Clutch issues - guessing cable, quadrant, or both

[jmichalicek]

Ok, 2 more weeks of class, then I begin on fixing this '99 Cobra up I mentioned recently. First up is the clutch.

Short version: original clutch lasted until 2014 I want to say (which tells me the problem probably isn't me). Had it replaced when the throwout bearing went with a McLeod Street Pro. Throwout bearing went within 6 months. Had the throwout bearing replaced. That lasted another maybe 1 year and started chattering and eventually squealing. Had the replaced a couple of months ago and went back to an OEM clutch at the advice of the new shop I decided to use. Their thought was that the McLeod clutch was just too heavy for other parts involved and was killing things. Well, it's chattering and squealing at me again.

The chattering tends to get quieter after I have driven the car awhile and everything has warmed up. Occasionally the chatter goes away completely. If I pull back on the pedal, push the clutch, and let it out fast it to make it adjust then frequently helps with the chatter. I can also frequently feel that the point where the clutch is grabbing changes.

So, I know very little, but am tired of paying people to not do things right (for what I've paid for clutch work in the last 2 years, I could have fixed most of the other things I want to), so first up is fixing this. Based on what little I know and have read, that old ass cable is probably just worn out and the quadrant may be as well.

Is there something else I should also be checking first? Is there an easy way to determine which one, if it is just the cable or the quadrant? Should I just pay up and do them both at the same time, since it's not all that expensive and doesn't look likely to be much more work?

Recommended kits for the replacement? I am currently looking at the maximum motorsports cable/quadrant/firewall adjuster package.

It's 1 week until finals, I have one more non-final test, plus a chemistry lab... so not a ton of time for tearing thngs apart to get pics/answers right now. I'm just trying to make sure I'm looking in the right direction so that I can have things lined up to get to work the second school ends and I have free time again.

 

[01yellercobra]

I don't miss chemistry. You have my condolences on that.

What bearings where they using? If it wasn't a Ford or Timken bearing I can't say I'm surprised they kept going out. If you had the cable replaced in 2014 it isn't considered old at all. As long as you went with a good Ford cable. It is possible the quadrant is worn out. They don't last forever. I don't know the specs on the Street Pro, but if it's stiffer than stock that can cause issues with the stock quadrant as well. The stock quadrant doesn't usually play nice with stiffer clutches. I've used the Steeda quick release quadrant, UPR quick release, and the MM set up. I currently have the MM because it's what came with the car. I wasn't a fan of the MM firewall adjuster to be honest. It uses friction to hold it's adjustment. And it seemed like I was always tweaking the adjustment. The Steeda and UPR firewall adjusters had a lock nut. I liked those, but if I ever replace the adjuster I'm going with the Fiore micro-click. As for the quadrant it's really hard to screw up a piece of aluminum. That's my theory at least. The biggest thing is to make sure to use spacers (washers) to align the quadrant with the cable. I went through a couple cables because the quadrant moved to one side and the cable started riding on the edge which took it out.

If the bearing is making noise I would go ahead and make plans to replace it. Get a Ford or Timken this time and double check the clutch install. Make sure there's not weird wear marks on the pressure plate fingers.

 

[jmichalicek]

I suspect the cable was never replaced and it is the original 1999 cable. The bearing which went in with the McLeod was probably the bearing which came with that clutch. The replacement for it I'm sure was budget whatever aftermarket. The latest will be whatever came with the Luk clutch kit, which my understanding is that this should be the same as the the Ford one.

I put way too much faith into paying a professional to do good job and just trusted one for awhile until I started discovering all of the half assed shit (and couldn't afford to keep paying someone else as the car slowly went downhill). So I am just now learning to deal with this stuff on my own. When it comes to specifics my answer is all too frequently "I don't know, I paid someone to have it done right and worry about that for me, but it probably wasn't done right".

As to the clutch itself, I don't think I have a good way of inspecting it directly. I don't really have the tools/place to pull the transmission off, etc. or am I stupid and that's not required? So I'll just assume that it'll need replaced in the near future and do it when I've got the cash. I'll get the cable and quadrant out of the way now so that at least it's done, further issues are slowed down, etc.

Is there anything else I need? Just buy a quadrant, ford cable (not the adjustable one), and a firewall adjuster? No other little parts that it's just assumed I'll know I need to do the job? I see Steeda (and FRPP) has a double hook quadrant and the description mentions that the two hooks are so that you can use a firewall adjuster or adjustable cable... is there some difference in the quadrant which I need to look out for? Or just get a double hook and know I'm all set?

 

[01yellercobra]

In order to replace the throw out bearing you'll need to pull the trans. You'll be able to tell if the fingers have a weird wear pattern. The TOB should only touch a certain part of the fingers.

That should be all you need. If you get the double hook you'll be fine. I've never used one though. Some people like having the choice of placement.

 

[jmichalicek]

Thanks for the help. Time to get this stuff ordered and then if I'm lucky, get the cable/quadrant/adjuster sorted out the weekend after finals. Maybe, anyway... that is mother's day weekend. TOB replacement will have to wait a bit longer before I can deal with it, but I figure getting the rest sorted asap can't hurt and maybe I'll get abnormally lucky and everything will be back in good working order.

Now time for chem test prep. Final normal chapter test got made a take home, so I need to get started on that so that I can start prep for the final which is cumulative over 2 semesters. yuck.

I'll be back soon after that with more questions depending on what seems most critical to fix next and what my budget is looking like.

 

[01yellercobra]

Good luck on the test.

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[railroad]

Throw out bearing are not designed to turn constant engine rpm. Key word, constant. It sounds like the bearing did not have clearance to disengage completely with the clutch released. If your flywheel has too many hot spots even with re surfacing can contribute to chattering. If you go back in, buy yourself an Alum flywheel. Ford put the alum one in the 03-04s. You will get a new surface and some better throttle response.

 

[jmichalicek]

I'll keep that in mind railroad. It's definitely something I've considered when having the clutch done anyway, but resurfacing was so much cheaper. But you're right at some point I will need a new flywheel and probably sooner rather than later at this rate.

I called the shop that did the clutch most recently just awhile ago. I realized I was being stupid and this clutch and work are, hopefully, under warranty... not sure how the root cause probably being other parts will play into it, but it falls into the shop's warranty period currently. I gave them a call today and will have it in to them Monday and so probably be getting another clutch and TOB out of it. I'm going to see if I can put off actually having those put in until after I get the new cable/quadrant in so that I'm not driving around for a week wearing it out again but I figured it would be best to report it and get it in to them before I started fiddling with things so that there's no way they could claim I caused it.

 

[jmichalicek]

New clutch, shift fork, and pivot ball (under warranty from the previous installation). New cable, steeda quadrant, and steeda adjuster went in today. I have NO IDEA how to get this thing adjusted correctly now, though. From underneath the car, it looks like the TOB is against the fingers.

It is hard as hell to turn the adjuster and I've got it turned clockwise very far already. I've attached pictures of the TOB (as best as I could do) and the adjuster to verify I've got it in right and so you guys can see where I've got it.

So, treat me like I'm stupid, because I am. Should I be turning this thing clockwise or counterclockwise to pull the TOB away from the fingers? Is there anything else I might have wrong here? I've got the clutch cable connected to the furthest away hook on the double hook quadrant.

 

[01yellercobra]

Turning it clockwise should move it away from the TOB. Is there a set screw you need to loosen before turning it?

 

[jmichalicek]

Ok, that's what I thought with turning it, which means it can't go much further.

There is a screw which is supposed to just slightly adjust tension of turning it. It turns really easy when I don't have the clutch cable connected, though. It's like the cable is pulling so hard against it that it's hard to turn. I guess in the morning I'll unhook the cable again, screw it all the way in, and see what happens.

Is there any chance I've got the cable attached to the wrong hook on the quadrant? I am thinking maybe I was supposd to hook it to the closer hook now after reading the instructions again. That would give me a bit more slack in the cable.

 

[jmichalicek]

Yep, had the cable on the wrong hook. I'm still not 100% sure everything is correct, but it's as correct as it's going to get. If the TOB is off of the fingers, then it is BARELY off of them. I've got play in the pedal and slack in the cable, though, and can turn the adjuster as I expected to be able to. Even with enough slacke that I can pop the cable off without moving the fork, the TOB is in the same position, so it's not going any further. There's plenty of room for it to back off more, but it won't do it on its own.

The other thing I noticed is that it feels like there is WAY less pedal travel than the the stock quadrant. Maybe it's just the generally different feel from new cable + new quadrant, though.

Had some other odd stuff come up while doing this, but that's a post for a different day, because I've got to go do mother's day stuff.