front-to-rear brake bias help

P5Boy

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:waves: everyone,

I'd like to get ya'lls thoughts on my brake bias behavior changes after going with a CorteX track setup. I'm pretty happy with the CorteX stuff and the setup done by FlimFlam Speed in Richmond but I am now wondering about my brake behavior. The main reason is now it's opposite from what the brakes did before the mods. It might be me which is what I am really trying to determine, I don't know what I don't know. I (try to) do the driving. ;-)

For the first three years I tracked my GT500, Van helped me with beginners type stuff. Brakes, fluid, general questions stuff to be "safe" for getting into tracking my car. I was running Raybestos ST-43 pads at all 4 corners with stock Goodyear tires (and a stock car). I ran the stock rotors (thanks Steve for all the stock parts). I ran the Brembo LCF fluid. Did full bleeds after every weekend. Replaced the front rotors after 4 days of track time (e.g. about 2 hrs / day). Around the third year, Van suggested I know what my brake temps were. Not having any issues, just to know what they were. I ran the Alcon stickers on the fronts and consistently saw 420 (ish) deg F. I never put stickers on the rears because I usually got a whole season (or most of the season) out of a single set of rear pads and rotors. I rebuilt my calipers or bought new calipers from Steve in the off seasons.

For this year, I changed up stuff a lot. I've got the CorteX track version of their coil over setup, watts link, torque arm, LCAs and sway bar links. I am running FRPP Boss 302 front LCA with the delrins and MM bumpsteer kit. I also run the Eibach 36mm 3 position front and a stock early GT 18mm rear. I have ran both the FRPP Boss S/R ABS module and the original OEM ABS module. I am running Toyo R888R 305/30/19 at all 4 corners. My front bake temps are around 290 to 300 deg F and my rear brake temps are 420 deg F. I can tell the rears are now getting used big time compared to pre-CorteX setup.

About the only thing I could think of is the torque arm. The weight transfer / pitch is pretty much not happening like it use to. So my question is can a torque arm setup cause such a drastic change to the brake temps? From everything I've read, 300 deg F for Brembos is "cool" and not in the "normal" range. I haven't noticed pedal feel difference, the car is very different than it's stock form and I am still re-learning the car. Braking is one the areas where I am struggling to re-learn. Or maybe the first question should be are 300 deg F front caliper temps OK?

About the only reason I found (so far) to run the FRPP ABS Boss S/R module was that I have to disable both "modes" of traction control. In the turns, I was triggering the traction control kill (the 3 seconds of no power). The racing ABS module does this automatically on KOEO.

I'd appreciate any help. Thanks.

/allen
 

Bad Company

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Allen

From your photo you posted you're dealing with Kevin at FlimFlam in Richmond. I know a number of years ago he had a Mustang GT with the CorteX Racing system on it. That car went through front brakes rotors and calipers each weekend it went out. The driver was very aggressive, but I think he also won three championships in AI. The front brakes on that car would be glowing red after a few laps. You aren't generating any heat in yours. I also remember that car running the FRPP ABS Boss racing module. Something isn't right or you aren't using them to the fullest. Maybe you should ask Kevin what he thinks or get him to take a few test laps at VIR or Summit Point to see what is going on.

Where did you get your front tow hook? Does it install to the factory front crash bumper? I like the fact it doesn't require cutting a hole in the bumper cover.
 

P5Boy

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Hi Bad Company,

I am sure the car could use a better driver. I still haven't transitioned from the stock setup where I had to be very careful where I used WOT and now. My lap times do indicate that I am hustling the car around the track. I am slowing the car down from significant speeds and hitting threshold braking. But I won't argue that I have stuff to re-learn. My brake markers aren't applicable with this new setup.

Kevin helped with me with CorteX install / setup. I probably will try to catch him at a NASA event. See if he's up for driving it. Kevin will probably get the car for some other issues I am having.

I handle all of my brake maintenance. There's just so much to do and it's a function of costs (at some point) for me. I've made myself some wood tools to help me with caliper rebuilds. Then there's the after-every-day/event tasks. I also do full bleeds after every weekend. I also track caliper temps...

I was hoping some folks with much more experience with CorteX on heavy (not AI/AIX, I tip the scale with full tank and my fat a** at around 4,000 something lbs.) Mustangs or torque arms in general would chime in with knowledge. I'm just not experienced enough to know if this is the new normal. My only experience to tap is a stock 2013 GT500 on Goodyears.

The front (and rear) tow hook is made by Blowfish Racing. It's the "gen 2" style. It attaches to the crash bumper (via two piece boxed cage). I do like the Blowfish stuff, it is nice and sturdy. You do have to remove some of the dense foam 5 mph bumper or just leave out the foam parts if you don't drive on public streets (like me).
 

Black Cobra '99

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My first thought was exactly what BC said, you're not using your brakes. IIRC on my car I see 600F+ on the fronts and close to that in the rear, that is with ducting. One thing to consider is, the traction control on the 11+ cars is never really off, so you might want to run exclusively with the FRPP ABS module on track.
The corner weights might also be off, so thats worth to check.

Keep in mind, brake bias will not change significantly unless you change the barking system, i.e bigger brakes in the rear. You can check by disabling the ABS and go into full lock event on a straight line, the side that locks first should be the fronts, if it doesn't then you have a serious problem.
 

Black Cobra '99

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Check out Track Mustang Online, they specializes in BOSSes but they are really knowledgeable about Mustangs and a lot of them run Cortex stuff.
 

P5Boy

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BC and BC99 got me thinking and I did leave out one more brake related change. I installed Racing Brake stainless-steel piston and hi-temp seal kit here:
Shelby GT500 Complete Front Rebuild Components - Two Calipers

Those SS pistons are pretty badassery but maybe they are impacting heat transfer to the caliper body?

I do have to put more effort into my braking skills b/c of the car changes.

I'll try out TMO, but SVTP is a pretty welcoming place and I like it here. You guys rock and always have good discussions until delving into what the 2019 Shelby GT500 will be. :trollface: ;-)
 

Black Cobra '99

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BC and BC99 got me thinking and I did leave out one more brake related change. I installed Racing Brake stainless-steel piston and hi-temp seal kit here:
Shelby GT500 Complete Front Rebuild Components - Two Calipers

Those SS pistons are pretty badassery but maybe they are impacting heat transfer to the caliper body?

I just got the same kit actually but hadn't tried it yet. I didn't realize you meant brake caliper temps, so you might not actually have a problem and just like you said it could be the SS pistons. To be clear, I was referring to rotor temps in my previous post.

I'll try out TMO, but SVTP is a pretty welcoming place and I like it here. You guys rock and always have good discussions until delving into what the 2019 Shelby GT500 will be. :trollface: ;-)

No doubt, SVTP is also my favorite. So many knowledgable people and great technical discussions, TMO is just as good only they are more track focused.
 

tomshep

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I can't give you hard numbers, but I used to run griggs t/a and panhard bar on a 95 cobra. I do remember that higher rear brake temps were expected due to the increased downforce on the rear wheels. You might want to read over on their website and see if you get any meaningful info. The pads you are running will also change your temps, how they bite, and how long you are on them.

Tom
 

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