Ford Performance and lack of Performance Numbers

[tt335ci03cobra]

Boss owners who've bought s550 gtpp's have put this to test, and rest. I'm not going to spend my time digging up all the posts from various sites, but google searching will lead to many of them.

I agree that comparing lap times from different days with different drivers is a refutable metric. Scientific method would be to limit variables. Also, just reading weather conditions of a given day doesn't go far enough. It may have rained heavy the day(s) prior to a test day with clear or possibly better conditions than a day being compared to.

Basically, unless it's same day, same driver, the findings aren't really absolute, just basically informative of how that car runs in xyz conditions.

From drives I've been on as a passenger, the s550 is quick, but not as stiff and direct as a boss(ls). That said, it may honestly be quicker, they just drive/feel very different, but both are fast. There is more compliance and comfort in the s550 even with a track package.

Having driven a boss and s550, I can easily say the s550 gtpp is potentially faster than a boss 302. I haven't personally driven an ls so I can't comment, but it's spitting distance close from experiences I've had.

Consider this, if you allow different drivers to conduct a test of lap times, one may be great at toe heel downshifting, and the other may be nervous or unwilling to do so, or just not efficient at it. That alone is 2-3 seconds a lap. Do both drivers have the same credentials and skill level? There are too many variable to go about lap times like that. The document would have 75 asterisks explained at the end of the data

*when Bill was on point
* when joe wasn't sick
* when Bill wasn't hungry
* when joe has on good shoes
* when Bill was excited
*when joe was tired

... No thanks.

 

[black92]

Results from Road and Track can be found in here: http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...2016-Shelby-GT350R!!!&p=15085543#post15085543

 

[FromGTtoSVT]

The amount of mental retardedness in this thread is simply astounding.

To the OP, you are the guy who stands at a car show in a GT350 t-shirt, wearing a GT350 hat and jacket with a GT350 sign hanging from under the hood who talks to everyone about how fast their car is but has never driven it anywhere except to a car show. Please, don't buy the car...you don't deserve it.

To the rest of the people bashing Ford, don't you understand we are approaching the apex of the muscle wars? It's all downhill from here. What would Ford gain from posting #'s and times on a N/A car that's meant to do its talking on the track. So who cares if the Viper ACR or Hellcat makes 250hp more than a GT350, does that mean they are better cars? Nope.

Ford is a master with thier marketing, wanna know how I know I am right? Take a drive to your local Ford dealer and try and buy a GT350 or GT350R ....let me know how that goes.

And oh yeah, someone made a comment about the Viper and Hellcat selling well? Selling so well the Viper had to have a big price reduction and sales are so awesome on the hell cat, dodge actually cancelled all the remaining 2015 orders. #knowyourfacts

The internet is to blame for this thread, it honestly makes me sad for the future of our hobby.

 

[bpmurr]

The amount of mental retardedness in this thread is simply astounding.

To the OP, you are the guy who stands at a car show in a GT350 t-shirt, wearing a GT350 hat and jacket with a GT350 sign hanging from under the hood who talks to everyone about how fast their car is but has never driven it anywhere except to a car show. Please, don't buy the car...you don't deserve it.

To the rest of the people bashing Ford, don't you understand we are approaching the apex of the muscle wars? It's all downhill from here. What would Ford gain from posting #'s and times on a N/A car that's meant to do its talking on the track. So who cares if the Viper ACR or Hellcat makes 250hp more than a GT350, does that mean they are better cars? Nope.

Ford is a master with thier marketing, wanna know how I know I am right? Take a drive to your local Ford dealer and try and buy a GT350 or GT350R ....let me know how that goes.

And oh yeah, someone made a comment about the Viper and Hellcat selling well? Selling so well the Viper had to have a big price reduction and sales are so awesome on the hell cat, dodge actually cancelled all the remaining 2015 orders. #knowyourfacts

The internet is to blame for this thread, it honestly makes me sad for the future of our hobby.

While I do wear the GT350 shirt I got for free at Carlisle, I've also taken all my cars to the track. In addition I've daily driven a few of them and my GT350 will be a daily. Sure I do enjoy talking to people about it at a cars and coffee or formal car show. Nothing wrong with that. I would have appreciated more info directly from Ford in regards to the performance. I'm not alone and certainly respect people who don't care and want to find out on their own. No need to make incorrect generalizations about people or tell them they don't deserve something.

 

[jtfx6552]

The amount of mental retardedness in this thread is simply astounding.

To the OP, you are the guy who stands at a car show in a GT350 t-shirt, wearing a GT350 hat and jacket with a GT350 sign hanging from under the hood who talks to everyone about how fast their car is but has never driven it anywhere except to a car show. Please, don't buy the car...you don't deserve it.

To the rest of the people bashing Ford, don't you understand we are approaching the apex of the muscle wars? It's all downhill from here. What would Ford gain from posting #'s and times on a N/A car that's meant to do its talking on the track. So who cares if the Viper ACR or Hellcat makes 250hp more than a GT350, does that mean they are better cars? Nope.

Ford is a master with thier marketing, wanna know how I know I am right? Take a drive to your local Ford dealer and try and buy a GT350 or GT350R ....let me know how that goes.

And oh yeah, someone made a comment about the Viper and Hellcat selling well? Selling so well the Viper had to have a big price reduction and sales are so awesome on the hell cat, dodge actually cancelled all the remaining 2015 orders. #knowyourfacts

The internet is to blame for this thread, it honestly makes me sad for the future of our hobby.

You have it backwards. It is the lug nut waxer crowd that doesn't care about a cars real performance.

Wanting to know how a performance car actually performs is somehow bad?

And no offense to the guys who aren't, but there are a huge percentage of "concours" Lug Nut waxer type Shelby owners. No way to know for sure, but it seems to me the majority of the reason you can't walk into a dealership and buy a GT350 is because of those guys. It seems the actual track guys are locked out. It's hard to pay ADM then burn up the car on track. The LNW (Lug Nut Waxers) pay ADM, stick them in their garage and wait for BJ 2035...

 

[hognutz]

The amount of mental retardedness in this thread is simply astounding.

To the OP, you are the guy who stands at a car show in a GT350 t-shirt, wearing a GT350 hat and jacket with a GT350 sign hanging from under the hood who talks to everyone about how fast their car is but has never driven it anywhere except to a car show. Please, don't buy the car...you don't deserve it.

To the rest of the people bashing Ford, don't you understand we are approaching the apex of the muscle wars? It's all downhill from here. What would Ford gain from posting #'s and times on a N/A car that's meant to do its talking on the track. So who cares if the Viper ACR or Hellcat makes 250hp more than a GT350, does that mean they are better cars? Nope.

Ford is a master with thier marketing, wanna know how I know I am right? Take a drive to your local Ford dealer and try and buy a GT350 or GT350R ....let me know how that goes.

And oh yeah, someone made a comment about the Viper and Hellcat selling well? Selling so well the Viper had to have a big price reduction and sales are so awesome on the hell cat, dodge actually cancelled all the remaining 2015 orders. #knowyourfacts

The internet is to blame for this thread, it honestly makes me sad for the future of our hobby.

ha ha welcome to the uniformed that you complain about.


what do you think happed to the people that wanted the first hellcats last year. they were just on the showroom. ADM, long waits, the automatic was constantly on constraint. those orders that they canceled that your so informed about. some of those were sold orders they just could not fulfill them. For example I had to go manual or my order would have been canceled. they did not have enough auto's.

Then again I am sure you know more about it than I do since you didn't buy one.


here is a fact. 7168 hellcats were made in 2015. when was the last time a ford special edition sold 7000+ units??? answer 2008.
So is 7168 bad? I am sure GM and ford would be happy to move 7168 for a special edition mustang or Camaro.


now viper sales have been and always will be horrible. everybody loves to talk about them but nobody buy's them.

 

[hognutz]

You have it backwards. It is the lug nut waxer crowd that doesn't care about a cars real performance.

Wanting to know how a performance car actually performs is somehow bad?

And no offense to the guys who aren't, but there are a huge percentage of "concours" Lug Nut waxer type Shelby owners. No way to know for sure, but it seems to me the majority of the reason you can't walk into a dealership and buy a GT350 is because of those guys. It seems the actual track guys are locked out. It's hard to pay ADM then burn up the car on track. The LNW (Lug Nut Waxers) pay ADM, stick them in their garage and wait for BJ 2035...

this is so true. when I am selling one of my cars and I find 5 year old cars with 200 miles I can't comprehend it. I was selling my 07 z06 in 2012 and there was a 2006 on ebay with 168 miles. it like the guy bought it as a 1:1 dicast to keep in the garage. when I sold my 2013 zl1 a couple months back there were 3 on ebay with under 500 miles

 

[ON D BIT]

Cancellation of orders shows that want and marketing have worked too well. If only they could get that with the rt and srt as well.

 

[bpmurr]

You have it backwards. It is the lug nut waxer crowd that doesn't care about a cars real performance.

Wanting to know how a performance car actually performs is somehow bad?

And no offense to the guys who aren't, but there are a huge percentage of "concours" Lug Nut waxer type Shelby owners. No way to know for sure, but it seems to me the majority of the reason you can't walk into a dealership and buy a GT350 is because of those guys. It seems the actual track guys are locked out. It's hard to pay ADM then burn up the car on track. The LNW (Lug Nut Waxers) pay ADM, stick them in their garage and wait for BJ 2035...

this is so true. when I am selling one of my cars and I find 5 year old cars with 200 miles I can't comprehend it. I was selling my 07 z06 in 2012 and there was a 2006 on ebay with 168 miles. it like the guy bought it as a 1:1 dicast to keep in the garage. when I sold my 2013 zl1 a couple months back there were 3 on ebay with under 500 miles

You guys are spot on. I've never understood the desire to buy a car and barely drive it. It's the same cycle for every special edition Mustang. The "concours" crowd buys them to sit and take to a few car shows hoping that 25 years down the road it's worth big money at auction. They then either grow impatient as the car depreciates or have a life event forcing them to sell. The cars then tend to go to an owner that really drivers the cars at the track as intended.

Ford will be the first to tell you that very few special edition Mustangs see track time.

 

[FromGTtoSVT]

You have it backwards. It is the lug nut waxer crowd that doesn't care about a cars real performance.

Wanting to know how a performance car actually performs is somehow bad?

And no offense to the guys who aren't, but there are a huge percentage of "concours" Lug Nut waxer type Shelby owners. No way to know for sure, but it seems to me the majority of the reason you can't walk into a dealership and buy a GT350 is because of those guys. It seems the actual track guys are locked out. It's hard to pay ADM then burn up the car on track. The LNW (Lug Nut Waxers) pay ADM, stick them in their garage and wait for BJ 2035...

Excellent point, I'd say that 90% of the Shelby owners I know fall into the LNW category.

ha ha welcome to the uniformed that you complain about.


what do you think happed to the people that wanted the first hellcats last year. they were just on the showroom. ADM, long waits, the automatic was constantly on constraint. those orders that they canceled that your so informed about. some of those were sold orders they just could not fulfill them. For example I had to go manual or my order would have been canceled. they did not have enough auto's.

Then again I am sure you know more about it than I do since you didn't buy one.


here is a fact. 7168 hellcats were made in 2015. when was the last time a ford special edition sold 7000+ units??? answer 2008.
So is 7168 bad? I am sure GM and ford would be happy to move 7168 for a special edition mustang or Camaro.


now viper sales have been and always will be horrible. everybody loves to talk about them but nobody buy's them.

I wouldn't ever want to own a fat cat, so your dig is moot. Sweet job by Dodge to take orders on cars it couldn't build, solid company.

and p.s. I am pretty sure Ford made more than 7000 GT500's between 2013 and 2014.

 

[BlownAway03]

The amount of mental retardedness in this thread is simply astounding.

To the OP, you are the guy who stands at a car show in a GT350 t-shirt, wearing a GT350 hat and jacket with a GT350 sign hanging from under the hood who talks to everyone about how fast their car is but has never driven it anywhere except to a car show. Please, don't buy the car...you don't deserve it.

To the rest of the people bashing Ford, don't you understand we are approaching the apex of the muscle wars? It's all downhill from here. What would Ford gain from posting #'s and times on a N/A car that's meant to do its talking on the track. So who cares if the Viper ACR or Hellcat makes 250hp more than a GT350, does that mean they are better cars? Nope.

Ford is a master with thier marketing, wanna know how I know I am right? Take a drive to your local Ford dealer and try and buy a GT350 or GT350R ....let me know how that goes.

And oh yeah, someone made a comment about the Viper and Hellcat selling well? Selling so well the Viper had to have a big price reduction and sales are so awesome on the hell cat, dodge actually cancelled all the remaining 2015 orders. #knowyourfacts

The internet is to blame for this thread, it honestly makes me sad for the future of our hobby.

Dodge cancelled Hellcat orders because so many dumbass dealers placed orders they weren't allocated. If you're gonna be a smartass, at least know what you're talking about. And of course it's hard to get a GT350 right now. That only happens with like every hot new car on the market. Hellcat, GT500's, C7 Stingray, Z06's are all hard to get when they're first released. The hype soon dies and the craziness ends, just as it will with this car. Some of you guys must really be some hard core fanboys. How can anyone dispute that Ford has done a worse job marketing and delivering this car than its peers in recent history. Of course it'll sell right now. There's pent up demand and they aren't making them in large numbers.

 

[hognutz]

Excellent point, I'd say that 90% of the Shelby owners I know fall into the LNW category.



I wouldn't ever want to own a fat cat, so your dig is moot. Sweet job by Dodge to take orders on cars it couldn't build, solid company.

and p.s. I am pretty sure Ford made more than 7000 GT500's between 2013 and 2014.

yes they made like ~4600 13's and ~5200 14's but your twisting the argument like people do on this site. you taking two years of production to claim some hollow victory over production numbers over one year of another car. It's like mustang owners have to compete over everything. well it got more hp, ohh wait not it doesn't, well it's faster, ohh not wait not its not, ohh well it sells more, oh wait it actually isn't. well they built more in two years than the other company did in 1 year victory!

 

[krt22]

Seriously guys, who gives two shits how many hellcats they made and how boonjangled the allocation process was for them.

The hell cat will beat the GT350 on the street, the GT350 will run circles around it on the track, two different cars, targeting two different segments of the car guy population

 

[purtstang]

I am one of the lucky people that got a hellcat and flipped it before I knew the hype would run out and turned a good profit, only to order in a new Shelby GT350 with the track pack. I will say the Shelby is the car I have always wanted ford to build and it excites me, the Hellcat not so much.

 

[BlownAway03]

I am one of the lucky people that got a hellcat and flipped it before I knew the hype would run out and turned a good profit, only to order in a new Shelby GT350 with the track pack. I will say the Shelby is the car I have always wanted ford to build and it excites me, the Hellcat not so much.

I sure wish I'd gotten one to flip. Actually, the Hellcat is one of the only cars I've seen still command above MSRP pricing into the 2nd model year (not counting exotics). They get a lot of hate, but obviously somebody likes them.

 

[93 347 Cobra]

I like Ford's policy of not officially stating numbers. The Hellcat marketing hype had every ignorant redneck Mopar fan saying the Hellcat was a 10-second ride and low 11s on radials.

The reality was that it took hundreds of passes in very low DA conditions to achieve that figure on an auto car. Nobody ever talked about the manual. FCA pre-empted the disappointing mag test results to generate hype.

Let the car's performance speak for itself. Don't steal thunder from the magazines and the lucky owners who take early deliveries. Quoting hero times makes a manufacturer look desperate.

 

[01LightningGal]

You mean like "Ring" times that a certain manufacturer likes to throw around??

 

[bpmurr]

I like Ford's policy of not officially stating numbers. The Hellcat marketing hype had every ignorant redneck Mopar fan saying the Hellcat was a 10-second ride and low 11s on radials.

The reality was that it took hundreds of passes in very low DA conditions to achieve that figure on an auto car. Nobody ever talked about the manual. FCA pre-empted the disappointing mag test results to generate hype.

Let the car's performance speak for itself. Don't steal thunder from the magazines and the lucky owners who take early deliveries. Quoting hero times makes a manufacturer look desperate.

The Hellcat times SRT provided proved to be true. It just took some time for people to master the car. Just like pretty much any other car.

 

[ON D BIT]

I sure wish I'd gotten one to flip. Actually, the Hellcat is one of the only cars I've seen still command above MSRP pricing into the 2nd model year (not counting exotics). They get a lot of hate, but obviously somebody likes them.

Wait a minute. So it's alright for you to ask more than msrp when selling a used car but when a dealer asks more than msrp on a new car they are cheaters and scum with no morals! I understand now! It's ok for you not for them.

 

[93 347 Cobra]

The Hellcat times SRT provided proved to be true. It just took some time for people to master the car. Just like pretty much any other car.

They did, but those are the hero passes on the auto cars. No mention of the manual. Quoting hero passes to generate hype looks desperate.