fair tax plan

[DBK]

Why wouldnt people buy products if they have and extra $700+ a month to spend?
I know i would (.)

Exactly.

 

[bbp42d]

:nono:

I think 10% is more acceptable. You can pay more if you want.

Tax reduction and simplification would result in a system that does not punish success and create and economic explosion.

I am all for it.

well put :beer:

 

[Top_Fuel]

The main reason why this could never work in our society is because our whole economy is driven by consumption.

Check out the website and/or read the book. That is ususally people's first reaction when the read about a sales tax. They think, "there's no way I can afford anything if it was marked up 23% tomorrow."

Prices for goods will actually go down, so they won't be outrageously expensive even with a sales tax on them...

How much do pre-tax prices for goods and services go down under the FairTax?

All goods and services already contain the embedded costs of the current tax system in their prices. When these embedded taxes are removed, prices come down. Dale Jorgenson, Ph.D., former chairman of the Economics Department at Harvard University, has projected an average producer price reduction of 22 percent for goods and services in just the first year after the adoption of the FairTax. In addition, the FairTax lowers compliance costs by an estimated 95 percent and the removal of these costs will force prices down even lower.

 

[Top_Fuel]

Why wouldnt people buy products if they have and extra $700+ a month to spend?
I know i would (.)

Bingo. How'd you like it if your next paycheck had ZERO withholding...including Social Security!?!? That's the way it was in this country not that long ago...

 

[cyberbuba]

Have read the book and have listened to Boortz on this topic for sometime now. Outstanding concept and firmly believe it can work.

 

[svt32v99]

Check out the website and/or read the book. That is ususally people's first reaction when the read about a sales tax. They think, "there's no way I can afford anything if it was marked up 23% tomorrow."

Prices for goods will actually go down, so they won't be outrageously expensive even with a sales tax on them...

My main beef is that there are so many caveats to having this system actually function properly. Particularly the embedded costs due to taxation, they would have to disappear. I just don't see the federal, state and local governments doing this.

Lets look at the real issue here; all tax plans are designed to limit the pocket book of the federal, state and local governments. Its going to take an act of God for the people of the government to actually take interest in cutting off their own livlihood. I see the only way for that to happen is by some sort of revolution. Until then, a flat tax is the closest option we have to making things fair once again.

 

[bigdog93lx]

yes it is a very big task but IMO must be done

 

[Rdnckhoops]

Boortz is the man. Listen to him everyday on am 600 Ky. They are actually going to take the plan before congress mid 2nd qtr next year I believe. Haven't read the book yet but from listening to him it sounds like a step in the right direction. Go to the website as stated before and read through some of the info, and sign the petition.

 

[ON D BIT]

I think 30% way to high. More like 10-15%. It Would also help if we cut government spending to since we spend way to much money as it is. less government is good

yes it is high. but you would not have 30%-40% going to goverment for income taxes. remember, today we have to pay 30% income tax to the goverment, some more income tax to the state, plus sales tax, plus additional taxes.
with only a sales tax of lets 30% and make 40k a year. lets say you spend 20k a year this includes cars, housing, food, and fun. you would only be paying 30% of the 20k or $6,000. in todays world your spending 30% in taxes on 40k income or $12,000. plus then you still have to pay additional sales tax(6%) on the 20k that you spent or $1,200. lets add it up.

30% sales tax - 40,000(income)-20,000(living expenses)-6,000(taxes)= $14,000 left over.

todays taxes - 40,000(income)-12,000(income tax)-20,000(living expenses)-1,200(sales tax)= $6,800 left over.

 

[LogiWorld123]

If only the Republican administration (That includes Congress) wouldn't spend so much, then we could work on getting lower taxes...

 

[black10th vert]

I'm glad to see this thread is moving again. I hope more people get invovled in getting this bill passed. Please get the book and read up on it. Wouldn't it be nice not to spend so much time filling out tax forms?

 

[LogiWorld123]

I'm glad to see this thread is moving again. I hope more people get invovled in getting this bill passed. Please get the book and read up on it. Wouldn't it be nice not to spend so much time filling out tax forms?

It'd be really nice if the government lived more within its means instead of running up a defecit!

To put it in different terms- you don't fix a leaky faucet by decreasing the size of the pipe. You fix the leak.

 

[0TriZzlePhatRid]

Do you know how much money is pissed away on the IRS?? Billions and billions.

Now, the way the tax system works is you are taxed, then you can invest money. With the Fairtax, you invest with tax free money, which in turn makes you rich!

If you dont understand it, read the book.

 

[LogiWorld123]

Do you know how much money is pissed away on the IRS?? Billions and billions.

Compared to the other hundreds of thousands of billions by the rest of the government, big deal.

Now, the way the tax system works is you are taxed, then you can invest money. With the Fairtax, you invest with tax free money, which in turn makes you rich!

Sounds alot like propaganda. Get rich!

If you dont understand it, read the book.

You don't understand that the greater problem is super high government spending on things they shouldn't. You are looking at the water pipe, and not the damn faucet.

 

[svt32v99]

Uh oh, resident asshole has shown up.

 

[LogiWorld123]

Uh oh, resident asshole has shown up.

Aw did I ruin the lil party here with a bigger issue?

How nice of you to violate the rules of the forum, surely a stellar feat.

 

[Top_Fuel]

My main beef is that there are so many caveats to having this system actually function properly.

Check out the book. I'm not saying this system is perfect, but it has most (if not all) of the bases covered when it comes to people's concerns/complaints/questions. I can't do it justice trying to defend everyone's concerns here.

I see the only way for that to happen is by some sort of revolution.

Well, when was the last time a New York Times #1 best-seller was a book about serious tax reform? ;-) A grass-roots revolution is the only way serious tax reform is going to happen. Or we can wait until Ted Kennedy brings it up for a vote? :shrug:

...a flat tax is the closest option we have to making things fair once again.

The book has that covered, too. ;-)

What about the flat tax? Would it be better and easier to pass?

The flat tax and the FairTax share some important similarities. They are both flat-rate taxes that are neutral with respect to savings and investment. The flat tax, however, retains the invasive income tax administration apparatus and can easily revert to a graduated, convoluted mess, as it has many times over many years.

Very few people really understand the flat tax. Its authors will tell you it is a consumption tax that uses the income tax system for implementation. Only an academic or government bureaucrat would dream up a consumption tax that needs the invasive income tax apparatus for its application, when one can simply have a retail sales tax and reduce the bureaucracy by 90 percent or more! In addition, a large part of the burden of the flat tax – the business tax – will remain hidden from people in the retail price of goods and services.

In contrast, the FairTax is simple, easy to understand, and visible. It cannot be converted into an income tax.

Under a flat tax, individuals would still file an income tax return each year similar to today’s 1040 EZ. While this is a simple postcard, the record keeping required to fill in the blanks is still long and burdensome. Under the FairTax, individuals would never file a tax return again, ever! Under the flat tax, the payroll tax would be retained and income tax withholding would still be with us. Under the FairTax, the payroll tax, which is a larger and more regressive tax burden for most Americans than is the income tax, would be repealed. Under the FairTax, what you earn is what you keep. No more with-holding taxes; no more income tax.

Notwithstanding flat tax proponents’ honorable intentions, income tax reform has been less than a success in the past. Congress has tried to reform the income tax again and again, with the result being greater complexity and, generally, higher rates. The problem is the income tax, and it is time to stop tinkering with it.

Flat tax supporters have made major political attempts to pass their reform, including the efforts of former Majority Leader Dick Armey and presidential candidate Steve Forbes, and yet, their efforts have not progressed politically for several years. With every debate, the flat tax loses grassroots and congressional support to the FairTax. It is time to junk the entire income tax system and start over with a tax system that is more appropriate for a free society and better able to meet the needs of the information age.

 

[black10th vert]

It'd be really nice if the government lived more within its means instead of running up a defecit!

To put it in different terms- you don't fix a leaky faucet by decreasing the size of the pipe. You fix the leak.

This book isn't about gov. spending, It's about a easier and fairer way to pay taxes,thus the nameTHE FAIR TAX BOOK. If you want to discuss gov. spending,start your own thread.

 

[LogiWorld123]

This book isn't about gov. spending, It's about a easier and fairer way to pay taxes,thus the nameTHE FAIR TAX BOOK. If you want to discuss gov. spending,start your own thread.

No its not, but fixing the tax system comes after fixing the people spending the taxes. And as I feel it is relevant to the topic, and a public forum, I can post here all I damn want. Nobody is forcing you to reply though, bub!

I am sorry if you believe the FairTax (which is a great idea, I don't slam it!) is going to magically fix the entire system of taxing in America because all it will do is, well nothing in the big picture. Yes it will eliminate the paperwork expected of people (which is really just reading and transcribing, I do harder paperwork transcribing sales numbers at the restaurant), yes it will simplify the process of taking your money, but then what? Maybe under the plan, Congress gets even more money to spend on random shit. Is that progress?

Sure you might have lower prices, and goods (but even then, who says manufacturers will pass on savings to consumers? Oil companies don't even do that) but still not going to fix anything other than the paperwork that you and the IRC does every April. Big deal. Taxes will be never fair unless everyone is exactly equal in all scopes, and that could not even happen in a communist country. The current tax system is a bunch of malarky, but its not just the rates that are the problem. The trustees of the tax money need to stop spending it all!

I can see it now...

Congress approved a .01% increase to the sales tax today, after previous increases of .02% and .01% the past two quarters citing increased spending as the main factor....

"We simply cannot operate the basic pillars of government with these numbers, we must increase the rate to continue fulfilling our constitutional duties", said Joe Smith (R), chariman of the Taxing Committee.

 

[wizbangdoodle]

Taxes are a complex and confusing subject, and that is just the way the government wants it. If it makes sense to us common folk then it just can't be right. ;-) And before you bash on the rich read the following, I think it is a good analogy. You might have seen it before.

"Suppose that every day 10 men go to a restaurant for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If it was paid the way we pay our taxes, the first four men would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1; the sixth would pay $3; the seventh $7; the eighth $12; the ninth $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

The 10 men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20. Now dinner for the 10 only costs $80."

The first four are unaffected. They still eat for free.

Can you figure out how to divvy up the $20 savings among the remaining six so that everyone gets his fair share? The men realize that $20 divided by 6 is $3.33, but if they subtract that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being paid to eat their meal.

The restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same percentage, being sure to give each a break, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so now the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of $59.

Outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," complained the sixth man, pointing to the tenth, "and he got $7!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!"

"That's true," shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor."

The nine men surrounded the tenth man and beat him up. The next night he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They were $52 short! And that, boys, girls and college instructors, is how America's tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes should get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table any more."