Daily Driving with aftermarket cams / monoblade?

[Streetpwr281]

Curious how many folks are daily driving their GT500 with aftermarket cams and/or monoblade throttle body? If you do are you still happy daily driving the car? PITA?

I daily drive my 2013 roughly 8k - 9k per year and am currently at ~ 770rwhp - 780rwhp w/ Gen 3 Whipple 2.9 @ 19psi, 1 7/8" LT's, O/R H-pipe, 155mm JLT, VMP TwinJet 67mm TB, ID1050X's, etc. Stock longblock except for IW balancer, Billet Oil Pump Gears, and Billet Timing Gear. The car is tuned using HP Tuners by Sam @ Coastal Dyno in Tampa and it truly drives like stock. I'm considering going with some moderately aggressive custom NSR cams and a Whipple Elliptical monoblade TB but concerned with impact on drivability and also if I'll be pushing my stock longblock too hard at that point.

Thoughts?

 

[Willie]

Thoughts?

I like pizza but I don't like beer...

Curious how many folks are daily driving their GT500 with aftermarket cams and/or monoblade throttle body? If you do are you still happy daily driving the car? PITA?

Okay, to the serious stuff. I do not drive mine daily but I am very content with the KB 168 mono. But I can tell you that the tune / tuner can make or break your experience with virtually any mono. More specifics below....

....I'm considering going with some moderately aggressive custom NSR cams....

Not that I am trying to incite a riot, but the term "moderate aggressive NSR cams" is an oximoron. The height where the stock springs should be replaced is about 0.450 - 0.465 ish on the exhaust side. That amount of lift, my friends, is not aggressive at all in my book. So there is something here that I just don't understand, so please educate me. Why in the world would you spend big $$$ replacing cams and limit yourself to his paultry lift? If you're spending the cash, then talk to a cam grinder with your goals and have them grind you the profile that will get you there and not think about such a low lift ceiling, and replace the springs! Why not?

Now my turn >> Tuning a cam. This is just an FYI, nothing more. Performance wise, there is nothing to change in the tune that will gain you more power. Driveability wise, there's a lot going on. I'll just name a few: 1) Idle speed, 2) rpm error from desired to NOT allow learning, 3) Spark value for idle control, 4) Idle air integrator, 5) Air flow multiplier.... bored yet? Bottom line: You need to find a tuner that knows all these things, AND know the processes for datalogging for specific tuning requirements, some I have just identified. OR learn how yourself, like I have. Best "mod" I ever bought, the investment in myself to do it myself.

....and a Whipple Elliptical monoblade TB but concerned with impact on drivability and also if I'll be pushing my stock longblock too hard at that point.

I won't go into whether you'd be pushing the limits as there are way too many personal factors that come into play.

As for the Whipple mono, if you can find a tuner with experience with this TB, then you're good as gold. My 168 KB drives like a stock TB. Plenty of responsiveness, smooth idle (800 rpms) and you'd never know this is what you are driving... until you open it up a little..... WOW!

Now, the most important thing to remember >> I love burgers too...

 

[RBB]

JDM cams and a KB 168 mono here as well. I don’t daily drive the car, but I’m generally driving it if the sun is out. No issues at all with the driveability, but there was a little bit of a learning curve and it’ll get jerky if you let the RPMs dip too low making low speed maneuvers in parking lots.

Lund handled the tuning and I feel like he did a good job considering it’s nothing more than a remote dyno tune.

 

[Streetpwr281]

Moderately aggressive NSRs means tamer than L&M NSRs which I consider aggressive as far as NSRs go based on duration @ .050”. Having spoken to a few custom cam designers thought is something in the 230/236 @ .050 duration compared to L&Ms 238/247 @ .050. Yes lift and ramp profile is limited by valve springs but I’m working on a daily driven stock rod combo where 2500 - 6500rpms is the useable range. No place for a cam to pull to 7000rpms+ unless I want a grenade w the pin pulled. Maybe this limitation in itself is the argument to just pass on upgrading cams but I was thinking a good custom cam for the intended application could still bring reasonable gains of maybe 40 - 50rwhp.

I’m not tuning. Have no interest. Sam has been great at Coastal Dyno. He tuned my 3.4 Whippled 2007 GT500 back in 2008 w one of the first Whipple monoblades. It’s been a long time but I remember it idling perfectly though tip in was good but not as perfect as stock. But I had stock cams too.



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[Catmonkey]

Deciphering cam specs on Ford modular cams is confusing if anything. It took me a while to understand some of the specs being thrown around. Most cam specs for pushrod engines are taken at .050" of tappet lift. This is not an easy spec to measure on a modular with conventional measuring devices on the engine. As such, most cam manufactures publish these specs at the valve. Because of the high rocker ratio, this inflates the duration specs ~15 from the traditional measurement at the tappet, or in our case at the cam.

I've heard the specs on the GT supercar cams to be 197*, obviously this is taken at the cam. We're also told these are the same cams in the GT500with the 5.8. If you assume this to be a true statement, the 13-14 cams probably have something like 212* at the valve. I don't think you can depart too far from that spec before losing the ability to cruise in the range of 1,600 rpm in 6th gear@ 70 mph. 80 mph will get you to ~1,800 rpm depending on tire and gearing. So if your Shelby is a highway cruiser, you will probably lose the use of 6th gear with "moderately aggressive" cams because that low rpm stability range is going to start heading north with more duration. So if you say your Shelby is a street car, it's something you need to consider. I'd venture to say with ~230* duration with even greater overlap is the exhaust duration spec is higher than the intake, you're car is not going to be happy with less than 1,800 to 2,000 rpm cruise speeds.

My last cam was Crower's stage II blower cams (222/222 at .050" valve) and I'd say it worked okay with 3.73s, but any noticable grade on the interstate needed a downshift to 5th gear. I installed something a little more aggressive, and I'm pretty sure it going to take 4.10s to make it happy on the highway. Either that or get a transmission geared with a more useful 6th gear. Jury is out on that decision.

Just some things to ponder in your final decision. A lot is going to depend on how you use your car and we will all have different levels of what we can tolerate from the car's original design specs. I also agree with Willie on valve springs.

 

[Streetpwr281]

Great info Catmonkey. The rational decision may be for me to forego aftermarket cams at this juncture given stock longblock, true daily driver, cost to buy/install, and already being at ~ 780rwhp. Low hanging fruit is probably the Whipple Elliptical monoblade TB and adding an E85 tune while maintaining the stock cams and probably seeing up to ~ 820rwhp. Given my usage, regardless of how much I lust for that cam lope, best decision is likely to pass on cams until I build the motor/make weekend only car.


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[Streetpwr281]

It also appears that not many if any GT500 owners truly daily drive their cars w aftermarket cams. I need to join the crowd and get a daily driver next year.


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[boduke0220]

I daily mine as well and have thought about instead of increasing boost, just adding cams/ported blower/E85/Headers. just increasing the efficiency of the engine so to speak!

 

[Streetpwr281]

Ported blower and Headers will improve efficiency/power and have no ill effect on drivability. Cams on the other hand will impact low speed/rpm drivability to some degree. E85 will kill your MPG which is why i was going to buy an Nguage to load both my 93 octane and E85 tunes and switch between them as desired for commuting/street driving and planned racing events.


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[Catmonkey]

Cams come in a variation of grinds and lifts that are suitable for whatever purpose you have for your car. If you're in it for just the lopey idle, know that it's accomplished with a lot of overlap (i.e. intake and exhaust valves open at the same time). The more aggressive the camshaft, the higher the peak it makes power and along with that goes the torque curve. What you gain up top, you tend to lose on the bottom. That's not an issue for someone that really races the car, but if it's a daily commuter, you're going to lose patience with it over time, especially in congested traffic areas.

With overlap comes a loss in boost pressure, and most people pulley to regain their previous boost level, which further increases power. Unless you understand how cams work and their characteristics, have a talk with your cam manufacturer and be honest with how you intend to use your car. They can help you make a realistic selection. Unless you want to run around in drag radials all the time, or your car is weekend warrior at mile races or the drag strip, anything north of 700 rwhp won't hook up anyway. That's not hard target to reach with these cars.

 

[Catmonkey]

Ported blower and Headers will improve efficiency/power and have no ill effect on drivability. Cams on the other hand will impact low speed/rpm drivability to some degree. E85 will kill your MPG which is why i was going to buy an Nguage to load both my 93 octane and E85 tunes and switch between them as desired for commuting/street driving and planned racing events.

With some of the newer blowers I don't know that porting will help out that much. If you're going to spend the coin for porting, look into porting the lower intake first. I think there are more gains to be had there before trying to stuff more airflow through the factory bends in the intake to the cylinder heads.

 

[boduke0220]

Ported blower and Headers will improve efficiency/power and have no ill effect on drivability. Cams on the other hand will impact low speed/rpm drivability to some degree. E85 will kill your MPG which is why i was going to buy an Nguage to load both my 93 octane and E85 tunes and switch between them as desired for commuting/street driving and planned racing events.


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Not worried about MPG. my commute is 18 miles round trip lol. E85 is plentiful in NC.

I did not think about that low speed drivability. with the 3.31's that would really suck. would probably need 3.73 atleast.

 

[Streetpwr281]

Yes I’m still on 3.31’s too. Personally I like the longer legs and ability to make highway pulls to 150mph+ w ease. Would definitely need 3.73s for drag-strip or w cams.


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[2011 gtcs]

Yes I’m still on 3.31’s too. Personally I like the longer legs and ability to make highway pulls to 150mph+ w ease. Would definitely need 3.73s for drag-strip or w cams.


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I'm in the same boat as you, I enjoy having the 3.31s, what mono blade T/B does your tuner recommend?

 

[Streetpwr281]

I'm in the same boat as you, I enjoy having the 3.31s, what mono blade T/B does your tuner recommend?

My tuner is not a huge fan of monoblades for daily driven streetcars but if pressed he prefers the Ford Racing Cobrajet mono or the Whipple Elliptical. Recognizing that the Ford Racing Twin 65mm and VMP Twin 67mm have the best characteristics for a perfect performer at all RPMs and loads on the street, in traffic, incline driveway, etc.


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[802gt500]

I don't dd my car but put 5-8k per year on. I have jdm ss cams. Love and have to have the cam lobe. Coming from a 347 with 608 lift and 268@50 duration now that was cam lobe but below 3500 was still running rough. The ss cams I lost between 5-7mpg and with headers gained 120 hp and trapped 8 mph in the 1/4 Car idles at 750 can cruise at 1000 in 6th no issue. Noticeable cam lobe but mild and very drivable. youtube ss cams and that made my mind up. The pros out weighed the cons for me.
My engine was apart so no better time to do cams. Degree ing the cams proved to be difficult for my engine builder. 2nd attempt they got it.

 

[RBB]

Yes I’m still on 3.31’s too. Personally I like the longer legs and ability to make highway pulls to 150mph+ w ease. Would definitely need 3.73s for drag-strip or w cams.


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3.31s will make the cams less tolerable for a DD. I live in a fairly rural area, not much traffic to speak of, so there's not a lot of stop and go situations. Heavy city traffic would be a nightmare with JDM cams and an aftermarket clutch. That is not something I'd put up with on a daily basis.

 

[Sielmo]

3.31s will make the cams less tolerable for a DD. I live in a fairly rural area, not much traffic to speak of, so there's not a lot of stop and go situations. Heavy city traffic would be a nightmare with JDM cams and an aftermarket clutch. That is not something I'd put up with on a daily basis.

X2. This was my exact situation. Low vacuum (7.5hg) as a result of these cams and my aftermarket clutch really made it a challenge driving in heavy traffic. I'm back to stock cams but I think milder cams (NSR) would be fine. I had the Crower stage 2's for a bit and my vacuum was 14.5hg. Driving was fine with these but I ended up pulling them while trouble shooting for other issues. I suspect The L&M cams would also be fine.

 

[Streetpwr281]

I’m thinking some custom Bullet Racing Cams in NSR form designed for 2500 - 6500rpms would be worthwhile and drivable. Won’t get the full peak power of JDM or L&M NSRs but would have better vacuum/drivability/mpg and maybe 60% of the gains. Trade off for a true DD.


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[Turbo98GT]

Not that I am trying to incite a riot, but the term "moderate aggressive NSR cams" is an oximoron. The height where the stock springs should be replaced is about 0.450 - 0.465 ish on the exhaust side. That amount of lift, my friends, is not aggressive at all in my book. So there is something here that I just don't understand, so please educate me. Why in the world would you spend big $$$ replacing cams and limit yourself to his paultry lift? If you're spending the cash, then talk to a cam grinder with your goals and have them grind you the profile that will get you there and not think about such a low lift ceiling, and replace the springs! Why not?

The higher the lift, the more wear and tear you'll have on timing components. Ideally for a daily driven street car, you want ~.475 lift and ~230/240 to 240/250 duration. If you don't street drive it, you can go with ~.525 lift with ~240 duration and be fine.