e10

[04sleeper]

The ideal lambda wot power zone for ethanol is very similar to gasoline. If I'm wrong maybe Kevin will pipe in.

Actually E85 has a much wider "Sweet Spot" vs Gasoline. On a boosted car, I have seen from as much as .7514-.8743 Lambda make about the same power. (Yes I know .8743 sounds lean but on E85 it has been OK) On a N/A car I would think the same applies but I don't have as much experience with N/A motors.

 

[Kwik03DSG]

Actually E85 has a much wider "Sweet Spot" vs Gasoline. On a boosted car, I have seen from as much as .7514-.8743 Lambda make about the same power. (Yes I know .8743 sounds lean but on E85 it has been OK) On a N/A car I would think the same applies but I don't have as much experience with N/A motors.

Is that because of Ethanol's burn characteristics? Or its assumed "cooling effects?"

Im really curious about this fuel... Im looking into going return and E85 in the next year...

 

[04sleeper]

Is that because of Ethanol's burn characteristics? Or its assumed "cooling effects?"

Im really curious about this fuel... Im looking into going return and E85 in the next year...

I would believe both. Ethanol also has a very tight molecular bond that is very hard to break.

 

[ClubVenom1]

Actually E85 has a much wider "Sweet Spot" vs Gasoline. On a boosted car, I have seen from as much as .7514-.8743 Lambda make about the same power. (Yes I know .8743 sounds lean but on E85 it has been OK) On a N/A car I would think the same applies but I don't have as much experience with N/A motors.

Thanks Kevin. I kind of figured E85 had a "wider sweet spot" but I didn't have that exact info right in front of me.
I think the cooling effects of ethanol help to run a leaner burn. It pulls more heat out of the cylinders and burns cooler than unleaded gasoline.

 

[lostboykev]

Yes. You would normally want the stoich in the tune set to he fuel you are running.

Although I have found there to be less fuel spikes with returnless systems leaving stoich @ 14.64 and rescaling the injector slopes and engine displacement accordingly. I have tried it both ways and it seems to work better for some reason. :shrug:

So if I were to adjust injector slopes accordingly for e10 AND adjust my open loop afr table for 14.1~ and 12.1~ at WOT (blending numbers of course), then would that be doubling the effect? Or adjusting the high and low slopes were the calibration step so that my afr tables would be accurate?

 

[decipha]

No fuel table changes are needed, leave the lambses alone.

You can either reduce the stoich afr scalar which is a global fuel multiplier or reduce the slopes which is a global fuel multiplier, either will give you more fuel.

widebands, narrowbands, and all ECUs/PCMs read and calculate in LAMBDA

if you ditch the whole AFR idea and stick with LAMBDA you can never go wrong

1.000 = stoich, idle, cruise, and light accel up to say half throttle (up to 75% PERLOAD)

0.875 = 90% to 100% PERLOAD = WOT N/A and 0 vac / 0 boost on a boosted setup

0.800 = 120+ PERLOAD (~3lbs of boost and up)

the above of course assumes you are scaling perload (PRLDSW==0 enabling FN035) and that youve dialed in FN035 Peak Load to that of the engines ASPIRATION curve (i.e. 0 vac / 0 boost = 100% PERLOAD throughout the RPMs)

this link has ALL the details you will ever need to know and some

http://info.efidynotuning.com/fuel101.htm

 

[lostboykev]

No fuel table changes are needed, leave the lambses alone.

You can either reduce the stoich afr scalar which is a global fuel multiplier or reduce the slopes which is a global fuel multiplier, either will give you more fuel.

widebands, narrowbands, and all ECUs/PCMs read and calculate in LAMBDA

if you ditch the whole AFR idea and stick with LAMBDA you can never go wrong

1.000 = stoich, idle, cruise, and light accel up to say half throttle (up to 75% PERLOAD)

0.875 = 90% to 100% PERLOAD = WOT N/A and 0 vac / 0 boost on a boosted setup

0.800 = 120+ PERLOAD (~3lbs of boost and up)

the above of course assumes you are scaling perload (PRLDSW==0 enabling FN035) and that youve dialed in FN035 Peak Load to that of the engines ASPIRATION curve (i.e. 0 vac / 0 boost = 100% PERLOAD throughout the RPMs)

this link has ALL the details you will ever need to know and some

http://info.efidynotuning.com/fuel101.htm

I don't believe I have that ability with my tuning software (Delta Force Commando). What i know that is available is stabilized open loop fuel table, high/low slope injector control. I have adaptive turned off for now. What I did was take the solution of .94 * slope value

Low- 30.9050 * 0.94 = 29.9892
High- 20.7848 * 0.94 = 19.5368

This was to accommodate for e10.

Now that I've done this would I ever touch the stabilized open loop fuel table? Here is a screen shot of my table. Black letters is what is currently set and blue letters were stock file. (P.S I neglected to mention this is a 2001 Mustang 3.8L)

 

[decipha]

that fuel table is incorrect, you need to set everything from 2.2 TP_REL and below back/to 14.7

and set everything at 2.44 TP_REL and above to 12.8

go re-enable adaptives, you should never disable them

 

[lostboykev]

that fuel table is incorrect, you need to set everything from 2.2 TP_REL and below back/to 14.7

and set everything at 2.44 TP_REL and above to 12.8

go re-enable adaptives, you should never disable them

I have long term fuel trim disabled for now and my high and low slopes are .94 times their original value. You recommend to change back target afrs. I guess I still don't quite understand why. I'm still putting my head around how releasing more fuel with slope change will affect in target afrs on that table. If more fuel but a target of 14.7 actually bring it down closer to what e10 it optimal at? And that me changing the table to target even richer afrs would add on to my slop adjustment making it oversensibly rich?

 

[decipha]

correct, the table is being displayed incorrectly in the software, all ford ecus are in lambda, your software is showing 14.7 = 1.000

The fuel table in a ford ecu is INCAPABLE of adding fuel, it is simply a targeted lambda.

You CANNOT adjust the fuel table to compensate for different fuels.

If you swap to e85 your fuel table must still request 14.7 AFR because your software is showing it incorrectly. No fuel table changes are required.

all the details you will ever need to know in great depth are in that fuel write up link i posted above.