Canton Oil Pan Problem

[JoeJ]

Hey Guys,

I was up at Texas World Speedway last Thursday and after my last session I noticed drops of oil leading into my garage area. I looked under the car and I had a large puddle of oil. The Canton oil pan was leaking at the rear weld seam. I taped it up and loaded it on the trailer and took it to Kenny Bumbera shop. He found that the back weld had been worn down due to scraping when the car bottomed out. Hmmm..The pan was not dented or bent, just the weld worn down and a leak developed at the seam.

Kenny drained the pan, plushed it out with solvent and welded it back up on the car. The only other way was to pull the engine and install a new pan..Not a lot of fun. He then build a skid plate and bolted in front and rear, so it could be removed if damaged. The rear of the Canton pan is about 1" lower than the cross member.

I was bottoming out the car going thru the transition zone from the front straight into turn one and again when I crossed the oval from the back part of the track. Hopefully, the skid plate will prevent future damage.

I though I would let everyone know that there is damage potential to the canton pan if you bottom out. It will scrape on the back of the pan prior to hitting anywhere else..hmmm

It could have been a lot worse if I had dumped all my oil out on the track. Everything is now fixed and the Cobra R is ready to rock and roll again...
:beer: :beer:

 

[kevin]

Originally posted by JoeJ
Hey Guys,

I was up at Texas World Speedway last Thursday and after my last session I noticed drops of oil leading into my garage area. I looked under the car and I had a large puddle of oil. The Canton oil pan was leaking at the rear weld seam. I taped it up and loaded it on the trailer and took it to Kenny Bumbera shop. He found that the back weld had been worn down due to scraping when the car bottomed out. Hmmm..The pan was not dented or bent, just the weld worn down and a leak developed at the seam.

Kenny drained the pan, plushed it out with solvent and welded it back up on the car. The only other way was to pull the engine and install a new pan..Not a lot of fun. He then build a skid plate and bolted in front and rear, so it could be removed if damaged. The rear of the Canton pan is about 1" lower than the cross member.

I was bottoming out the car going thru the transition zone from the front straight into turn one and again when I crossed the oval from the back part of the track. Hopefully, the skid plate will prevent future damage.

I though I would let everyone know that there is damage potential to the canton pan if you bottom out. It will scrape on the back of the pan prior to hitting anywhere else..hmmm

It could have been a lot worse if I had dumped all my oil out on the track. Everything is now fixed and the Cobra R is ready to rock and roll again...
:beer: :beer:

thanks for the warning joe.

i guess this means you are going to fast:lol: :lol:

 

[ac427cobra]

Thanks for the heads up Joe.

When I first got under my car and studied it, I saw that the front edge of the pan hung slightly lower than the "K" member. I fabbed an aluminum plate to protect the leading edge of the pan in case of an off road excursion. You know, kind of like the ones some of the guys that visit this board have had. ;-)

It hangs about 3/4" below the "K" member (which equates to about 1/2" below the pan). So, No Doubt. that thing would be slapping the track hard on transitions between ovals and infield courses. I have not been on one yet so I'll have that covered when I do.

Thanks,

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

 

[kevin]

Originally posted by ac427cobra
Thanks for the heads up Joe.

When I first got under my car and studied it, I saw that the front edge of the pan hung slightly lower than the "K" member. I fabbed an aluminum plate to protect the leading edge of the pan in case of an off road excursion. You know, kind of like the ones some of the guys that visit this board have had. ;-)

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

you don't need to worry if you aim for the kitty liter:-D

 

[ac427cobra]

Originally posted by kevin
you don't need to worry if you aim for the kitty liter:-D

Kevin:

I don't know if this is going to be a bad omen for me or not but I have decided to fab pull hooks for the front and rear of the car for next year, just incase?:uh oh:

I have managed the entire season to not stick a single wheel off of the track. (that is with the exception of the exit of the Carousel at RA I nip off every now and then) In a cloud of dust and hardy "Hi-O silver" Oops, showing my age again!!:lol:

I know by not going off course means I have not been pushing the envelope very hard. Or at all for that matter, but it was my rookie season. I plan on stepping up the pace a little next year. I have to to keep up with Brian you know!!

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

 

[1995COBRA-R]

Originally posted by JoeJ
Hey Guys,

I looked under the car and I had a large puddle of oil. The Canton oil pan was leaking at the rear weld seam..
:beer: :beer:

Joe,
I am not so sure that you caused this leak. I had a Canton road race pan leak on me at it's first race. I patched it up with some J.B. Weld (highly recommended in a race track tool box). The next time I pulled the motor I took it to a racer who does magic with welding. He indicated that he had welded "hundreds on Canton pans". It seems they have a bad rap for a leak developing in the seam areas. Since that time, I had another leak on me.

 

[Flying Fred]

Thanks for the post Joe. One could debate whether or not the transitions of a banked track contributed to the problem. Who knows? From my experience at Michigan International, "bottoming out" can easily happen - and obviously it can't be good for the car. That's one of the reasons why I have no interest in "NASCAR" type tracks.

 

[ac427cobra]

Originally posted by Flying Fred
That's one of the reasons why I have no interest in "NASCAR" type tracks.

Fred:

I agree 100% but wouldn't you just want to take a few full laps sometime?!?:shrug:

Team Raisin anyone?? Pucker Factor!!:lol: :lol: :lol:

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

 

[Flying Fred]

Originally posted by ac427cobra
Fred:

I agree 100% but wouldn't you just want to take a few full laps sometime?!?

We only did "1/2 laps" on the MIS oval - as is the case with Texas, Nashville and others. Yeah, a few full ones would be cool but I don't know of any tracks that do that. Then again, after a few laps I would probably be bored with it so it wouldn't be worth the haul.

 

[1995COBRA-R]

Originally posted by Flying Fred
That's one of the reasons why I have no interest in "NASCAR" type tracks.

Fred, You may want to reconsider. I've done Daytona several times (Daytona 24 hour course). It was big fun, but the fast way out of the infield into (nascar) turn one does sometimes cause the car to bottom if you hit it right. But, going into nascar turn 2 to the bus stop and then to through turn 3 and 4 is a complete blast. Like Bruce said, you better have some big "Pucker Factor". When you cross the start/finish line and go back into the infield you have an easy transition. The g-forces on the banking are unbelievable. Your brain is constantly telling you to back off, but you will find the banking will hold you. After a day of track time, you begin to think of the famous race car drivers that have been on the track. You wonder and then fully appreciate the preparation required to run 24 hours at the track. You will also find a new admiration for the NASCAR guys that do this two/three abreast for 500 miles. To me, it was priceless!

 

[Flying Fred]

Doc, I did this for 2 straight days at Michigan International, so I know what it's like. Jeff Lacina was instructing for Track Time and convinced me to come there because running on the banked track "was a blast". I agree that doing the high speed banking was cool, but the novelty of it wore off quickly - mostly because the transition was rough and the infield course sucked. These types of tracks will never excite me when compared to great road courses like Road America, VIR, etc. No need for me to reconsider - that's just my preference. I also doubt I will find a new admiration for NASCAR drivers as I don't watch it - except for a rare occasion when they do a road course (the Glen or Infineon). I won't disagree that they are good drivers - I'm just not interested in NASCAR.

Sorry for getting off the topic (again) Joe.:bash:

 

[JoeJ]

Hey Fred,

No problem. It is interesting to see what people think about high speed ovals and infield courses. It is a blast going into turn 1 at TWS. You just know you should brake before you cross the transition zone because you are traveling sooo fast. But actually you can just lift or hold throttle and then start braking prior to turn one. Hmmm..It is pucker facter big time..lol...
I really think the track owners could smooth it out a bit and the jolt would not be half as bad...

I am still looking forward to going to Nashville and running the high speed oval and infield in April at the Mustang 40th Anniversary event.. Fred you should come and join us in the fun or at least the comradely of all the open track guys.

 

[Andy M]

Joe is right about that one! Problem is though.. at TWS, the transition is so abrupt, it unsettles the car, as well as it causes a bottoming to occur (especially on the R's), which is what ultimately caused Joe's problem with the hole in the oil pan.

I agree with you Fred!! Give me a good road course (a real one!!) any day.. over a NASCAR oval/road course. Although the straight line speeds are fantastic at TWS, I would forgo the top speed (and damage to my car!!) to run at MSR, Hallet, or MAM... because those are real road courses... technical and not nearly as harsh on the car... because there are no transitions from oval to road course.

I also agree with you Fred on the NASCAR thing.. about the only time I will sit and watch an entire NASCAR race is when they run the road courses. I have to admit though, when I watch them run those courses, I am simply amazed at how fast and how well (most of them at least) run these courses. Heck, Jeff Gordon impressed the crap out of me when they ran Infineon earlier this year!

 

[ac427cobra]

I agree with Fred to a certain degree about Nascar. I used to be a huge fan in the 90's. We used to get garage passes and the whole nine yards. Suite hospitality and meeting drivers, owners and sponsors. No Doubt, it was the $hit.

Most Nascar fans don't care for the road courses and I'm with the rest of you guys and think they are the highlight of the season. But, before you say you don't like Nascar circle jerk you should see a Bristol or Richmond night race. (on TV doesn't count!!) THAT is entertainment!! Since I joined all of you track maniacs Nascar is pretty boring to me right now! :burn:

Andy:

I also am amazed at how those guys get a 3400 # car around a road course! Did you ever catch the "foot cam" on Ricky Rudd's feet?!? That guy is fun to watch!!!

I guess the closer you are able to get to it the harder it bites you?

My Nascar trips will be taking a back seat to tracking next year, No Doubt. I'm getting real tired of the politics in Nascar and Ford was at such a disadvantage this year it was a miracle Matt was able to clinch the "Cup". The only Ford in the top ten!!:dw: :cryying: :whine:

 

[1995COBRA-R]

Sorry Joe, off subject (again)

Originally posted by Flying Fred
Doc, I did this for 2 straight days at Michigan International, so I know what it's like.
These types of tracks will never excite me when compared to great road courses like Road America, VIR, etc.
I also doubt I will find a new admiration for NASCAR drivers as I don't watch it - except for a rare occasion when they do a road course (the Glen or Infineon).
Sorry for getting off the topic (again) Joe.:bash:

Fred, Sorry I didn't know you had done a super speedway. I agree 110% that the pure road courses are the most fun and demanding for the driver. In order to get a good lap time on the speedways you must go very fast on the banking. Everyone is slow in the infield. You just need balls to fly the banking. Road courses require much more skill to turn good lap times. My favs: Rd Atlanta (home track), VIR (full course), Mid-Ohio, Sebring (full), The Glen (full w/ boot), Rd. America. I'd love to do the west coast soon.

I watch every car race I can. I enjoy the 12 hour at Sebring which I attend (this year is the 52nd annual). The 24 hour in Daytona is very historic. I think the run-offs from Mid-Ohio are on this week. I enjoy Grand-Am, F-1, ASA, American LeMans, SCCA, and the 24 hours of LeMans (every June). I enjoy NASCAR. Maybe it is a southern thing. I record The Glen and Infineon and watch them again during the winter. Please don't flame, but I even like watching the NASCAR trucks. I don't care for any sport that uses only one ball: it takes two to go racing.

 

[Big Daddy]

Originally posted by JoeJ
Hey Fred,

No problem. It is interesting to see what people think about high speed ovals and infield courses. It is a blast going into turn 1 at TWS. You just know you should brake before you cross the transition zone because you are traveling sooo fast. But actually you can just lift or hold throttle and then start braking prior to turn one. Hmmm..It is pucker facter big time..lol...
I really think the track owners could smooth it out a bit and the jolt would not be half as bad...

I am still looking forward to going to Nashville and running the high speed oval and infield in April at the Mustang 40th Anniversary event.. Fred you should come and join us in the fun or at least the comradely of all the open track guys.

Well Joe I'll finally get to see you again! It's been quiet a while since MAM! I'll look forward to seeing that R out on track! Maybe we can play a little tag while we're there?? :thumbsup:

 

[JoeJ]

Hey Big Daddy,

Oh yes, we can do a bit of playing bumper to bumper..I am sure looking forward to seeing all my friends again..

 

[stang99svt]

I actually had my canton pan dent inward and crack coming back from SEMA. I've gotten mixed reports about either the qaulity of the CR pan and the spacing of the pan of the kmember.

 

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by stang99svt
I actually had my canton pan dent inward and crack coming back from SEMA. I've gotten mixed reports about either the qaulity of the CR pan and the spacing of the pan of the kmember.

I was going to add a Canton pan to my 95 since the K-member was going to be out anyways. The Canton dealer actually talked me out of it. He mentioned that leaking and poor quality as the main reasons to stay with the stock pan.

Brian

 

[NJ2000R]

until I read this thread I've heard nothing but good about canton pans....I have one on my 427 and no problems with leaks so far....Joe's failed from bottoming out, and others have become dented from interference with suspension components, I would think any welded pan would fail under the same circumstances....maybe their quality level has dropped recently?
:shrug: