Centrifugal and open track days?

[draxxus131]

I really didn't know where to place this, but I figured SVTP would be a good place to start since majority here on the boards love forced induction. I was just recently mulling over track builds on various forums and noticed a very interesting thing or maybe I am just blind. I have only seen two cars (shelby,5.0) tracking with a centrifugal blower, I find this interesting. One key reason, I was always under the impression that centrifugal blowers tend to run much cooler compared to a turbo or eaton/roots designs. Correct me if I'm wrong, they generally have less belt slip as well due to the inherent rev/psi range. Are centrifugal superchargers just not that widely used yet for track use? Less heat soak, less heat transfer, drivability, less parasitic sap. I would figure these would be more widely used.

I'm personally not all that big about drag racing anymore, those were my teenage years. I fancy me some grip racing! Any input would be great on this subject, or maybe even actual track results with a road course? I appreciate anyone taking the team to read this.

 

[dirtyd88]

A guy in central Texas, idk if he's a member here, but he recently did a procharger setup on his '13. He has since decided to ditch the procharger and go N/A because he was having heat and cooling issues with his car in the Texas heat doing open track event as Texas World Speedway and a few other places. I will PM you his build thread so I don't hotlink to another forum.

 

[mhyjek]

If you do some cooling mods like radiator oil cooler the air one you should be fine. I have no personal track experience but will tell you on the streets of mexico with 95 temps and running several back to 40 to 150+ my oil gets hot and stays hot my coolant though stays low end of normal. I will be putting on the boss oil cooler and I should be good but I know if I was to track it that would not be enough. To be honest the power delivery from my setup would be perfect for the track it makes peak tq at 6k and pk hp at 7+. My setup is the beefcake paxton special with, and Boss IM, and headers, magnum xl 2.66 1st, 4.10 rear gears.

 

[Voltwings]

power =/= speed on a track if you cant do anything with it. Granted it matters to some extent, just look at the anemic BR-z/ FR-s, but i'd rank power lower than suspension / brakes / tires. If the rest of your car cant keep up, all you've done is wasted money and time in my opinion.

 

[mhyjek]

power =/= speed on a track if you cant do anything with it. Granted it matters to some extent, just look at the anemic BR-z/ FR-s, but i'd rank power lower than suspension / brakes / tires. If the rest of your car cant keep up, all you've done is wasted money and time in my opinion.

I agree with your thinking and power is less important than ability of the car to translate the power it has onto the track as well being able to shed off the momentum ie brakes. If the car is setup appropriately I think a centri would work well and be more fun than NA. That will take some money and calibrating but I would rather drive a gtr on the track more so than btrz, especially after I leave the track.

 

[Thalilbear02]

Funny enough last week I made a blog post specifically about that subject. I went with Vortech specifically because I road race, and having instant torque like you get on twin screw units doesn't bode well for those wanting to put power down out of the corners. Having a smoother power band that eases onto the power will significantly help as it has me.

Product Showcase – Vortech Supercharger for 2013 Mustang GT

Hope that helps out, but I was thinking the same thing you were thinking when I made the decision to go with Vortech, and yes Vortech specifically, the blower is more efficient than the Paxton at the power range we require. For drag cars, sure add on 1000HP+, but for road racing you can't really do with much more than 650-700 without it really needing a professional to handle the car.

 

[Voltwings]

I agree with your thinking and power is less important than ability of the car to translate the power it has onto the track as well being able to shed off the momentum ie brakes. If the car is setup appropriately I think a centri would work well and be more fun than NA. That will take some money and calibrating but I would rather drive a gtr on the track more so than btrz, especially after I leave the track.

one also cost $100k more than the other, which brings us full circle haha, like you said, it will cost money.

Granted, most of us will never go to this level as a privateer, but i saw a video not too long ago (may try to find it) of how Nissan Set up the new GT-R Nismo with more aero to handle the new levels of power they added, and allll the work they put in to make it a package deal.

Found it, im pretty sure this was it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QbSPWYZm28


Dont get me wrong, i would love it if someone gave me a Centri-blower for my car on the track, but as it sits, i've got more than enough car to handle all motor...

 

[dirtyd88]

With the newly found heat and stress you are adding to the motor road racing under boost, you better already have a built motor or be planning to put one in fairly soon. Whether you go boosted for track or not I think depends A LOT on where you will be racing the majority of the time and the weather and atmospheric conditions that will be present there.

A guy in central Texas is now ditching his procharger setup he built for road racing because the heat was too much for the motor to take down here.

 

[Voltwings]

well... theres obviously a grey area, because you run the risk of underspinning the blower and running it out of its effeciency, but imagine a blower at like 525-550 whp. Low boost, low timing, low rpm... THAT could be useful, because you're really not running the blower hard enough to generate "much" heat (probably only needs 5-6 psi), and you can make that power at 6500-7000 rpms, so you're not really winding the motor out. Idk, i'm still happier all motor and plan to continue building as such, but that could also be kind of cool. Granted, for supercharger money @ 525 whp, you're almost at cobrajet / cams for half the price you know... expect now you have to spin higher to make the power. Its just a back and forth that never really ends.

 

[dirtyd88]

Just food for thought.

http://www.dfw50s.com/showthread.php?t=3483

 

[draxxus131]

Thank you dirtyd88 on the PM, sad to say though I was hoping it wouldn't have heat issues. After all you are staying in boost at all times which generates a ton of heat. I was hoping for a different outcome. But as mentioned before with the proper amount of money you can keep temps down! I could imagine an external cooler for just the supercharger and another external cooler for just the oil and coolant separately .

 

[Voltwings]

Then you've added a bunch of weight and complexity (all off the nose of the car mind you) and arent much better off.

 

[mhyjek]

Thank you dirtyd88 on the PM, sad to say though I was hoping it wouldn't have heat issues. After all you are staying in boost at all times which generates a ton of heat. I was hoping for a different outcome. But as mentioned before with the proper amount of money you can keep temps down! I could imagine an external cooler for just the supercharger and another external cooler for just the oil and coolant separately .

http://www.cooltechllc.com/Boss/Boss_Oil_Cooler.shtml


http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=101
A good radiator and ford racing fan.

should be more than enough. I would spray meth preblower and at throttle body and you will keep air temps at 50 degrees plus keep blower from adding any heat to under the hood with about 100lb weight penalty but it will be 50/50 weight add.

 

[dirtyd88]

Thank you dirtyd88 on the PM, sad to say though I was hoping it wouldn't have heat issues. After all you are staying in boost at all times which generates a ton of heat. I was hoping for a different outcome. But as mentioned before with the proper amount of money you can keep temps down! I could imagine an external cooler for just the supercharger and another external cooler for just the oil and coolant separately .

No problem man. Just wanted to share that with you. I know it's discouraging, but I'm sure it would be possible to make it work. In cooler climates it might be doable where keeping the IATs and IAT2s lower is much easier than here in Texas. But that would have to be tried out to see.

...I would spray meth preblower and at throttle body and you will keep air temps at 50 degrees plus keep blower from adding any heat to under the hood with about 100lb weight penalty but it will be 50/50 weight add.

Meth kit isn't a bad idea at all.

 

[TheVikingRL]

http://www.cooltechllc.com/Boss/Boss_Oil_Cooler.shtml


http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=101
A good radiator and ford racing fan.

should be more than enough. I would spray meth preblower and at throttle body and you will keep air temps at 50 degrees plus keep blower from adding any heat to under the hood with about 100lb weight penalty but it will be 50/50 weight add.

I have the Cooltech kit and would recommend it if you can get past the cost. Still much cheaper than a rebuild. Even on an NA build these cars can run high oil temps when tracking without some sort of cooler.

 

[draxxus131]

I live in So Cal at the moment, so temperature is not too big of an issue, despite dare i say GLOBAL WARMINGGGGGGGGG! BAHAHAHA, still hard to justify it meh.

 

[Mike Rousch]

I will add a little to this, I work with quite a few guys in the road racing world and i can tell you stay N/A. If your dead set on doing boost go with the TVS hands down. There is 0 issues with controlling a Roots/twin screw in a open track setting. Hope that helps!