as im sure alot of you have seen, there are sometimes mark ups on these cars, as much as 3 grand. it is NOT, no matter what anyone tells you, mandatory for them to charge that. the sales man gets 25% of the mark up between invoice, and a small incintive for it being an svt product. so lets do the math: invoice is about 16.7kish, the sticker is 18kish, they dont make very much at all on the packages, so lets just say a base one for example, with a 1k mark-up. the sales man is going to make about 500 off that sale, not too bad. but its in his best interest to make that mark-up sell. so this is what you should do: get him alone in his office, or on the test drive, and ask him how much more he makes on the mark ups. tell him you will give him the difference(250ish for every 1000, so you would pay for the sticker price, and then give the sales man $250 outa your pocket). this is dishonest, but hey, this just saved you 750 bucks. i dont know abuot you, but im a business man, and if i can get things cheaper, i will. and dont be afraid to ask, whats the worst that can happen? they say no?
DEALER MARK UP!!!
- Thread starter SVT4LIFE
- Start date
sohowcome
Captain Obvious
If im not mistaken these two things also play a part, somebody correct me if Im wrong;
1. Dealer profit is not limited to what is on the invoice (Im assuming they make more than that with incentives and all)
2. isnt it true that a dealer spends an average of $450 per car, I think salesmen should actually make more per car, but that is my opinion.......
-Zach
1. Dealer profit is not limited to what is on the invoice (Im assuming they make more than that with incentives and all)
2. isnt it true that a dealer spends an average of $450 per car, I think salesmen should actually make more per car, but that is my opinion.......
-Zach
Yes, the dealer makes more than markup from invoice. There is also a "hold-back" on every vehicle which typically increaees based on sales volume. It used to be that hold-backs were small and MSRP markup from invoice was high; since everyone can find the invoice price now, they changed that so people will feel happy to get invoice or close to it. And there are additional fixed incentives at times for some vehicles that are not made public. There are also other incentives sometimes for the gamblers in the car business; for example, if they sell a particular model, they basically get to play a little "wheel of fortune" to get a random extra bonus. NO, I'm not making this up.
SVT4Life, salespeople will love you. Because you will be giving them an ADDITIONAL $250 for every thousand they were going to knock off anyway. The salesman has to get every sale approved and at any given moment there is a a certain minimum price that would be approved. The salesperson would rather he/she get some of your money than another dealer/salesperson make the sale. The salesman's main skill (you already know its not product knowledge, right?) is guessing how much you will pay and trying to get as much of that as possible. If you don't get the best price, its because you are a bad actor or he/she is a bad salesperson. If you do your job right and the salesman is decent, he/she WILL accept the lowest amount the dealer will approve. So work on your technique and try to find the best salesperson who isn't better than YOU.
My SVT is my 29th new vehicle purchase. From the begining I had to know the ins and outs so I could afford my habbit. I like cars and I don't particularly like salespeople because of thigs they have done to friends of mine. For example, someone who worked for me told a salesperson up front that "this" was the car of her dreams. So he talked her into paying full sticker on a car identical (except color) to one in their current newspaper add that was $2k cheaper. I really don't even have a problem with this ethically speaking since both parties are adults but when she went o pick it up, they proceded to tell her that they "forgot" that the car had another $2k in dealer upgrades done to it, and she paid that too even though she already had a singed contract for the originally agreed upon price. So to hone my skills, and waste sales dweeb time, I used to stop off at different dealers with no intent to buy a car and go through an entire negotiations. I know its not nice but I learned a lot, and got to scare a lot of salespeople S**tless on test drives. :burnout:
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az svt, the last few sentences makes you sound just like me. hehe, my hobby is to go out and test drive almost every car that i can, just for fun. ive bsed my way into a ferrari(with my dad's help), but still it was nice. around dallas, ive gone to about 7 different ford dealerships to look at the svt's, and though i have one on order, and im paying sticker, plus 250 to the salesman who has been my friend since childhood(he had to pull a lot of strings to get the car. the dealership already sold its quota). almost everyplace i have gone to, even after close to an hour of negotiations, still has a 1k mark-up. the reason is because they know that somene will buy it at that price, if not higher. if you do a search on yahoo for the svt focus, there is/was one listed at 25k in denver colorado. its outrageous, but somene wil buy it between the price of sticker and that. thats my 2 cents.
I don't doubt that. Like I said, there is a minimal the dealer will accept at any moment. That may or may not be under sticker. If there are less SVTs than buyers where you are, they might be over sticker, but they will always tell you that. I got mine on an X-plan, less than 5 miles from a dealer who swore they wouldn't let one go for less than $2k over sticker. Unfortunately, there are some dumb dealers. Just because they hold firm doesn't mean they will actually get their price. Like I mentioned in another post, when I bought my Syclone the dealer insisted on $2k over sticker. But he had 8 in a local market that didn't "want" that many. It took over 4 months to get them to sell it (at about $4k under sticker). I originally offered them $2k under sticker, so they ate the flooring costs for about 5 months and ended up with $2k less than my first offer. Not smart.
I'm glad you did get one. You will love it!
yeah, ive got a lot of plans for the focus, i had a contour and was modding it, but could never put power to the ground. what all have you done to your cyclone az? i have been looking around for one to buy that was in good condition to play with, but havent had any luck.
Syclone is stock. How did you know I still had it? It has about 41k miles. Like you say, its probably hard to find one that hasn't been well used. Before you buy, make sure you have the front dif and driveshaft checked. They are expensive and the ones that came on them either have or will fail. They have beefed both up so the replacement ones last longer.
I'm not modding the SVT either (at least nothing serious). I have a street legal track car that gets all that.
Click here for the Car and Driver test of the Syclone
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it said in your profile that you had a syclone. me and my gf are getting a focus, hers will be stock, mine will be far from
OK I have sold an SVT Focus with an MSRP of 19,065.00. Invoice is 18,088.00. That is a mark up of 977.00. I get paid 30% of that, which is 293.00. If my SVT customer doesn't think I am worth that then he can go somewhere else and hope his salesman is still there in 3 months.:thumbsup:
I think SVT4LIFE's numbers are just a little off. I don't get paid on anything under invoice. :shrug:
I think SVT4LIFE's numbers are just a little off. I don't get paid on anything under invoice. :shrug:
I have rarely paid over invoice and my average is under invoice for the 29 I have bought. Question: If I did get talked into paying so much for a car, why would I care if the salesman was still there in 3 months.
BTW: although it is seldom an issue because I have ZERO brand loyalty, FWIW I bought my SVT from the same dealer and salesman that I bought my Mustang GT from in '89 for under invoice.
sohowcome
Captain Obvious
good point, I try to stress that to my customers, they are also buying me, not just the product or service or warranty, but they are buying me as a representative for THEM against the company WHEN they have a service problem, they pay more for that but in the end I think it all works for the better.
We also have a holdback, but it really isnt, its kinda a gimmick to help push the customer into making a desicion at this time, instead of the future.
I bought a car the dealer had coming in unslod. It had all the options I wanted and it was one of 2 colors I would accept. I paid $300 UNDER Stciker. Not a great deal, but better that the 2K ove sticker we started at. DO NOT pay a penny over sticker for one of these cars! There are plenty out there.
sohowcome,
I see your point on paying for service. I will pay more for good, long term, service, but, I rarely see a salesperson at a dealership from one visit to another.
I was refered to a salesperson on a prior purchase from a friend of mine. The salesperson was a long time employee of the same dealership and was their "Superstar" He got all of the house deals and tons of repeat and referal customers. I chased this guy for a week to call me back, but I could never get through to him. He never returned a call. Well, one day I visited the dealer in person and a Sales Manager got me. He called over this sales person I was trying to get ahold of (they knew nothing of my attempts to get ahold of this guy) to give him my house deal. I told the manager, in fron of this salesperson, that if I had to deal with him, I would walk. Both seemed suprised, but the manager got me anther salesperson. I know my one sale didn't mean much to this guy, but it was my little act of revenge!
I see your point on paying for service. I will pay more for good, long term, service, but, I rarely see a salesperson at a dealership from one visit to another.
I was refered to a salesperson on a prior purchase from a friend of mine. The salesperson was a long time employee of the same dealership and was their "Superstar" He got all of the house deals and tons of repeat and referal customers. I chased this guy for a week to call me back, but I could never get through to him. He never returned a call. Well, one day I visited the dealer in person and a Sales Manager got me. He called over this sales person I was trying to get ahold of (they knew nothing of my attempts to get ahold of this guy) to give him my house deal. I told the manager, in fron of this salesperson, that if I had to deal with him, I would walk. Both seemed suprised, but the manager got me anther salesperson. I know my one sale didn't mean much to this guy, but it was my little act of revenge!
sohowcome
Captain Obvious
oh ooooooh nice revenge 
hehe way to get back at the "Star" sales man.I dont know why places seem to have just one guy who gets a abnormally high number of sales we have a guy here that is like that, he receives the cream of the crop leads and preferential treatment from the bosses. HIm and I do however split the call in leads (our equivilant of a house deal) ts all a big game in sales have to kiss a lot of asses to get where you want to be.
hehe way to get back at the "Star" sales man.I dont know why places seem to have just one guy who gets a abnormally high number of sales we have a guy here that is like that, he receives the cream of the crop leads and preferential treatment from the bosses. HIm and I do however split the call in leads (our equivilant of a house deal) ts all a big game in sales have to kiss a lot of asses to get where you want to be.
Ha!! Gee maybe I should suggest to the owner of my dealership that we shouldn't show any customer loyalty. If the customer comes in and needs a car to drive, while he/she is in service for something, I should tell them to go pound sand. :shrug: :thumbsup: :beer:
Maybe when thier car comes in from the factory we'll just call the customer to come get thier car just like we got it. Maybe Nordsrom's will start making thier customers get things for themselves. The employees could just sit by the register and ring 'em up. I am glad you got your cars for under invoice, what is the dealers name I would like to buy whatever SVT's he has left for the same deal. Really!!:thumbsup:
Peeps wonder why car salesman get a bad wrap.
T-Man,
Tonight I saw the local dealership had some FSVTs (one red one with graphics on it already brand new...wTF). and they had the sticker 19660, which i didn't think was too bad...then off to the side was this lil blue sticker which said "Dealer Adjustments $2000.....wtf is the $2000 for? That's the dealer markup?? WTF??
Tonight I saw the local dealership had some FSVTs (one red one with graphics on it already brand new...wTF). and they had the sticker 19660, which i didn't think was too bad...then off to the side was this lil blue sticker which said "Dealer Adjustments $2000.....wtf is the $2000 for? That's the dealer markup?? WTF??
No need. You already said the service department, the department you need for years (unlike a few minutes for sales) at your dealership won't do their job unless the salesman (you) kicks some ass; remember, that's why you are worth hundreds of the customer's money. BTW: I didn't say I didn't have dealer loyalty. I don't have BRAND loyalty. That's why there were 13 years between Ford purchases. If I had to count on my salesman making sure I got good service it would mean the dealership sucks big time. And even if every dealership is as bad as paint yous as, there is still no guarantee you will still be there when I needed service. My way is simpler and cheaper. Pick a dealer with a good service department and then squeeze the lowest price for the car. It works great.
Okay you must have an inovative dealership if the sales people do the initial vehicle prep; I hadn't seen that before. By get things for themselves, do you mean cups of coffee? I'd get my own to save $300 to some salesdroid who knows almost nothing about what he is selling. I rarely even talked to a salesman and I have done okay. I get to know the sales manager or owner if I can. Its a small world; you would be surprised how may of your friends know one or know someone else who does. Get to know them even if you have no plans to buy, you may someday. I have helped a dealership start up an internet department years ago. Now most have one although too many are just an email address for the fleet department. The good ones do very little more than quote a low price and fill out some paperwork. Many buyers have zero use for someone like you. Doesn't mean you don't serve a purpose for some buyers.
You don't sound glad :-D I've posted my Ford dealer's name in this and other forums. It's Lou Grubb Ford in Scottsdale AZ. As I stated my SVT was on an X-plan. The '89 (LX 5.0, not GT I just recalled) I got for under invoice the hard way. A week or so ago they had an SVT of every color on the floor with a window price just under MSRP for anyone interested.
There is not any magic in buying under invoice. You learn the ropes, you stay away from salesmen if possible, you go after the overstock situations when they occur, you take your time (I negotiated for 5 months once). You can't buy any car any time for under invoice but you can buy most cars at the right time.
peeps wonder; old hands know :burnout:
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Of course any dealer will try to get whatever they can. Nothing wrong with trying. Its the American way. It's possible, where you live there are more people who will pay that than there are cars i which case you can too or walk....or buy it in another place where supply and demand is on your side. There are LOTS of Ford dealers who are selling these for MSRP and under. You could even order one from another dealer and have it delivered at one near you, although the receiving dealer usually has a $150-200 fee. But dealers are also often wrong about the demand. Its an art not a science, plus some dealers are just incompetant like any in any profession.
My take on the SVT situation is that there hasn't been much marketting and the many informed buyers know about the recalls and quality hold and are cautious. IMHO The window for getting one of these cheap will close soon. When word of mouth gets out and some new magazine test (ones from February don't count since 95% of the readers don't even remember) coupled with possible production cuts due to the holds could make the 2002's scarce soon. 2003s who knows?
Actually I wanted to see if they wanted to sell some to me for under invoice. I am going to run out of them at current pace. 3 in 3 out and 7 more already spoken for that will be here any day.
AZ I noticed you said X-Plan. I see that that price is a little over the invoice amoutn. Did your dealer forget to get the $150 upcharge from you? Oops. Your gain:thumbsup: .
I just don't like when people start bad mouthing every dealer like we all operate the same. Heck we don't even test drive the cars until they are signed for. If you are wondering why, read your earlier posts about going from dealer to dealer. If we tested them they would all have 100 miles on them, and everyone would want a new one with no miles or as little as possible.
Hats off to you with your Focus. I am sure you will enjoy every minute of driving it.:beer:
AZ I noticed you said X-Plan. I see that that price is a little over the invoice amoutn. Did your dealer forget to get the $150 upcharge from you? Oops. Your gain:thumbsup: .
I just don't like when people start bad mouthing every dealer like we all operate the same. Heck we don't even test drive the cars until they are signed for. If you are wondering why, read your earlier posts about going from dealer to dealer. If we tested them they would all have 100 miles on them, and everyone would want a new one with no miles or as little as possible.
Hats off to you with your Focus. I am sure you will enjoy every minute of driving it.:beer:
I didn't say I got the SVT for under invoice, but yes they did apparently forget the price increase. I just knew it was 4% more than an A-plan and never asked to see the invoice. This salesman is one I had sent over 10 buyers to over the years and I trusted him. I knew I wouldn't beat an x-plan on an normal SVT purchase anywhere so I took it. They also waived a processing fee for state government paperwork but they said they were required to for the X-plan. This was my only x-plan ever so I don't know about that.
The value of a new car varies a lot from place to place. I don't doubt for a minute that there are dealers getting $2k or other extra markup on some of their SVTs. If you have more buyers than cars you can probably get more than MSRP and I am the first one to applaud that because it is the average profit that keeps the sales department afloat. If you sell a bunch of SVTs for over MSRP its easier to sell me an overstocked pickup under invoice and I won't feel guilty. ;-) I am an "opportunity" buyer. There are always several cars/trucks/bikes I would like to have and I get which ever one I can get the best deal on. Because the more I save, the sooner I can get the next toy, automove or otherwise.
Peace!
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