FRPP GT-40 345hp Crate Motor (Questions/Feedback)

[bandit_48032]

I have been shopping around for a Mustang for the past few years. I honestly can't say what car I'm gonna buy for sure. A 03/04 Cobra, Fox Body.....etc. I love the Fox's so much but with their age, abuse, and the rust I find on them around town, I get a little discouraged and depressed. It's hard to find a true gem for the right price. Anyways, enough of my rambling on......

Whenever I'm flipping through the Summit catalog I always come across the Ford Racing GT-40 345hp Crate Engine. I was wondering how many of you guys have swapped out your original engines for this crate motor.


Here is my list of questions.....

If you went back and did it all over again, would you buy this crate engine or just rebuild the original motor? (is it worth the money?)

How acurate is 345hp rating? Any dyno #'s?

Track times? (auto or manual)

This is a complete engine I can buy and have installed without having to buy aditional parts correct? (sorry for my ignorace, I'm not all that great with mechanics)

Any aditional feedback, comments, positives, negatives, would be greatly appretiated! I wanna know what I'm getting myself into.


If I decide to get a Fox I really do want to take care of it and make it last. I want it to be something that in 20 years people will still be saying....."ya, now thats a car!" haha, I'm sure you guys get what I'm hinting at. I wan't a car I can be sure of not not worry about. Putting in a crate motor I figure would probably be my 1st step of hopefully eliminating a lot of future mechanical problems and concern of something major going wrong, besides normal maintanance. I guess that and maybe a new tranny plus some other things....but I'll leave that for another thread! haha

I know I'll get great feedback here and I can't wait to read those comments!

 

[ShortThrow50]

you sound just like me dude. I got rid of my 03 cobra for my fox. I shopped for a while till i found my bone stock true gem of a fox. Only 65k original miles in mint condition. Even though the engine is in fantastic shape i always find my self thumbing through summit looking at those crate engines. Honestly, that is the motor i want to eventually get. Im pretty sure those numbers are accurate with that setup. If you just do the math with what its got. You can probably get better numbers depending on intake and manifold. also, my car is fast as shit now with the full exhaust i just did. Feels a lot stronger in the low than the terminator ever did. I could only imagine what this light car will feel like with all that power.

 

[bandit_48032]

you sound just like me dude. I got rid of my 03 cobra for my fox. I shopped for a while till i found my bone stock true gem of a fox. Only 65k original miles in mint condition. Even though the engine is in fantastic shape i always find my self thumbing through summit looking at those crate engines. Honestly, that is the motor i want to eventually get. Im pretty sure those numbers are accurate with that setup. If you just do the math with what its got. You can probably get better numbers depending on intake and manifold. also, my car is fast as shit now with the full exhaust i just did. Feels a lot stronger in the low than the terminator ever did. I could only imagine what this light car will feel like with all that power.

I hear ya man, I just have this thing for Fox Body Mustangs....it's just running through my veins! Every time I see one no matter what the condition I'm always gawking at them. It's just a shame I run into so many rusty beat down Fox's. Whenever I get lucky I'll see a really nice one and talk to someone about selling it but they're always way out of my price range or not even close to considering it. There is this older family down the road from me that has a shiny red 89-93 GT just sitting next to their garage. It's honestly been sitting there for about 7 years. Myself, and a good three of my friends have gone up to their house and talked to them about selling it but they’re just not interested. It’s just sitting there, wasting away!

I want an engine that’s gonna produce safe horsepower that I don’t have to worry about taking a crap on me. I would like to burry myself deep into the 12’s and even hit 11’s if I can but I’m wondering if any of this is possible with the GT-40 Crate Motor or if building the stock motor is the way to go. I would hate to buy the GT-40 Engine and then start swapping parts off of it left and right to get where I want to be. I want to run naturally aspirated. Nitrous and superchargers scare me unless they come straight from the factory. haha

 

[ShortThrow50]

always keep an eye on autotrader.com for foxes. thats how i got mine. I brought a truck and trailer up 100 miles away to fetch my fox. I think that that crate engine would be the perfect engine for the car. If i do that, I would deffinatley put all new shit under the hood. Chrome alternator, etc. Keep your eyes peeled man you will find your car

 

[bandit_48032]

always keep an eye on autotrader.com for foxes. thats how i got mine. I brought a truck and trailer up 100 miles away to fetch my fox. I think that that crate engine would be the perfect engine for the car. If i do that, I would deffinatley put all new shit under the hood. Chrome alternator, etc. Keep your eyes peeled man you will find your car

Thanks for the advice. I have been kind of half-a@@ trying to sell my 00 Formula and 03 Crown Victoria to come up with some extra cash. I'm also going to school so that takes up a lot of money right there. I'm not gonna be able to do a whole lot until I sell my Firebird, but I'm always looking for a good deal.

 

[buddha93]

You can find a clean Fox body, but be prepared to travel and spend a decent amount of cash. I flew to Florida to get mine.

The FMS crates are nice, but remember there are a few other companies assembling crates too, so shop around.

 

[bandit_48032]

The FMS crates are nice, but remember there are a few other companies assembling crates too, so shop around.

Ya, I know. Thats why I was hopeing I could get some feedback from people who have had experiance with this crate engine. I don't wanna make any potentially bad moves. I'm just trying to cover my ground and put one foot infront of the other. :read: :coolman:

 

[PJM99]

I like the FMS engines too.

 

[bandit_48032]

Anyone here have this crate motor in their car? :shrug:

 

[shiz302]

For the price, you could build a much better motor. Ford cylinder heads and their cams are old news.

 

[bandit_48032]

I just wanna have something safe, reliable, doesn't eat up the oil, and makes some power. I want it to still be around in another 20 years.

Thanks for the input.

 

[~Ray~]

I wouldn't waiste your $ on a Crate motor to be honest with you, besides the price it's alot of extra work. Just get a good set of Heads "AFR 165's" a good cam "non ford" a Decent intake, Injectors, Exhaust & Inlet system & you'll be making more power then that Crate motor & that's not mentioning half the stuff I just mentioned you'll have to buy anyways reguardless wich route you choose.

Secondly if you need to freshen up your shortblock just get some higher compression pistons & rings or stock crank bored or even a stroker kit as the block you got is the exact same one you'll get from Crate don't waiste your $ spend it right

 

[bandit_48032]

I wouldn't waiste your $ on a Crate motor to be honest with you, besides the price it's alot of extra work. Just get a good set of Heads "AFR 165's" a good cam "non ford" a Decent intake, Injectors, Exhaust & Inlet system & you'll be making more power then that Crate motor & that's not mentioning half the stuff I just mentioned you'll have to buy anyways reguardless wich route you choose.

Secondly if you need to freshen up your shortblock just get some higher compression pistons & rings or stock crank bored or even a stroker kit as the block you got is the exact same one you'll get from Crate don't waiste your $ spend it right

Thanks for the feedback! :rockon:

What can you tell me about the AFR heads? I know a lot of guys with the LS1 and LT1's swear by them around here. There is a guy that has the 165's on his notch back around here and it's pretty quick from what I understand.

I know a lot of guys with the Fox's use the Trick Flow Heads, at least thats what I'm always reading about in the magazines. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't AFR make a 185cc head package? I believe you need to make some modifications in order to run them though, do you know anything about it?

I don't wanna have to run race gas and it'll be a daily summer time driver. But like I was saying before I wanna bury myself deep into the 12's and even the 11's if I can do it safely un-aspirated.

 

[~Ray~]

Well the 185's require different pistons so if you don't plan to do anything to that just go 165's but yes the Trickflow heads are just as good just wichever you choose just make sure you get the lowest cc heads you can get, 58cc or lower, I would really recommend some higher compression pistons something to acheive 10.1 - 10.5 you'll be fine on pump gas but if not above will be fine & all you'll really need after that is gears, I'd go 3:55 or 3:27's.

 

[bandit_48032]

So how would I go about figuring out which pistons and everything I would need for this swap? Is it really complicated? I guess it has to do with a clearance issue doesn't it? I wanna get the most out of the car that I can ya know. If I'm gonna rebuild the motor do to high mileage I should probably do it right. Would AFR's customer serive be able to walk me through everything on the phone? I'm sure they'll be able to match me up with a cam and all that as well. Have you heard anything good about the AFR cams or do you have a different pref?

I have no mechanic experiance at all, I know what to do to these cars to make them fast from reading things on this site for a few years and picking up a lot of magazines, I just don't know how to do it safely and with a lot of the supporting mods! haha I'm sure you get what I'm talking about.

What do you think a fox should run with AFR 185cc Heads, an aggressive cam, full exhaust, intake, and 4.10's?

 

[~Ray~]

Well Probe make a good inexpensive piston http://www.probeindustries.com/Pistons/Pistons_SRS/Ford/Ford_302.htm

Depending on what heads you choose & what pistons you choose this will tell you your compression ratio. I would recommend the 64cc Twisted Wedge heads & Twisted Wedge Dome Top SRS Forged Pistons on a budget, that will give you a 10.3 Compression ratio wich I beleive would be good for you. I would also look @ the Twisted Wedge Stage 2 Cam for this aswell though if your not looking @ nothing to radical you could go with the stage 1 with maybe 1.7 rockers instead & If you decide to go AFR route you would go with the 61cc heads & Universal Domed Top SRS Forged Pistons. That will give you alittle bit higher compression ratio & alittle more power aswell on top of that the heads & the TrickFlow stage 2 would still be a good cam for that setup aswell.


I'd say you'd be around 375hp to the wheels or 425hp using Crates flywheel measurements & run high 11's or low 12's. As for gears, as I said I wouldn't go no higher then 3:55's I've used 3:73's, etc, etc & the difference between the two really isn't that much, 3:55's is alot on it's own & already way too short of gears & will make you tired of shifting.

 

[OldSkoolMC]

You can find a clean Fox body, but be prepared to travel and spend a decent amount of cash. I flew to Florida to get mine.

True words there.

You get what you pay for goes a long way when buying a fox. If there is a private seller asking 18k for a fox there is usually a reason for it. I also recommend if you do find one you love jump on it quick and don't wait. There is a large group of these buyer/sellers for the fox (the small car dealers). They jump on these cars that are sold local and auction them off. I persoanlly hate dealing with those guys. I looked at tons of junks before I found one of the lowest mile foxes in the country. You'll know when it's the right car.

 

[BLWN DSG]

something you might want to read. Tech article of how the got 400 hp out of a 302 5.0L HO with stock cam. They changed heads, rockers, and headers. That was it. Take a read, some really good info and tricks

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article087/A-P1.htm

The only reason you should get rid of the stock block is if you are looking at going over 500 rwhp. That is when the stock 5.0 block becomes a ticking time bomb. For the price of a GT-40 crate motor, you can build a beast of a 351W from the ground up with everything you want. If you want to build a motor and need a strong block that will take anything try www.dssracing.com their blocks and handle anything you can throw at them.

As for set-ups and times. This was my set-up when I last ran my fox...
-BBK Cai
-14* timing
-3.73 gear
-stock intake
-stock heads
-stock headers
-stock shifter
-cat-less H-pipe
-flowmasters dumped
-BBK subframes
-Eibach progressive rate springs
and ran a 8.9 in the 1.8 mile track on Cooper 225/55/16 street tires.

 

[NotoriousGT350]

If I was in the mood of selling my 89' GT....I thought about it. I'm the same way thumbing through the FMS catalog, JEG's, or Summit and seeing the crate motors:burnout: I've done a few things to my GT once I bought it with 160+K miles, but never modded the motor since it was rebuilt at 130K miles by a previous owner. Pretty much just new rings and bearings and just a K&N filter in the stock air box and thats it.

Now with 205+K miles, I've upgrade the cooling system as I wanted a real reliable fox with a 3-core HD radiator, 180* T-stat, new water pump, and autometer Phantom gauges(Oil psi and Water temp) to monitor GT. Last year I had my tranny rebuilt with a Spec 1 cluth and a month ago I have a new rack and pinion, Gabriel shocks and struts all around, clutch quadrant and cable, new front rotors, FMS aluminum d/s,3.73s, FMS differential cover, rear end totally rebuilt. Also charged up the A/C with R134(it's been converted) and have turn downs welded on.

Many wondered why I didn't spend any money on the motor instead. I replied that I just wanted something comfortable to drive, wouldn't have to worry about over heating, run the a/c whenever I want as this is my daily driver and the cobra is my toy.

My interior is in great shape and that is probably the one reason why I bought it b/c I knew the previous owners have kept up with it and keeping it clean, plus no mods to the motor means I could do whatever I want with it and put whatever parts I like. Here is a pic...

 

[phorty]

True words there.

You get what you pay for goes a long way when buying a fox. If there is a private seller asking 18k for a fox there is usually a reason for it. I also recommend if you do find one you love jump on it quick and don't wait. There is a large group of these buyer/sellers for the fox (the small car dealers). They jump on these cars that are sold local and auction them off. I persoanlly hate dealing with those guys. I looked at tons of junks before I found one of the lowest mile foxes in the country. You'll know when it's the right car.

Wow! 5,700 miles? I see you're in Chicago. Where did you find it? In my search, I found several really low mile ones in Chicagoland. I could have pulled the trigger on a 28K mile black '90 LX hatch that was 110% stock for $8K but had just found my 55K '93 Cobra right before.