E-85 gasoline......anyone run it? PHR sort of says go for it

[8urvett]

I was reading a editoral article in the newest issue of Popular Hotrodding and it was discussing the use of E-85. Since it's 85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline, it supposed to have a octane rating of 105 to 113. This is what it states in the article. If you have a blower or turbo it would allow you to run more boost or if your NA maybe more compression? It doesn't state however that you should not use it. I realize they have flex fuel cars that are supposed to be designed for this fuel, but if it really is sort of racey blend of ethanol why couldn't we run it on a totally stock car, like putting in blue thunder or what ever brand of racing gas they have at the track!?
Any thoughts? Anyone even care!? :beer:

 

[bouncer18]

my question is where can i get it to try it

 

[Cobra Kai]

Valve seals tend to deteriote in cars not designed for it.

 

[Torch10th]

WHOA WHOA!!!

Don't put this stuff in your car. You need to do some more research on how the stuff works and what needs modified for it to work properly.

Normal stoichometric(sp?) fuel curves need altered when using this type of fuel. Where you can run 14.7:1 AFR during cruise mode all day long with gasoline, E-85 is different. It realyl needs an AFR around 9:1 to work properly.

not to mention the stuff has a high alcohol content which tends to eat away plastics (like some of your fuel lines) and carode metal (like your gas tank) if not properly treated.

There's a reason the information directly from the E-85 manufacturers includes a list of vehicles that can use it, because those not designed for it will have problems.

 

[99cobrablack]

Most of the premium around here is going to e-85. Torch10th is right about most of that. My brothers bronco II got a tankful somehow and we had to pull the tank and put a new pump in it, among several other fuel issues. The rubber on the pump was just melted. I don't know what I'm going to do when the only non-ethanol fuel I can put in is 89:bash:

 

[muhtalicbloo]

WHOA WHOA!!!

Don't put this stuff in your car. You need to do some more research on how the stuff works and what needs modified for it to work properly.

Normal stoichometric(sp?) fuel curves need altered when using this type of fuel. Where you can run 14.7:1 AFR during cruise mode all day long with gasoline, E-85 is different. It realyl needs an AFR around 9:1 to work properly.

not to mention the stuff has a high alcohol content which tends to eat away plastics (like some of your fuel lines) and carode metal (like your gas tank) if not properly treated.

There's a reason the information directly from the E-85 manufacturers includes a list of vehicles that can use it, because those not designed for it will have problems.

^^^^^^^^+1^^^^^^^^ ...what he said

 

[8urvett]

Thanks Torch10th, I figured it was to good to be true!! The article seems a little mis-guiding and a bit reckless. So is it possible to run the proper fuel lines and what not to run this type of fuel or is it just something to totally stay away from. I am just curious as to weather or not a letter to the editor of PHR is in some sort of standing order to be more specific to it's readers.

 

[Torch10th]

Oh you could definitely set a car up to run it. Basically you would need an alcohol style fuel system with treated metals etc. You'd then also need a tune specific for the E-85. Really though, at this time it's not going to be much cheaper if at all. There's a huge difference between an AFR of aroun d 14.7:1 at cruising and nearly 9:1. That's why you use more E-85 per mile then regular fuel. So any savings you may see at this time would be negated by the fact that you don't get as many miles per gallon.

 

[VirtualSVT]

If you want better fuel economy buy a beater.

 

[REX-RACER]

I'm not going against what Torch10th said here 'cuase he sounds like he knows more about it than I do, but this topic came up in a discussion on my local board and a guy who's a Ford Tech said the problem w/ fuel lines and stuff is not an issue for 2000+ year cars. Apparently all Ford cars model year 2000 and newer have internals capable of running E85 fuel.

The problem, as most folks have pointed out, is in the tune. Becuase the energy yield of alcohol is different than that of gasoline ( lower ), you'll actually get reduced gas milage making any savings at the pump negligable. Of course you can tune for it, I would assume it would essentially be like tuning for an alcohol dragster.

This isn't gospel, it's just what I hear . . .

 

[Torch10th]

I'm not going against what Torch10th said here 'cuase he sounds like he knows more about it than I do, but this topic came up in a discussion on my local board and a guy who's a Ford Tech said the problem w/ fuel lines and stuff is not an issue for 2000+ year cars. Apparently all Ford cars model year 2000 and newer have internals capable of running E85 fuel.

The problem, as most folks have pointed out, is in the tune. Becuase the energy yield of alcohol is different than that of gasoline ( lower ), you'll actually get reduced gas milage making any savings at the pump negligable. Of course you can tune for it, I would assume it would essentially be like tuning for an alcohol dragster.

This isn't gospel, it's just what I hear . . .

THe fuel lines themselves are probably alright as long as you're running some actual gasoline through them every couple tanks. It's the pumps, any non-metal lines, injectors etc. that I'd be worried about.

You are correct though the car would need to be setup in the same manor that you would setup a car to run on alcohol...which is basically what you're doing anyway.

 

[kingCOBRAsvt_99]

will the pump say E-85 on it or will it just say that it has "this gasoline continues some ethanol" seems like every pump in the DC area here all have those stickers on them now PLEASE HELP what am I supposed to fill up on? BTW this will be for my Non supercharged car. Supercharged car is getting race gas only

 

[Torch10th]

The stations around my area that sell it have a complete pump dedicated to the stuff.

Most fuel these days contains either 10% or 15% Ethanol already. That's what the stickers are for to advise you of this fact. Don't worry about that though it's not goign to hurt yoru street car.

 

[01vert]

Ethanol cost about $2.50 a gallon wholesale due to government subsidies so with this and the extra fuel needed, you may not see any benefit except for the higher octane. Sounds like it is worth investigating though

 

[kingCOBRAsvt_99]

The stations around my area that sell it have a complete pump dedicated to the stuff.

Most fuel these days contains either 10% or 15% Ethanol already. That's what the stickers are for to advise you of this fact. Don't worry about that though it's not goign to hurt yoru street car.

Phew good stuff. I figured they would prob have to have a whole pump dedicted to it as its new stuff and theres plenty cars out there OTHER THEN H.O. motored cars that prob could be harmed by using it as well. I was worried for a minute tho.

 

[Torch10th]

If you really wanted to save some money I'd purchase an old diesel VW (or really anythign diesel) and make your own bio-diesel.

There was a story on the local news here about a guy that purchased a very ncie older Toyota 4 runner with a blown engine. He replaced it with a toyota diesel and makes his own bio-diesel in his garage. He estimated his fuel cost is about $.70 per gallon.

 

[Cobra Kai]

Actually, cars built after 2000 are built to tolerate Ethanol blends of only 10%.

 

[gotwood]

If you really wanted to save some money I'd purchase an old diesel VW (or really anythign diesel) and make your own bio-diesel.

There was a story on the local news here about a guy that purchased a very ncie older Toyota 4 runner with a blown engine. He replaced it with a toyota diesel and makes his own bio-diesel in his garage. He estimated his fuel cost is about $.70 per gallon.

How do you make bio-diesel? That would realy be worth looking into.

 

[Torch10th]

Here ya go...make you're own bio-diesel

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_make_biodiesel

 

[Torch10th]

There's other ways I'm sure here. The report I saw on teh news stated something about waste cooking oil from local resaurants and a small amount of race fuel. I'll do some more searching.