DPFE - Ford's most evil spawn to date *rant and advice for my SVT mengs*

[006]

This shit piece of ****ing contraption almost got my kids and I killed.

If you reside in a non-emission nazi state, do yourself a favor and eliminate the EGR and DPFE...and get it tuned accordingly.

If you reside in a regulate your ****ing balls state such as Kalifornia, be aware that a failing DPFE can be an intermittent stumble/surge/hesitation symptom and can be bad enough to get your ass killed.

Worst part is that the damn DPFE is tied into the VREF and WILL GROUND the electrical system causing the vehicle's PCM to blow out, possibly (if you're lucky), blow a fuse and both scenarios will result in a stall at whatever speed you are traveling at.

More info:

97-15A 7.3L DI Turbo

A VRef signal intermittently shorted to ground will cause the PCM to reset and will be indicated by an engine stumble or stall condition. This will cause the glow plug lamp and relay to recycle.

A VRef signal continuously shorted to ground will cause a no start condition.

Let me mention how UN****ING-NERVING it is when you're doing 70+ in the fast lane when the car stumbles, all the lights in the dash come on, the gauges begin to SWEEP from left to right (nervously glancing outside for UFOs and a beam of light from above, doing your best to honk and grab attention, fipping on the hazzards, swiftly maneuvering as best as possible with a stalled vehicle to the slow lane/shoulder wihout any power steering and limited braking). Damn this shit. I have my ****ing KIDS in the ****ing car!!

Some of you guys may recall my dead PCM/ECU thread from last year:

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/new-edge-cobras-51/885550-dead-pcm-ecu.html

As I chased down the possible culprit to my stumble/hesitation problem over the last 3-4 months, I've spent days/hours and lots of mula trying to sort out the issue. One rule I mostly adhere to is to reset the PCM/ECU after any engine or electrical upgrades/changes. My mistake from a few months ago was replacing the DPFE and NOT resetting the computer. After discovering no improvement with it, I convinced my Ford rep to take back the brand new DPFE (they normally do not allow this), stuck the old DPFE back on the motor and continued on with my quest to locate the problem. One of them being a sticking EGR that I replaced with a new one (helped, but did not completely solve my problem).

If someone has any of the above mentioned symptoms, delete your EGR system (if legal), or buy a ****ing new one. Remember to unplug the neg battery terminal, flip your lights on, depress the brake pedal to discharge all remaning electrical current in the vehicle to allow a PCM/ECU reset.

Tidbit I learned from another vehicle forum: All DPFE units are interchangeable (80's to current) OEM and OEM looking plastic only. Stay away from the metal housing ones. The difference between say a 1994 and a 2004 unit is a failure voltage of .06 and 1.0. The earlier ones detecting failure at .06.

Visual:

 

[01yellercobra]

Mine is in a box somewhere in the garage.

 

[Yossarian_Lives]

I had an issue with mine going bad earlier this summer, threw a p0401 code

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[VirtualSVT]

But the EGR system cools intake charges. Next you're gonna say to delete the pcv valve too.

 

[notchstang92]

I live in California's little brother state Massachusetts and once the car is 15 years old we don't have to pass emissions anymore, just visual and safety. Do you have that rule in CA?

 

[Steve@TF]

I live in California's little brother state Massachusetts and once the car is 15 years old we don't have to pass emissions anymore, just visual and safety. Do you have that rule in CA?

no. in fact someone who works in the automotive business recently told me that CA is considering making ALL vehicles pass smog. no more exemptions for older vehicles which is pre-74 now iirc. they used to have a cut off of something like 25 years or something but then they set a specific cut off date and now considering not date at all. so you'd have to somehow get your 42 pick up to pass smog :dw::nonono:

i also have heard about them doing mobile smog inspections where they pull over suspect vehicles (muscle cars, modified cars etc..) and smog them on the side of the road. plus visual inspections, by thorough (read anal) inspectors.

my buddy had to smog his LS3 vette recently for his registration. they required him to go to a STAR station (the state cert one) and they wouldnt touch his car due to his CAI. he had to go home and put the stock one on and go back. my regular smog guy could care less. as long as it doesnt have any CELs.

 

[thomas91169]

no. in fact someone who works in the automotive business recently told me that CA is considering making ALL vehicles pass smog. no more exemptions for older vehicles which is pre-74 now iirc. they used to have a cut off of something like 25 years or something but then they set a specific cut off date and now considering not date at all. so you'd have to somehow get your 42 pick up to pass smog :dw::nonono:

Yup, as of Jan 1st it will be scan test + visual only for cars 1995 (or 2000, I forget which) and newer. Older than that, you would have to pass the sniffer.

Dont expect the cost to drop, my buddy owns a smog shop and says while its $35-45 now itll only drop $10 even though the tech is doing 75% less labor by only having to do a port scan + visual.

Since catalytics did not come about until the 60's-70's I wouldnt worry too much about pre-cat cars, especially since they do not have any data/limits to hold you accountable to meet (IE no max hc/c02/etc).

i also have heard about them doing mobile smog inspections where they pull over suspect vehicles (muscle cars, modified cars etc..) and smog them on the side of the road. plus visual inspections, by thorough (read anal) inspectors.

This is bullshit. The state/carb/etc does not own any such items.

And we looked up actually doing this, a "mobile smog station that comes to you" when your car needs smog for people that work crazy hours and dont have time to take their car to smog (like mobile detail or mobile oil change people) but holy ****, we first would need to build such a rig, and then go through tons of red tape to get that business approved as a legit smog station. They dont like the fact the business has no physical address to know where to send the undercover agents to to verify the techs are doing their jobs correctly.

my buddy had to smog his LS3 vette recently for his registration. they required him to go to a STAR station (the state cert one) and they wouldnt touch his car due to his CAI. he had to go home and put the stock one on and go back. my regular smog guy could care less. as long as it doesnt have any CELs.

The tech was technically doing his job. Yours isnt. Your buddy should know before hand to spend the 5-10 minutes throwing the stock intake back on and not have to get denied and have to find another shop or have to do the swap anyways an hour later and come back. Pretty simple.

Smog techs get paid very well, low to mid $20/hr for not much schooling required. The fine for passing a car like his had he been an undercover agent, is huge, not only for him, but the owners of the shop. Its not worth it, my buddy will not touch modded cars either. He even had me put my Spyder back to stock as much as possible. If he gets popped, he gets his smog license revoked, gets fined, shop gets fined, shop can potentially lose their STAR rating as well.

 

[oldmodman]

I had to take a 10 year old Toyota to a referee station because one of the readiness codes won't reset after installing a new battery.

They passed it within 15 minutes.

But the stupid morons at the local Smog Check station won't even test a car with an un-reset readiness mode in the computer.

California doesn't just suck, it blows too.

 

[thomas91169]

I had to take a 10 year old Toyota to a referee station because one of the readiness codes won't reset after installing a new battery.

They passed it within 15 minutes.

But the stupid morons at the local Smog Check station won't even test a car with an un-reset readiness mode in the computer.

California doesn't just suck, it blows too.

The readiness monitors take certain amounts of mileage/driving conditions to run.

A ref station has the authority to run it anyways, a standard smog shop does not have this authority. I dont see where this is the fault of the "Morons" at the smog shop when its out of their control on what they can and cannot do legally.

We had to drive my girls Tiburon 1300mi AFTER purchasing it to get her catalytic converter readiness monitor to run. And even then, I had to download a pdf from Hyundai regarding what driving conditions must be met in order for the ECU to actually run the catalytic readiness monitor. I had to go from 0 to 55mph in 15 seconds, then hold 55mph with a deviation no greater than 2mph for 10 minutes, then decelerate from 55 to 0mph in 15 seconds, and then stop while in drive for another minute in order for it to run the monitor.

And FWIW, as of last january, you cannot have ANY readiness monitors open. Before that, you were allowed to have up to two readiness monitors open, meaning you would be able to pretty much do a ecu reset/batt pull and pass the obdII check after a 5-15min drive and be good to go. Now, the dealerships are having issues because after they do their trade-in maintenance, they gotta drive these cars 500-1000 mi to get the readiness monitors to clear before they can get the car to pass so they can put it on the lot. Or they are doing it like they did ours, put it on the lot, then say "come back in week or two and well run the smog test" and I come back every two weeks for almost 2 months and still no dice.

 

[Blown38]

i also have heard about them doing mobile smog inspections where they pull over suspect vehicles (muscle cars, modified cars etc..) and smog them on the side of the road. plus visual inspections, by thorough (read anal) inspectors.

VA puts vans on the shoulder of entrance/exit ramps to test emissions of vehicles passing by. If it detects a bad vehicle they take a picture of the tag and send you a letter to go have your vehicle emissions tested.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

VA puts vans on the shoulder of entrance/exit ramps to test emissions of vehicles passing by. If it detects a bad vehicle they take a picture of the tag and send you a letter to go have your vehicle emissions tested.

We have those vans in CO, but they don't send you anything if you fail. Rather, they send you a letter if you pass, letting you know that you don't have to go to an emissions test before renewing your registration. Got lucky with my old S4 by passing through one of the vans since it definitely wouldn't have passed at the shop.

 

[RX1Cobra]

Emissions is a joke in IL. I brought my eaton swapped no catted cobra and it passed with no problem. When you start it in the shop its smells like a lawn mower but it still passed. They didn't even pop the hood, in fact the girl made me start it cause she couldn't drive stick.

 

[ESVEETEE]

But the EGR system cools intake charges. Next you're gonna say to delete the pcv valve too.

Please explain to me how the EGR cools intake charge temperature?


It lowers combustion temperatures.

 

[jblood37]

Once again, I'm happy I live in Alabama. :dancenana:

 

[blacksheep-1]

I don't know how people can stand to live in California, nice country but waayy too many freakin' rules

 

[oldmodman]

The readiness monitors take certain amounts of mileage/driving conditions to run.

A ref station has the authority to run it anyways, a standard smog shop does not have this authority. I dont see where this is the fault of the "Morons" at the smog shop when its out of their control on what they can and cannot do legally.

We had to drive my girls Tiburon 1300mi AFTER purchasing it to get her catalytic converter readiness monitor to run. And even then, I had to download a pdf from Hyundai regarding what driving conditions must be met in order for the ECU to actually run the catalytic readiness monitor. I had to go from 0 to 55mph in 15 seconds, then hold 55mph with a deviation no greater than 2mph for 10 minutes, then decelerate from 55 to 0mph in 15 seconds, and then stop while in drive for another minute in order for it to run the monitor.

And FWIW, as of last january, you cannot have ANY readiness monitors open. Before that, you were allowed to have up to two readiness monitors open, meaning you would be able to pretty much do a ecu reset/batt pull and pass the obdII check after a 5-15min drive and be good to go. Now, the dealerships are having issues because after they do their trade-in maintenance, they gotta drive these cars 500-1000 mi to get the readiness monitors to clear before they can get the car to pass so they can put it on the lot. Or they are doing it like they did ours, put it on the lot, then say "come back in week or two and well run the smog test" and I come back every two weeks for almost 2 months and still no dice.

I downloaded the specs for resetting the particular monitor that wouldn't clear for me. Drove the car through the exact requirements three times over a two month period. Still didn't reset. The referee station passed it instantly. All the while cursing out the CARB. The guy (a Mustang nut. He had his procharged stang in the next bay). He was saying that the new readiness code reject rules would multiply his workload by at least ten times.

 

[mrlrd1]

I've replace hundreds (possibly thousands) of failed Ford DPFE sensors, most of which set a CEL with no driveability symptoms. A very low percentage caused lean stumbles on tip in, and only TWO out of the above mentioned quantity have resulted in a damaged PCM - both were on 01 Cougars. Open circuit, high resistance, short to power, short to ground; I've seen plenty of each. Never have I encountered what you claim though.

And to correct some more information that's incorrect in your post:
Ford has several different styles, and they're NOT interchangeable. The metal vs plastic you reference? The plastic sensor is the updated sensor, which supersedes the older style. The tube mount has been updated too, so that it incorporates a vent. Moisture kills these sensors, and the vent doesn't work. You don't need a datastreaming scanner to diagnose a failed DPFE. Just remove the thing. Tap the ports on your palm. Moisture present? Replace it. And stay away from aftermarket. I've seen dozens of those reading incorrect right out the box.

 

[006]

I've replace hundreds (possibly thousands) of failed Ford DPFE sensors, most of which set a CEL with no driveability symptoms. A very low percentage caused lean stumbles on tip in, and only TWO out of the above mentioned quantity have resulted in a damaged PCM - both were on 01 Cougars. Open circuit, high resistance, short to power, short to ground; I've seen plenty of each. Never have I encountered what you claim though.

And to correct some more information that's incorrect in your post:
Ford has several different styles, and they're NOT interchangeable. The metal vs plastic you reference? The plastic sensor is the updated sensor, which supersedes the older style. The tube mount has been updated too, so that it incorporates a vent. Moisture kills these sensors, and the vent doesn't work. You don't need a datastreaming scanner to diagnose a failed DPFE. Just remove the thing. Tap the ports on your palm. Moisture present? Replace it. And stay away from aftermarket. I've seen dozens of those reading incorrect right out the box.

My DPFE did not throw a code, only when I unplugged it is when a code came up, otherwise none.

Referring to Mustangs here my friend. Perhaps I should make it clearer. Other Ford models will have different shapes and hook-ups and the electrical connectors will be different...BUT the point here is that you CAN subsitute a different year DPFE. For example, I swapped in a new 1994-95 V6 mustang DPFE that I had laying around and it DID fix my problem and it IS working in place of a 99-04 Cobra DPFE, however the low pressure threshold is lower due to the voltage difference.

In regards to shorting out the PCM/ECU like I mentioned above, there is proof and it is noted via TSB:

BULLITT Archive Mustang TSB's and Special Messages

anybody remember special service msg DPFE - IMBOC

Special Service Messages:

Some 2001 Mustang Bullitt may exhibit a hesitation or stumble over bumps condition. This condition may be followed by the theft light flashing for a period of time, and diagnostic trouble codes (dtc's) C1284, U1147, U1262 may also be present. When diagnosing you may find no communication with the PCM. This condition may be caused by the DPFE wiring chaffing against the DPFE bracket shorting out VREF. Repair the wiring and re-route the DPFE wiring to run over the accelerator cable to prevent this condition from reoccurring.

Mark Wilson
FCSD PVT Program Manager, Mustang
Dearborn Assy. Plant

http://www.bullittarchive.com/Maintenance/Problems/

In my original post, you will see this link:

97-15A 7.3L DI Turbo

A VRef signal intermittently shorted to ground will cause the PCM to reset and will be indicated by an engine stumble or stall condition.

I experienced this problem DAILY until I replaced the DPFE. I think it's safe to assume what we all agree on: Moisture will kill these bastards and I am fully convinced that my old DPFE was shorting out due to moisture and it WAS grounding the VREF wiring...causing my (now fixed) problem. During this event, all the lights in the dash would light up, the theft light would flash rapidly, needles would be sweeping all the way across back and forth and the engine would stall.

If you are still sceptical, I am extremely eager to ship it to you, only if you promise to install it and drive with it for a week and if you don't get killed in the process, kindly report back and offer your experience :thumbsup:

 

[thomas91169]

I don't know how people can stand to live in California, nice country but waayy too many freakin' rules

No there aren't.

I know people here with builds that shit on most mon-emissions states.

I'd rather have to keep my catalytic installed and lose a whopping 5hp and mod my car the right way (ie so it looks stock/oem as much as possible and doesn't have any codes/cel's) than some state that has to deal with rust.

Ive yet to see getting smogged stop a single person from modding their car any differently than states that don't care. Some even do pull their cats, which just means they are risking federal offense (not states jurisdiction, removing factory smog equipment is a federal offence) just means that to pass the sniffer they gotta swap their cats back in. Big whoop.

Most people who mod this extensively know a guy that will clean pipe them anyways. And even less of an issue now that they are stopping sniffer testing on 2000+ vehicles.

 

[mrlrd1]

Referring to Mustangs here my friend.

OK?! Mustangs use all 3 types of Ford's DPFE sensors!!!! In fact I have an 05 4.0L in my shop right now with a P0401, and it uses a DPFE that is integrated with the EGR valve.