Sworn Law Enforcement Officers. Had you read the rules you would know that*