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"Fully built" 3.0L Duratec V6? Anyone?
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<blockquote data-quote="DemonSVT" data-source="post: 1480034" data-attributes="member: 435"><p>1. No. Bore only. </p><p>Both engines have the exact same crank forging and 79.5mm stroke (yes it revs FAST!)</p><p>Also the stock block & crank can support over 1200HP (IIRC Manny's 6.99 sec Cougar has 1400-1600 now? It's a TT 3L RWD drag car)</p><p></p><p>Increasing stroke will decrease reliability as well. </p><p>Though the amount you could get is relatively small.</p><p></p><p>Like I mentioned the stock clearances are minimal to begin with. Ford's new 3.5L Duratec has a completely different block in order to achieve the longer stroke. So even their "brainiacs" knew something. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>2. Not really. They are easy to tune and build a proper setup IMO. The key is deciding what your final goal is and then building a setup suited to your needs. I do not think it is really that difficult personally.</p><p>Matter of fact there are exponentially more choices for turbo designs now there even 5 years ago. (much less 10 or 15)</p><p>They are more efficient, more reliable, and easy to tailor to your setup.</p><p></p><p>3. For 600HP you will shorten your powerband because you will be dropping CR and running very high boost. It always takes longer to raise boost to a level at which the curves steadies out. (so to speak)</p><p>Running 3hp/l is always going to have drawbacks somewhere and power under the curve will be the first. No matter how fast you get the turbo to spool.</p><p></p><p>4. Porting will help power output. Not so much big power under the curve gains per se. Now the 01+ tumble port 3L heads verses the split port will help in that area.</p><p></p><p>Most F/I porting is "make it big" when you really don't want to alter the stock port shape more then cleaning the bad areas. The Duratec is not hindered by poor head design like many engines are.</p><p>You can check out my website for pictures of the oval port 3L heads.</p><p></p><p>5. The question becomes is several thousand dollars worth 50 HP/TQ or is 2psi more boost & 100rpm more "lag" (comparatively) worth it. </p><p></p><p>A larger engine needs a larger turbo. (no argument) Even if the turbo sizing matched the engine increase the "spool factor" is still slightly against you based on actual impeller/turbine weight size increase and moment of inertia.</p><p></p><p>6. You don't need to tell me about doing all the detail work and modifying everything and anything. I'm already well into that stage of fanaticism. ;-) </p><p></p><p>7. It's not the R&D but the custom one off parts. A cast crank will not survive. That's a proven fact.</p><p>A one off forged crank will cost a fortune.</p><p>My prices for rods & pistons are spot on for high quality products. I know how much the forged units cost that they already have the specs for. ($600 pistons & $1000 rods)</p><p></p><p>I personally just can't fathom spending that much money for a mere 500cc's. The cost value is astronomic.</p><p></p><p>I never asked what you plan to put the Duratec in. Hopefully not a FWD car. The CDW-27 is an excellent handling car but planting more the 200 wheels just isn't going to happen. Heck I had trouble planting the 2.5L and that had under 200 FWTQ. :shrug: </p><p></p><p>8. 7500rpm is as far as I would push it. That's provided you have Clevite bearings, 3M4Z oil pan, and 6qts of oil. (that's a full 3L - a 2.5L needs more)</p><p>The valvetrain can easily handle 8100rpm on a 200FWHP NA engine. Now boosted it hasn't been tested above 7500rpm (~300FWHP engine) but handled that fine as well.</p><p></p><p>There are better valve springs (ST220) They are about 10-15lbs greater seat pressure.</p><p></p><p>9. Glad to help (and trying to seem nicer)</p><p></p><p>Like I said there comes a point when several grand for just one-off custom parts alone just does not add up to the benefits.</p><p></p><p>Also there is the problem of block integrity loss when you bore out the 3L. The "estimate" was ~25% integrity loss to make it 3.2L The walls would be pretty thin!</p><p>That does not bode well for an engine being boosted.</p><p>Also the thinner the walls the less the heat sink and dissipation to the water jackets.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DemonSVT, post: 1480034, member: 435"] 1. No. Bore only. Both engines have the exact same crank forging and 79.5mm stroke (yes it revs FAST!) Also the stock block & crank can support over 1200HP (IIRC Manny's 6.99 sec Cougar has 1400-1600 now? It's a TT 3L RWD drag car) Increasing stroke will decrease reliability as well. Though the amount you could get is relatively small. Like I mentioned the stock clearances are minimal to begin with. Ford's new 3.5L Duratec has a completely different block in order to achieve the longer stroke. So even their "brainiacs" knew something. :) 2. Not really. They are easy to tune and build a proper setup IMO. The key is deciding what your final goal is and then building a setup suited to your needs. I do not think it is really that difficult personally. Matter of fact there are exponentially more choices for turbo designs now there even 5 years ago. (much less 10 or 15) They are more efficient, more reliable, and easy to tailor to your setup. 3. For 600HP you will shorten your powerband because you will be dropping CR and running very high boost. It always takes longer to raise boost to a level at which the curves steadies out. (so to speak) Running 3hp/l is always going to have drawbacks somewhere and power under the curve will be the first. No matter how fast you get the turbo to spool. 4. Porting will help power output. Not so much big power under the curve gains per se. Now the 01+ tumble port 3L heads verses the split port will help in that area. Most F/I porting is "make it big" when you really don't want to alter the stock port shape more then cleaning the bad areas. The Duratec is not hindered by poor head design like many engines are. You can check out my website for pictures of the oval port 3L heads. 5. The question becomes is several thousand dollars worth 50 HP/TQ or is 2psi more boost & 100rpm more "lag" (comparatively) worth it. A larger engine needs a larger turbo. (no argument) Even if the turbo sizing matched the engine increase the "spool factor" is still slightly against you based on actual impeller/turbine weight size increase and moment of inertia. 6. You don't need to tell me about doing all the detail work and modifying everything and anything. I'm already well into that stage of fanaticism. ;-) 7. It's not the R&D but the custom one off parts. A cast crank will not survive. That's a proven fact. A one off forged crank will cost a fortune. My prices for rods & pistons are spot on for high quality products. I know how much the forged units cost that they already have the specs for. ($600 pistons & $1000 rods) I personally just can't fathom spending that much money for a mere 500cc's. The cost value is astronomic. I never asked what you plan to put the Duratec in. Hopefully not a FWD car. The CDW-27 is an excellent handling car but planting more the 200 wheels just isn't going to happen. Heck I had trouble planting the 2.5L and that had under 200 FWTQ. :shrug: 8. 7500rpm is as far as I would push it. That's provided you have Clevite bearings, 3M4Z oil pan, and 6qts of oil. (that's a full 3L - a 2.5L needs more) The valvetrain can easily handle 8100rpm on a 200FWHP NA engine. Now boosted it hasn't been tested above 7500rpm (~300FWHP engine) but handled that fine as well. There are better valve springs (ST220) They are about 10-15lbs greater seat pressure. 9. Glad to help (and trying to seem nicer) Like I said there comes a point when several grand for just one-off custom parts alone just does not add up to the benefits. Also there is the problem of block integrity loss when you bore out the 3L. The "estimate" was ~25% integrity loss to make it 3.2L The walls would be pretty thin! That does not bode well for an engine being boosted. Also the thinner the walls the less the heat sink and dissipation to the water jackets. [/QUOTE]
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"Fully built" 3.0L Duratec V6? Anyone?
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