Cobra 2003?
- Thread starter Sadstang
- Start date
"How much does the 2003 coupe worth"
I don't even know what heck you mean!!!
unfortunately-yes
I think the 03' coupe is a little overpriced but then again i spent 32 large on a fluffed up f150. I wouldn't buy one right away. I would let the cobra hit the streets and absorb all the feedback from the people on this site. The 99' was a nightmare for ford manufactured or tuned the engines poorly. No 00's except for 3 that were destroyed. In 01' the cobra returned with the "correct" 320 ponies. They also came with a whole crapload of problems. Engine, transmission, and irs problems to name a few. If you go on to blueovalnews.com you will see that there many ford vehicles that have quality and manufacturing problems. I hope ford has ironed out the quality and dependability problems on the TERMINATOR (03 cobra) and it's all they promised. If it isn't your your out of alot of coin.
I think the 03' coupe is a little overpriced but then again i spent 32 large on a fluffed up f150. I wouldn't buy one right away. I would let the cobra hit the streets and absorb all the feedback from the people on this site. The 99' was a nightmare for ford manufactured or tuned the engines poorly. No 00's except for 3 that were destroyed. In 01' the cobra returned with the "correct" 320 ponies. They also came with a whole crapload of problems. Engine, transmission, and irs problems to name a few. If you go on to blueovalnews.com you will see that there many ford vehicles that have quality and manufacturing problems. I hope ford has ironed out the quality and dependability problems on the TERMINATOR (03 cobra) and it's all they promised. If it isn't your your out of alot of coin.
Believe me if any1 in this world had so much problems with Ford and the 1999 Cobra no1 would top my list....i have 6 gear boxes installed after being ruined for major problem such as the car being stuck in the R gear...the car almost cought a fire after 2 weeks from buying teh car for bad wiring...no to mention the 2 times engine problem that cost me more than 5000$ after my warranty being voided....
Cobra 2003
The current chassis on which the '03 is based is being pushed WAY past its capabilities. The original '94 for which debuted this chassis had 215 hp... Moreover, adding a supercharger to a small displacement engine does not sufficiently address the lack of low-end torque. Nothing like more cubes. Add to this the poorer handling from the additional 150+ pounds over the front wheels (due to iron block and s/c hardware) plus the potential for issues with detonation as with the current engine and who knows WHAT the in-field experience will be when the same architecture is pushed to the max. This does not even take into account the antiquated interior finishes, HVAC systems and substandard fit and finish coming out of the current production line!
Really, does a half second gain 0-60 (in a straight line) on the '01s warrant the extra coin with all this baggage? I would wait it out until '04 when the new chassis is introduced with the larger engine (5.4L?) rolling off the new assembly line to get a really improved car. Then you'll get at least the same performance as the '03s, much better handling, higher quality fit and finish AND you will have earned a return (or delayed paying interest) on the money for an extra year or two (if the intro is delayed until '05)!
The current chassis on which the '03 is based is being pushed WAY past its capabilities. The original '94 for which debuted this chassis had 215 hp... Moreover, adding a supercharger to a small displacement engine does not sufficiently address the lack of low-end torque. Nothing like more cubes. Add to this the poorer handling from the additional 150+ pounds over the front wheels (due to iron block and s/c hardware) plus the potential for issues with detonation as with the current engine and who knows WHAT the in-field experience will be when the same architecture is pushed to the max. This does not even take into account the antiquated interior finishes, HVAC systems and substandard fit and finish coming out of the current production line!
Really, does a half second gain 0-60 (in a straight line) on the '01s warrant the extra coin with all this baggage? I would wait it out until '04 when the new chassis is introduced with the larger engine (5.4L?) rolling off the new assembly line to get a really improved car. Then you'll get at least the same performance as the '03s, much better handling, higher quality fit and finish AND you will have earned a return (or delayed paying interest) on the money for an extra year or two (if the intro is delayed until '05)!
>>to get a really improved car. Then you'll get at least the same performance as the '03s, much better handling, higher quality fit and finish<<
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>If< the new design is introduced(at this point it appears to be a 50/50 chance that it will be), what indication is there that the fit and finish will be of a higher quality. If the previous models were lacking in quality, and most assuredly to be carried on by the '03, then why would the '05 be any different?
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>If< the new design is introduced(at this point it appears to be a 50/50 chance that it will be), what indication is there that the fit and finish will be of a higher quality. If the previous models were lacking in quality, and most assuredly to be carried on by the '03, then why would the '05 be any different?
I have actually heard the new chassis will not be introduced until the 2005 model year. I also agree that there are no guarantee fit and finish will be any better. I have seen a sketch of the new mustang (2004 or 5) and it looks wedgey. It's a matter of taste but I like the way the current stangs look. I guess I could get used to the new look. Would have too if I wanted one.
Robert
Robert
Cobra 2003
The only reason to speculate that fit and finish will be improved is due to changes being announced by Ford itself.
According to an article in the March 12, 2001 Blue Oval News, "...sources close to Ford Motor Company's assembly plant realignment team have (said) that Ford will transfer all Ranger production to the Dearborn Assembly Plant ("DAP") in 2003. The Dearborn Assembly Plant currently produces the Mustang; however, its production will transfer to the Auto Alliance Mazda-Flat Rock Plant in 2003." (source http://www.bonforums.com/plants/plant_closings031201.htm)
While the tiemtable may have slipped some, Ford has recently confirmed that DAP will phase out completely the Mustang build, which is to be relocated to a more modern plant. The key issue here is that DAP is antiquated - and it shows in the products coming out the door. Otherwise, why would Ford be spending billions (and they are) to renovate it?
Given that the new Mustang will share the platform being used for the Lincoln and Thunderbird, a good way to somewhat experience the potential quality would be to look at and drive the Thunderbird. As it's a convertible, the coupe version would only be better. In this way, not only can the ride be checked out but the likely interior systems, fit, finish and materials can be assessed. As these are all base systems and design technology shared across the same platfrom, just check out the huge strides made in all the mentioned areas against the current 'Stang.
granted, the Thunderbird is pitched to a bit segment than the Mustang. However, the effect of 20 years of development is still HUGE - as I was reminded today when I picked up my rental base-level new Focus while the Cobra is in the dealer shop. I was shocked to see the positive difference in interior fit, finish, materials and HVAC systems this econobox has compared to the Mustang. This is all coming from the same manufacturer!! So, it's a good bet that the Focus and Thunderbird box the ends of what can be expected dynamically and fit, finish and materials-wise from the new platform.
This, then, gets down to the key issue for me: Depreciation. When you combine such huge improvements in the base product (chassis, interior, etc.) with the impact of a truly high performance large cube DOHC engine, everything that came before will pale. And, I will very likely REALLY want one. Since many people will, the impact on depreciation for an '03 (or whatever the final year old-platfrom model will be) and earlier will be HUGE. And, there is nothing more depressing to seeing 10 large (which will be only about 25% of the all-in '03 cost) evaporate almost overnight when the new models hit. Now, that would not be so bad if the product was not desired - but who would not want something that has:
- huge improvements in chassis and powertrain
- real handling and significant 0-60 improvements (can we say easy - not stretched) ~4 sec times?)?
I would also bet that the hot selling nature of the current style would indicate that they will not want to mess too much with a good thing. Moreover, given the care they have shown with another icon, the GT40, I don't think they would screw things up.
So then, depreciation becomes a real cost when the you get the keys of the new car. Unless you're livin' large, it takes quite a while to save up that kind of dough. Personally, when spending that kind of coin, I want to be able to keep the thing long enough to get some real value out of it - in addition to looking good and going fast...
The only reason to speculate that fit and finish will be improved is due to changes being announced by Ford itself.
According to an article in the March 12, 2001 Blue Oval News, "...sources close to Ford Motor Company's assembly plant realignment team have (said) that Ford will transfer all Ranger production to the Dearborn Assembly Plant ("DAP") in 2003. The Dearborn Assembly Plant currently produces the Mustang; however, its production will transfer to the Auto Alliance Mazda-Flat Rock Plant in 2003." (source http://www.bonforums.com/plants/plant_closings031201.htm)
While the tiemtable may have slipped some, Ford has recently confirmed that DAP will phase out completely the Mustang build, which is to be relocated to a more modern plant. The key issue here is that DAP is antiquated - and it shows in the products coming out the door. Otherwise, why would Ford be spending billions (and they are) to renovate it?
Given that the new Mustang will share the platform being used for the Lincoln and Thunderbird, a good way to somewhat experience the potential quality would be to look at and drive the Thunderbird. As it's a convertible, the coupe version would only be better. In this way, not only can the ride be checked out but the likely interior systems, fit, finish and materials can be assessed. As these are all base systems and design technology shared across the same platfrom, just check out the huge strides made in all the mentioned areas against the current 'Stang.
granted, the Thunderbird is pitched to a bit segment than the Mustang. However, the effect of 20 years of development is still HUGE - as I was reminded today when I picked up my rental base-level new Focus while the Cobra is in the dealer shop. I was shocked to see the positive difference in interior fit, finish, materials and HVAC systems this econobox has compared to the Mustang. This is all coming from the same manufacturer!! So, it's a good bet that the Focus and Thunderbird box the ends of what can be expected dynamically and fit, finish and materials-wise from the new platform.
This, then, gets down to the key issue for me: Depreciation. When you combine such huge improvements in the base product (chassis, interior, etc.) with the impact of a truly high performance large cube DOHC engine, everything that came before will pale. And, I will very likely REALLY want one. Since many people will, the impact on depreciation for an '03 (or whatever the final year old-platfrom model will be) and earlier will be HUGE. And, there is nothing more depressing to seeing 10 large (which will be only about 25% of the all-in '03 cost) evaporate almost overnight when the new models hit. Now, that would not be so bad if the product was not desired - but who would not want something that has:
- huge improvements in chassis and powertrain
- real handling and significant 0-60 improvements (can we say easy - not stretched) ~4 sec times?)?
I would also bet that the hot selling nature of the current style would indicate that they will not want to mess too much with a good thing. Moreover, given the care they have shown with another icon, the GT40, I don't think they would screw things up.
So then, depreciation becomes a real cost when the you get the keys of the new car. Unless you're livin' large, it takes quite a while to save up that kind of dough. Personally, when spending that kind of coin, I want to be able to keep the thing long enough to get some real value out of it - in addition to looking good and going fast...
P51, I don't disagree with what you say. It all sounds well thought out. However, I would suggest you wait until the year after the new body comes out before you buy, just so they will have all of the bugs worked out (there will be bugs). If I could talk myself into waiting unitl 2005 or 6 I would but since this will be my first SVT, I will be making the leap into an 03.:beer:
Robert
Robert
Cobra 2003
Robert,
I know how you feel - I absolutely needed a new car in '01 (i.e. had NO car) and went with the '01 vert - it was my first new car in, hmmmm..., over 20 years and my first SVT. I really was a newbie when I bought it. Since then, I've become a bit more familar with how all this works - if only because with all it's faults, it's a great looking and good driving machine.
However, with the benefit of hindsight and now being in the trade-in game, the perspective has changed a bit. This analysis really addresses the trade-in decision but also applies to a straight new purchase decision if you're thinking about keeping the car for a long time.
All that said, I'm sure you'll enjoy the '03!
Best,
Marc
Robert,
I know how you feel - I absolutely needed a new car in '01 (i.e. had NO car) and went with the '01 vert - it was my first new car in, hmmmm..., over 20 years and my first SVT. I really was a newbie when I bought it. Since then, I've become a bit more familar with how all this works - if only because with all it's faults, it's a great looking and good driving machine.
However, with the benefit of hindsight and now being in the trade-in game, the perspective has changed a bit. This analysis really addresses the trade-in decision but also applies to a straight new purchase decision if you're thinking about keeping the car for a long time.
All that said, I'm sure you'll enjoy the '03!
Best,
Marc
I know what you mean.... After the highly refined C5 Vette came out the poor ol' antiquated old technology 63 thru 67 C3s are virtually worthless;-) ;-)
Let's be fair and keep the comparisons apples-to-apples. By and large, we are talking about people trading in mid-90s and up drivers for new drivers. How many C5 customers were trading in their C3s? It's the same as asking how many potential '03 customers are thinking of trading in their original '65-'70 Shelby Mustangs.
The real comparisons for the Chevy are the C4 to the C5. Did the C4s hold their value against the C5s? Not likely. Now, perhaps there is a case for R Models holding their value but even that is debatable. The '95 R was pushing 300HP and 365 lb/ft normally aspirated for a 0-60 time of 5.4 (mgf claim) and a 14.1 quarter at 100.0 mph. That was achieved by deleting sound deadening, radio and rear seat.
Would you pay, today, the original asking price of $35.5k for a driver with that kind of performance/amenity deal? Even as a collector, it is a very tough sell.
The real comparisons for the Chevy are the C4 to the C5. Did the C4s hold their value against the C5s? Not likely. Now, perhaps there is a case for R Models holding their value but even that is debatable. The '95 R was pushing 300HP and 365 lb/ft normally aspirated for a 0-60 time of 5.4 (mgf claim) and a 14.1 quarter at 100.0 mph. That was achieved by deleting sound deadening, radio and rear seat.
Would you pay, today, the original asking price of $35.5k for a driver with that kind of performance/amenity deal? Even as a collector, it is a very tough sell.
Check those times. 5.2/13.23 @ 106.2 (MMFF Nov 99). Ford factory claims 13.8 @102 (conservative)
-SVT Mustang Cobra Recognition Guide, Shreiner and Sessler
If I was a serious open-tracker, I would choose a low mileage '95R over a Terminator, in a heartbeat... That 351 is exceptional.
Re: unfortunately-yes
I didn't even know official pricing was out yet. Damn computer! :bash:
quality
I am by no means bashing the 03' cobra. All I know about these cars are the little i have seen on the street and the tons i've absorbed on this site. It seems that the 98' cobra was the best cobra of the new edge cobras. Not considering the IRS, it was the best sounding, performing, and most dependable. My friend has on still stock down to the air filter and it is the meanest sounding cobra i have heard. you can't kill his motor. He beats the living shit out of this thing and it wont die! It has 80+ grand on it. The 99' was a disaster, no 00' and the 01' has embarrasing tuning and quality problems. Ford really should have had the new mustang ready this year. When the newness wears off the 03' i hope all the cars will stay away from the service garage and be worth every penny. I want one but i will wait for the MACH1 or the 05'.
thanks, J-mart:lol1:
I am by no means bashing the 03' cobra. All I know about these cars are the little i have seen on the street and the tons i've absorbed on this site. It seems that the 98' cobra was the best cobra of the new edge cobras. Not considering the IRS, it was the best sounding, performing, and most dependable. My friend has on still stock down to the air filter and it is the meanest sounding cobra i have heard. you can't kill his motor. He beats the living shit out of this thing and it wont die! It has 80+ grand on it. The 99' was a disaster, no 00' and the 01' has embarrasing tuning and quality problems. Ford really should have had the new mustang ready this year. When the newness wears off the 03' i hope all the cars will stay away from the service garage and be worth every penny. I want one but i will wait for the MACH1 or the 05'.
thanks, J-mart:lol1:
Re: quality
I'd second that :-D. I've got 44K, serious miles on my stock (K&N/Flows) '98 and it is, by far, the most dependable, solid automobile I have ever owned...
I think how well a car sounds or performs is sometimes a matter of perspective. We have all owned what we deem to have been a truely great car, and I'm sure most of us have purchased what we believe to be a lemon. It's true the 98 was a very good year. We need not mention the 99. I rank it third on the Ford disaster list behind the Firestone tires and the Pinto. Fit and finish has been horrible on the 01. I'm really hoping (Looking down at all of his digits crossed) that with no 02 Cobra that they had time to really get it right this time.
Cheers,:beer:
Robert
Cheers,:beer:
Robert
Re: quality
I thought "new edge" referred to the '99 up stangs?
I thought "new edge" referred to the '99 up stangs?
Of course you are right quick01snake. We got a little off thread here. We were discussing the 03 and the differences between it and the 01, 99, and 98 years.
Cheers, :beer:
Robert
Cheers, :beer:
Robert
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