Who has the biggest gain going to E85 from 93oct?
E85 Gain?
- Thread starter bobster
- Start date
FI you can pick up 50+.
Ftw isn't e85.. it's it's own blend of special race Fuel.
Not a smart option for FI.
Unless you're happy with running like 16 degrees of timing
My procharged 12 gt went from 634whp 577wtq on 93 to 702whp 657wtq on e85. The only changes being a fuel system and added timing.
Yeah, 100 octane or so is terrible for FI. Keep smoking bro... Plus you don't have to add all that fuel. More than one way to get there.
e85 is more or less equal to c16 race gas. If you think an 100 octane tune is close to e85 then you need to do some research. Bro.
Progressive timing scheme of 19 to 22 degrees of timing instead of 15 degrees on 91 octane. Also bumped boost 1 pound. It made 701 with same boost.
Um, ok... YOU said 93 octane bro.
Obviously you know nothing about E85. bro. Mmmkay Bro
Yup it definitely can be done.
I'm still on pump fuel and make over 700 at the wheel. BUT my tuning window is extremely small, I can only fill up at one station, and I have to log every single time I fill up. There is very little margin for error.
Very hard to find that shit around here, haven't seen a station that actually has it in the pumps around here in years. There is one fueling place around here that keeps in drums, but not in the tanks/pumps. On the other hand I can throw a rock and hit a station carrying E85. There are 4 within 5 miles of my house.
Just my 2 cents.
At the time I was playing with methanol on mazdaspeed3 which has a very high fuel pressure that basically atomizes the fuel and injects it as a mist resulting in finer and complete combustion and by actually doing so it was heating it even more as oppose to regular fuel system operating at 40-70psi vs 1700-2100psi. The more pressure is generated the hotter it gets, so by adding the methanol straight in to a tank of fuel in concentration of roughly 5% total I was able to reduce knock on sunny hot days from 7-9 degrees all the way to 0.3-0.7 which gave me a higher threshold to tune and get away with more power at the end. Also I think since turbo is another logic behind creating a heat and a lot of it, it would be wise to reduce the temp somehow and if we think about methanol then it would sound like a perfect solution to those heat soak moments. I have tried performing the same on buddies bmw 335i and actually 2 different cars which have very similar system of having HPFP pumps with 0 effect at least nothing that was worth noting.
Our systems arent particularly compatible with say more than 25% of alcohol in general if at all, so running 85%+ will cause some type of degradation to rubber and plastic pieces to an extent and over a prolonged period of time. Will there be a significant increase in power I am sure you could gain 25-35whp by upping up a timing and maybe leaning it out but mind you this coyotes hate running lean only rich at least thats what I have witnessed. The problem I am seeing is that we are soo limited to the amount of air ingested due to stock restrictions and abilities of the head throughout a given cycle of evolution, even though alcohol in itself is enriched with oxygen we are still limited by our compression. Say we are running 13-14 comp then we will have a higher chance of having detonation on same gas we were able to use before just fine and with good results on stock compression, then yes I agree here we have to use a more resilient gasoline and alcohol would most likely be very suitable due to its ability to have a higher threshold/octane and cooling properties to alleviate same. Can we squeeze out fully what that fuel has to offer out of our stock comp and heads with just a tune, probably not even close to outweigh the risk factors of fuel system degradation post alcohol consumption:nono:. I think if you are expiriencing a pinging with an aftermarket tune then I think its time you look for a new gasoline and pump around your area or consider adding 3-4 l of alcohol to a tank and hitting a dyno to see the real benefit and adjusting accordingly. I think nowadays the only gas station in Vancouver bc that has up to 10% ethanol is Chevron meaning the standarts are allowing this concentration for most vehicles with no long term negative effects, so I am still puzzled why soo many people stray away from them saying its bad for your car and performance when in fact the corn is actually a totally awesome and cheap alternative to race gas vs buying a torco(I have tried it myself long time ago and personally cant comment or justify 18$per small bottle).
so is there a way to increase your performance with alcohol definitely yes, relatively cheap and somewhat accessible if you are in states i am assuming. Do I see it as a huge gain on NA stock comp engines, not soo much. Forced induction, high compression definitely yes.
At the time I was playing with methanol on mazdaspeed3 which has a very high fuel pressure that basically atomizes the fuel and injects it as a mist resulting in finer and complete combustion and by actually doing so it was heating it even more as oppose to regular fuel system operating at 40-70psi vs 1700-2100psi. The more pressure is generated the hotter it gets, so by adding the methanol straight in to a tank of fuel in concentration of roughly 5% total I was able to reduce knock on sunny hot days from 7-9 degrees all the way to 0.3-0.7 which gave me a higher threshold to tune and get away with more power at the end. Also I think since turbo is another logic behind creating a heat and a lot of it, it would be wise to reduce the temp somehow and if we think about methanol then it would sound like a perfect solution to those heat soak moments. I have tried performing the same on buddies bmw 335i and actually 2 different cars which have very similar system of having HPFP pumps with 0 effect at least nothing that was worth noting.
Our systems arent particularly compatible with say more than 25% of alcohol in general if at all, so running 85%+ will cause some type of degradation to rubber and plastic pieces to an extent and over a prolonged period of time. Will there be a significant increase in power I am sure you could gain 25-35whp by upping up a timing and maybe leaning it out but mind you this coyotes hate running lean only rich at least thats what I have witnessed. The problem I am seeing is that we are soo limited to the amount of air ingested due to stock restrictions and abilities of the head throughout a given cycle of evolution, even though alcohol in itself is enriched with oxygen we are still limited by our compression. Say we are running 13-14 comp then we will have a higher chance of having detonation on same gas we were able to use before just fine and with good results on stock compression, then yes I agree here we have to use a more resilient gasoline and alcohol would most likely be very suitable due to its ability to have a higher threshold/octane and cooling properties to alleviate same. Can we squeeze out fully what that fuel has to offer out of our stock comp and heads with just a tune, probably not even close to outweigh the risk factors of fuel system degradation post alcohol consumption:nono:. I think if you are expiriencing a pinging with an aftermarket tune then I think its time you look for a new gasoline and pump around your area or consider adding 3-4 l of alcohol to a tank and hitting a dyno to see the real benefit and adjusting accordingly. I think nowadays the only gas station in Vancouver bc that has up to 10% ethanol is Chevron meaning the standarts are allowing this concentration for most vehicles with no long term negative effects, so I am still puzzled why soo many people stray away from them saying its bad for your car and performance when in fact the corn is actually a totally awesome and cheap alternative to race gas vs buying a torco(I have tried it myself long time ago and personally cant comment or justify 18$per small bottle).
so is there a way to increase your performance with alcohol definitely yes, relatively cheap and somewhat accessible if you are in states i am assuming. Do I see it as a huge gain on NA stock comp engines, not soo much. Forced induction, high compression definitely yes.
is a 100 octane bad for FI definitely not. Blower will yield all that air we need to create extra compression and bigger flame by pushing those rods and pistons harder and faster by mixing with fuel and 100 octane can withstand all that detonation that could happen with poor quality gasoline or lower grade. Win win-yes, but wayyy too expensive, I think curent prices for c108 is roughly 5$ per liter, when you can buy 99% pure methanol from sunoco for 1.89 which apparently has a 114-118 ROM rating of octane and ability to cool the charge air and enrich the combustion with more oxygen per given unit.
PS totally off the topic and it might get heated lol. Till these day I am still puzzled why soo many tuners suggest running lower compression and running bigger turbines to create more psi when you are actually creating a higher temperature charge air by comressing it more. The hotter the charge air the less oxygenated it gets and more prone to detonation it will be as soon as we get out of the efficiencie levels of the turbo. I allways thought that it would actually equal to same outcome by creating a same forged engine with higher compression and having fewer less psi meaning you wont be running your turbo to the max at all times thereby somehow prolonging the life of it. I guess this topic is more technical and involves a lot more variables so I will leave it alone:whine:
PS totally off the topic and it might get heated lol. Till these day I am still puzzled why soo many tuners suggest running lower compression and running bigger turbines to create more psi when you are actually creating a higher temperature charge air by comressing it more. The hotter the charge air the less oxygenated it gets and more prone to detonation it will be as soon as we get out of the efficiencie levels of the turbo. I allways thought that it would actually equal to same outcome by creating a same forged engine with higher compression and having fewer less psi meaning you wont be running your turbo to the max at all times thereby somehow prolonging the life of it. I guess this topic is more technical and involves a lot more variables so I will leave it alone:whine:
Doesn't the F150 5.0 use E85? Looked up a few fuel hose parts and both the Mustang and F150 use the same fuel hose/line.
My first tank of 91? Timing down to 10 degrees. Knock sensor hit +4.9. Yay!
No E85 unless I wanna pay 450$ for a drum. Sunoco 100 is 560$ for a drum. Oh and no 93 pump available either.
I envy some of you guys.
No E85 unless I wanna pay 450$ for a drum. Sunoco 100 is 560$ for a drum. Oh and no 93 pump available either.
I envy some of you guys.
I can do a little over 700rwhp on 93... e85 over 1100rwhp
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