Finally!!! "judge rules in favor of motorist who flashed his headlights

SHOLANDO

Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
898
Location
Winter Park (Just outside of Orlando)
Finally, this made it to a court in Florida, now the police can BACK-OFF!!

flashing headlights: Sanford judge rules in favor of motorist who flashed his headlights - Orlando Sentinel


A judge in Sanford ruled Tuesday that a Lake Mary man was lawfully exercising his First Amendment rights when he flashed his headlights to warn neighbors that a deputy had set up a speed trap nearby.

That decision is another victory for Ryan Kintner, 25, who sued theSeminole County Sheriff's Officelast year, accusing it of misconstruing a state law and violating his civil rights, principally his right to free speech.

He was ticketed Aug. 10 by a Seminole County deputy, but Kintner alleges the officer misapplied a state law designed to ban motorists from flashing after-market emergency lights.

Circuit Judge Alan Dickey earlier ruled that that state law does not apply to people who did what Kintner did, use his headlights to communicate.

On Tuesday the judge went a step further, saying people who flash their headlights to communicate are engaging in behavior protected by the U.S. Constitution.

"He felt the police specificially went out of their way to silence Mr. Kintner and that it was clearly a violation of his First Amendment free speech rights," said his attorney, J. Marcus Jones of Oviedo.

Jones has filed a similar but much broader suit in Tallahassee against the Florida Highway Patrol.

A hearing in that case is scheduled next month.

"This stuff is fun," Jones said after Tuesday's hearing.

Each suit asked that police agencies be ordered to halt writing those tickets. The highway patrol stopped voluntarily, awaiting the outcome of the suit. So have theSeminole County Sheriff's Officeand other agencies.

In addition to Kintner's civil suit against the sheriff's office, he also is fighting the ticket. It is still pending in county court in Sanford.

The officer also ticketed him for running a stop sign, saying Kintner had pulled beyond a stop bar before coming to a complete halt.

In an interview in August, shortly after filing suit, Kintner said, "I felt an injustice was being done. … I have nothing against officers … keeping speeding down, but when you cross a line and get into free speech, I feel it's gone too far."

According to his suit, Kintner was home Aug. 10 when he saw a deputy park along a street and pull out his radar gun. Kintner then got in his car, drove a couple of blocks away, parked and pointed his vehicle at oncoming traffic and began flashing his lights.

He was ticketed a short time later.
 

Digital

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
3,414
Location
Miami, FL
We need people with time and money like this to get grants. That's awesome. I hope he gets a chunk of cash.
 

CPRsm

Active Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
4,400
Location
San Diego, Ca
^^ Seems that way. If the cop hadn't given the ticket to protect his revenue collection, it wouldn't have wasted tax dollars in the first place. Game of cat and mouse. The mouse won one!!!
 

BRNG ITT

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
2,856
Location
TEXAS
Someone brought up an interesting question about this and another case today at work. Let's say that a person knows that his neighbor is selling marijuana out of his home. That same neighbor sees LEOs setting up down the street for a drug raid. Would that neighbor be within his 1st amendment rights to knock on the dealers door and let him know what's going on so that he can flush his stash? Some would argue that both incidents would be a form of obstruction of justice.
 

BRNG ITT

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
2,856
Location
TEXAS
How is it everyone has this point of view? I don't see it as "revenue collection."

You (or anyone else) breaks the law, you pay the price. So much for personal responsibility.

Goes along with the whole, "why are cops giving people tickets when there are murders happening everyday" attitude. You know, because every LEO is either a homicide detective, or can tell when a serious crime is going to go down.
 

mcdover

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
3,191
Location
Alabama
The way I see it is like this: The cops are tasked with ticketing speeders in order to compel them to follow the speed limits. The guys flashing their lights are accomplishing the same thing, just not taking their money or wasting their time.
 

Planter

Banned
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
15,554
Location
In the 5280'
yeah, because officers don't have anything better to do than sit in their cop cars and write people tickets, and there's no bad guys out there raping, robbing, killing, dealing dope to kids, or molestors doing nasty things to children.

speeding tickets, big crime, big money, top priority for sure. its nice to know my tax dollars go to pay Barney Fife to sit on his duff behind a radar gun and write a ticket.

:bored:
 

BRNG ITT

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
2,856
Location
TEXAS
The way I see it is like this: The cops are tasked with ticketing speeders in order to compel them to follow the speed limits. The guys flashing their lights are accomplishing the same thing, just not taking their money or wasting their time.

Two different intentions. The flashing of headlights is intended to slow you down long enough to keep you from getting a ticket. Once people pass the the cop, then they most likely speed back up. Issuing tickets is designed to penalize people for breaking the law, and then possibly change their driving habits. So guess what, if I am speeding and get caught, I know the rules, so I'm the one wasting my time and my money.
 

BRNG ITT

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
2,856
Location
TEXAS
yeah, because officers don't have anything better to do than sit in their cop cars and write people tickets, and there's no bad guys out there raping, robbing, killing, dealing dope to kids, or molestors doing nasty things to children.

speeding tickets, big crime, big money, top priority for sure. its nice to know my tax dollars go to pay Barney Fife to sit on his duff behind a radar gun and write a ticket.

:bored:

How many times have you driven down the street and seen people being raped, robbing, killing, dealing dope to kids, or molestors doing nasty things to children?
Don't get mad because cops aren't everywhere to stop all major crime before it happen just like in the movies.

:bored::bored:<----look, I'm bored twice as much as you, so I guess I win.
 

Planter

Banned
Joined
Feb 23, 2010
Messages
15,554
Location
In the 5280'
How many times have you driven down the street and seen people being raped, robbing, killing, dealing dope to kids, or molestors doing nasty things to children?
Don't get mad because cops aren't everywhere to stop all major crime before it happen just like in the movies.

:bored::bored:<----look, I'm bored twice as much as you, so I guess I win.

no I get tired of having my taxpayers dollars paid at the rate of $18+ an hour to write speeding tickets, when that cop could be better served to be out serving warrants and getting criminals off the streets, serving deadbeat moms and dad's with warrants for failing to pay child support, at least that's doing something productive.

I'm all for a cop pulling someone over who is speeding while he's doing his job and patrolling, driving around to and from calls. but I have a serious issue with a cop just finding a dark spot, and sitting there on the clock, and waiting for someone to come along so he can pull them over, write a ticket and then go back to doing the same thing. that's not what we pay the police for. Even more magnified when all these police departments are whining about budget crunches, and paying overtime and they don't enough manpower, and they can't afford to pay for more officers because they're low on funds.

speeding tickets should really only be handed out in cases where someone is driving like a moron, and weaving in and out of traffic creating a hazard for everyone else, or is ridiculously over the speed limit, like 10+ mph, or flying through a residential area or school zone.

Makes me wonder what Sanford PD was doing the night GZ shot TM. If there were any cops running radar, when they could have been possibly patrolling and been closer than the officers that responded and were on the way, maybe they could have gotten there before things escalated. just a speculative theory preponderance, but worthy nonetheless.
 

BRNG ITT

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
2,856
Location
TEXAS
no I get tired of having my taxpayers dollars paid at the rate of $18+ an hour to write speeding tickets, when that cop could be better served to be out serving warrants and getting criminals off the streets, serving deadbeat moms and dad's with warrants for failing to pay child support, at least that's doing something productive.

I'm all for a cop pulling someone over who is speeding while he's doing his job and patrolling, driving around to and from calls. but I have a serious issue with a cop just finding a dark spot, and sitting there on the clock, and waiting for someone to come along so he can pull them over, write a ticket and then go back to doing the same thing. that's not what we pay the police for. Even more magnified when all these police departments are whining about budget crunches, and paying overtime and they don't enough manpower, and they can't afford to pay for more officers because they're low on funds.

speeding tickets should really only be handed out in cases where someone is driving like a moron, and weaving in and out of traffic creating a hazard for everyone else, or is ridiculously over the speed limit, like 10+ mph, or flying through a residential area or school zone.

Makes me wonder what Sanford PD was doing the night GZ shot TM. If there were any cops running radar, when they could have been possibly patrolling and been closer than the officers that responded and were on the way, maybe they could have gotten there before things escalated. just a speculative theory preponderance, but worthy nonetheless.

Hey, I'm right there with you. I know that there are more violent crimes being committed than speeding, and that there many more important things that need to be done. However, I really don't see LEOs being handed stacks of warrants to serve that would keep them occupied for entire shifts. And let's be honest, in the area you live compare the number of LEOs on the force and how many speed traps you see on a regular basis? Probably very small, percentage wise. Every time an issue comes up with speeding tickets, suddenly, that's the only thing that cops do all day long, except for beating homeless people to death and profiling everyone else.

In regards to TM and GZ, weren't the cops on the scene within something like 7-9 minutes from GZ placing the call to 911?
 

Hmbre97

Eaton powered
Established Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
3,619
Location
Austin, TX
Two different intentions. The flashing of headlights is intended to slow you down long enough to keep you from getting a ticket. Once people pass the the cop, then they most likely speed back up. Issuing tickets is designed to penalize people for breaking the law, and then possibly change their driving habits. So guess what, if I am speeding and get caught, I know the rules, so I'm the one wasting my time and my money.

And you don't think people speed back up after passing a speed trap or a cop that has someone pulled over?
 

BRNG ITT

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
2,856
Location
TEXAS
And you don't think people speed back up after passing a speed trap or a cop that has someone pulled over?

Never said that. I was speaking in terms of the effect it is intended to have on those that actually get pulled over.

Since we are making assumptions, you don't think that people go right back to what they were doing illegally after the cop has cruised past them in their neighborhood?
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Messages
21,079
Location
USA
How is it everyone has this point of view? I don't see it as "revenue collection."

You (or anyone else) breaks the law, you pay the price. So much for personal responsibility.

There are many laws that are simply set up with the aim of "revenue collection." Don't think because a law has been passed that its a righteous one. Whether its at the local or national level, we have many laws trying to create "a criminal" and aimed at fleecing your pocketbook. Its not even an issue of personal responsibility. Its an issue of creating an overburdening, legalistic society where you're virtually trying to criminalize the most benign things and behaviors.
 

Hmbre97

Eaton powered
Established Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
3,619
Location
Austin, TX
Never said that. I was speaking in terms of the effect it is intended to have on those that actually get pulled over.

Since we are making assumptions, you don't think that people go right back to what they were doing illegally after the cop has cruised past them in their neighborhood?


So police only have an affect on the person they pull over and ticket is what you're saying. Gotcha.
 

32ValveRom

Don't mess with Teksids
Established Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
3,989
Location
Florida
Idk, I just don't see speeding as that big of a deal. I mean running reds or failing to yield are things that'd more than likely cause an accident. Plus, I remember hearing somewhere (could've been Top Gear) that over 90% of car accidents have nothing to do with speeding
 

BRNG ITT

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
2,856
Location
TEXAS
So police only have an affect on the person they pull over and ticket is what you're saying. Gotcha.

No, I am not saying that, nor did I say that in any post.
Not sure what angle you're trying to take here in order to instigate an argument, but your two posts have implied that drivers aren't influenced by speed traps, and that they are influenced by speed traps. Either way, pick a side and hook 'em horns.
 

Users who are viewing this thread



Top